Like I said, I believe the mistake lies with LFL, not FFG.

Well like I say, take it up with Disney then. But the idea that the ships aren't to scale is simply wrong, because they are to scale based on the canon sizes. If that doesn't match up with the movies... FFG didn't really have much choice in the matter, they did what LFL told them to do.

My issue is tinfoil hat comments like were made above, how FFG lied about the scale so they could make the A-Wing bigger...

It basically boils down to the source matieral being inconsistent, because they really didn't care at the time that a bunch of really anal retentaive geeks would obsess about it. They just made cool looking spaceships.

Don't kill the messenger, though! I'm right here with you guys

I do blame Disney (well, LFL, it wasn't Disney then was it?). But the idea that the ships are to scale is simply wrong, because they aren't to scale based on what's in the films. If that doesn't match up with Disney's internal database then I don't really have much choice in the matter.

For the record, I can't afford to buy Disney, sorry. Could fix a lot of problems that way

No the ships clearly are not to scale going by the films.

Going by some arbitrary numbers someone came up with for the tech specs needed for some star wars magazine or RPG sourcebook they may well be 'in scale' but anyone with eyes can see that the current A wing, X wing and Y wing simply ar enot in scale with each other. Just look at the cockpits of the three 'one man fighters' for a start.

its not a big problem really is it? They are toy spaceships and the scaling is iffy.

My initial thought was just that it was a shame as it makes the Y wing look weedy and the A wing look like its on steroids when it would have been really easy to do 'film scale'.

we can list this under 'fantasy world problems'

For all we know they've had all of these conversations with LFL. If LFL won't approve a model that doesn't meet their specs, what options does FFG really have? Have a fit and not release an A-wing model because of... reasons? Just not produce one of the FOUR rebel starfighters that were actually shown in the movies? Really?

Or do they say "Well, that's the official ruling, so we'll go with it" and risk the frothing wrath of a good dozen (or so) internet power-nerds with nothing better to do?

If it really offends you so deeply, find a smaller model and mount that on your stand or move on and find a better game...

Yeah, but VandorDM, LFL is lying. So is FFG. The internet armchair experts are totally right, can't you se? They have a mat painting to prove it.

I think we should start calling them "Scale Truthers". Their conspiracy theories get more and more elaborate. Next thing you know they will be showing us grainy pictures of diagonal A-Wing cuts, and saying "I'm not claiming anything, just asking questions."

It's simple. LFL sets a size. FFG makes it that size. Done. FFG has no choice in the matter. LFL is the keeper of the fiction. If they say an A-Wing is that size, an A-Wing is that size. Don't agree? Prove them wrong, show me a real A-Wing. Since there is no real A-Wing, LFL has decided the size. Now they have one. Across all the fictional creations A-wings will be a consistent size. Things were not that well thought out 30 years ago. Again, don't like it, take it up with LFL.

For all we know they've had all of these conversations with LFL. If LFL won't approve a model that doesn't meet their specs, what options does FFG really have? Have a fit and not release an A-wing model because of... reasons? Just not produce one of the FOUR rebel starfighters that were actually shown in the movies? Really?

Or do they say "Well, that's the official ruling, so we'll go with it" and risk the frothing wrath of a good dozen (or so) internet power-nerds with nothing better to do?

If it really offends you so deeply, find a smaller model and mount that on your stand or move on and find a better game...

Where's this "frothing wrath" and deep offence? Honestly, some people on the internet don't seem able to distinguish disagreement from rage.

Wow, you're an angry young man...

(not directed at Maz)

I have honestly never really understood attempting to use the films as a precise guide for scale. Yes, they are the originals, but they are films, designed to be cool and exciting, not technical guides.

we can list this under 'fantasy world problems'

Sure, to me they all look right on the table, but I don't pay much attention to proper scale on the movies, I just don't care enough to compare the X-Wing on Dagoba to the A-Wing in the hanger... I've never paused the movie so I could measure the windows on a ISD so I could figure out the size of the ship, for example.

That said, I'm not so sure you can really use the movies, because as has been pointed out even they aren't consistent. So what you'd have to have take one shot of all the ships on the screen at the same time, in some sort of placement so you could actually compare them all to each other... Then have someone in charge declare that the template to base all other sizes on...

Or we can go with the numbers LFL came up with. How or why they came up with those numbers isn't really relevant, because those are the canon numbers.

Feel free to disagree with them if you want. But those are the sizes FFG had to work with. So perhaps we should call FFG's game Canon scale as opposed to Movie scale?

I love also how people are such die hard fans they get so defensive about a causal conversation.

I learned a long time ago that anything lucas said is subject to change at a whim.

He'll swear blind in one interview 'it was always thus' and then when it suits him decide that 'actually i always meant this'.

Being fairly into star wars since the early 80s i've learned to take LFL stuff with a pinch of salt.

Luke and Leia are in love.. no hang on its his sister, vader killed his dad, no hang on vader *is* his dad... etc etc

changing the size of a spaceship is the least of their faults

So perhaps we should call FFG's game Canon scale as opposed to Movie scale?

I think that's it exactly.

Feel free to disagree with them if you want. But those are the sizes FFG had to work with. So perhaps we should call FFG's game Canon scale as opposed to movie scale?

OR we can use common bloody sense and look at the size of a human pilot. Now that pilot is going to be between 5'7 and about 6'3 as thats just the size people are. Look at the size of a person in the cockpit, its not a massive stretch of the imagination to work out roughly how big that fictional toy/ship/model is around them. If you do that the A wing model is clearly quite bigger than it should be.

Abritary canon numbers aside.

If LFL printed that Luke Skywalker was 3 foot tall would you be cool with that because it was the number printed even if it clearly didnt make sense

By the way , its my day off and i'm bored, ive got all the time in the world to argue the toss about something im not really *that* bothered about so I apologise if people are getting angry here.

I love also how people are such die hard fans they get so defensive about a causal conversation.

That's not the issue for Hexis... He happens to know the people at FFG, and understandingly gets a bit worked up with people are seeming to attack them. I'm not saying anyone is attacking FFG, well iP kinda was.... but he's the only one really.

I learned a long time ago that anything lucas said is subject to change at a whim.

True, the whole "No Gredo always shot first" is more then a little hard to swallow.

I like FFG

My gaming buddies work for FFG (not on Xwing, on 40k RPG stuff)

FFG were very kind and replaced my ships.

Doesnt make them infallible though

OR we can use common bloody sense and look at the size of a human pilot.

Yeah but look at the image that Hexis posted of the Falcon cockpit... Clearly comparing a set model to the size of a human pilot doesn't always work.

It's like in TMP, where Liam Neeson cost Lucas serveral million dollars, because he is 6' 4", opposed to Ewan McGregor who's only 5' 10". Because Liam was 4-6 inches taller then everyone else, they had to add a extra 4-6" on every backdrop, after they had built it.

So no even looking at a human next to the ship doesn't always give the correct answer because even the set models aren't always the same size.

Doesnt make them infallible though

Join us in the rules form and you'll see just how fallible they can be.

OR we can use common bloody sense and look at the size of a human pilot.

Yeah but look at the image that Hexis posted of the Falcon cockpit... Clearly comparing a set model to the size of a human pilot doesn't always work.

It's like in TMP, where Liam Neeson cost Lucas serveral million dollars, because he is 6' 4", opposed to Ewan McGregor who's only 5' 10". Because Liam was 4-6 inches taller then everyone else, they had to add a extra 4-6" on every backdrop, after they had built it.

So no even looking at a human next to the ship doesn't always give the correct answer because even the set models aren't always the same size.

Yep I agree with all that , and i also really appreciate your contribution to this convo being in the spirit of the OP i made, just casual conversation not getting too het up

I just *personally* (and it would seem i'm not alone here) think that while little scale issues are not that much of an issue (i mean come on, i play 40k with pre 90s citadel.. scale isnt even a concept there... fist the size of your head.. oh go on then) but with a game as beautifully made and constructed as xwing its just annoying that my two favourite types of fighter for the alliance look bloody odd side by side

As for 'attacking ffg', seriously these forum are positively sycophantic compared to the stuff i had to deal with working for GW UKs community and events dept

No ones issued a death threat yet

Out of interest are the micro machines awings a bit smaller?

I know a lot of there stuff is slightly smaller than FFG ones, might make a good alternative if they are.

Scratch that, i've just looked its a really poor cast/mould.

No ones issued a death threat yet

What? My guy hasn't been by yet to make you an offer you can't refuse?

Bloody 'ell. Now I have to deal with that as well. It's hard to find good enforcers ...

but with a game as beautifully made and constructed as xwing its just annoying that my two favourite types of fighter for the alliance look bloody odd side by side

I'm of the opinion that the A-Wing looks right, I've seen people post pictures of MicroMachine A-Wings next to FFG X-Wings and IMO they look bad. Something that small just doesn't look right to me.

We can debate the arbitrary numbers vs movie images, but before that would work we'd have to have some sort of frame of reference, something we could say is the definitive correct image to base everything on. Because LFL naturally used every trick they could to make things look good on screen and save as much money as they could. So it's hard to take the movies as evidence since they aren't completely consistent themselves.

Although we do have this historical photo that we could consider...

Iff the licence holder gives you "official" measurements that's what you have to work with, ffg cant have gotten it wrong if they are going off the measurements given to them.

Now LFL may very well have the wrong stats but they also have final say on what's produced so why is FFG getting the blame, its not their IP they don't have final say on the dimensions they can only control the game rules.

But really there's an upper limit on how much you can charge for small plastic toys and if the A-Wing were to movie scale it'd be a right rip off.

If it really bugs people remember in space it's next to impossible to estimate the size of something because its in a void there are no landmarks you can use to judge perspective so the A-wing is just closer to you than the other ship kk?

Scratch that, i've just looked its a really poor cast/mould.

You could 3D scan an FFG one and 3D print your own at a smaller scale!