That's it! I'm quitting this game! A few ships are slightly off-scale! What is this? Attack Wing?!!??

That's it! I'm quitting this game! A few ships are slightly off-scale! What is this? Attack Wing?!!??

ARGH it's GW all over again BETRAYAL!

Are you *sure* thats painted and not models against a matte painted background?

Yes I am sure, because this debate has happened about 15 times now on these boards. The artist Michael Pangrazio who painted that has come out and said at one point that he had no reference material when he painted it.Again, FFG had full access to all the models ILM used when making the movies, and they based the models in the game off of that. So the A-Wing is the correct scale.

Calling the ILM models the correct scale is not correct.

The models were made to be filmed so they had to be fairly big in order to have enough detail to look realistic.

The best way to find the closest to 'correct size' is to see it next to a human.

There is a in-cockpit shot, that would be the best place to workout the 'correct' size

Pictures to prove my point. Notice how in all of these pictures the pilot has only a little bit of space around them in the cockpit. There is no giant bubble around them like the FFG model would have to have if it was at the same scale as the x-wing and y-wing.

In a logical world these images should settle this debate...

Either FFG is lying or they're incompetent. Their a-wing model is not the correct size. Also, note that when they made a big deal about having access to the original models it was back when the game was first created, and they seem to have done a good job with those models.

There is a third option you are not considering: FFG was given the measurements by LFL's story group directly. Having actually discussed this with a number of the developers at FFG, I actually know that's what happens for all the ships. The same drama came up with the HWK. That's correct too, despite all the internet rage about it. LFL maintains an official size internally, and FFG bases their model off that size. It's not just a question of access to the movie models, it's also the official numbers.

So if it's "wrong" it's LFL who has it wrong. Go ahead and argue the point with Leland Chee.

If you need any proof of the uselessness of movie references for "true" scale:

I think Chewie's toes would get cold out there.

In a logical world these images should settle this debate...

In a logical world, this debate would never happen in the first place.

Either FFG is lying or they're incompetent. Their a-wing model is not the correct size. Also, note that when they made a big deal about having access to the original models it was back when the game was first created, and they seem to have done a good job with those models.

There is a third option you are not considering: FFG was given the measurements by LFL's story group directly. Having actually discussed this with a number of the developers at FFG, I actually know that's what happens for all the ships. The same drama came up with the HWK. That's correct too, despite all the internet rage about it. LFL maintains an official size internally, and FFG bases their model off that size. It's not just a question of access to the movie models, it's also the official numbers.So if it's "wrong" it's LFL who has it wrong. Go ahead and argue the point with Leland Chee.If you need any proof of the uselessness of movie references for "true" scale: I think Chewie's toes would get cold out there.

Nah.

He is a wookie, all that fur evolved to deal with the hard vacuum of space.

The only way to get a close to correct size would of been to measured the full size X-Wings and Y-Wings from ANH, from what I've read all of them were destroyed before even ROTJ finished filming. The prop models are the best way to get all the details correct, but not the scale since even those weren't made to scale. They were making props for a movie, not exact replicas to a certain scale. They only had to look good against a background. Size didn't matter, only perspective (that's what she said!).

I don't think it's the A-Wing's size that is the problem. It's the Y-Wing that is too small, as is the TIE Phantom.

There is a third option you are not considering: FFG was given the measurements by LFL's story group directly.

I've considered this option, and it still means that FFG is wrong. Movie evidence takes priority over "LFL story group" claims. If the movie says that the ship is X length and someone from LFL says it's Y length then the person from LFL is simply wrong.

This actually happened before with the Executor's length. An old RPG book gave a length of 8km, and for a long time that was the official number. However, the movie clearly shows a much longer ship (~16km IIRC). It took a lot of fan lobbying to finally get them to change the official number to match what the movies showed.

If you need any proof of the uselessness of movie references for "true" scale:

That would be a nice argument if there was any conflict between the various a-wing models or the pilot didn't fit, but there isn't anything wrong with them. The small a-wing works just fine with no scale issues, the only "conflict" is that someone has arbitrarily declared that the movies are wrong and it's actually a different size.

I disagree with people arguing that the size of the models used in the films is the way to determine correct relative size - the models didn't need to be the right size relative to each other, as they were free to film them any way they wanted - closer up to some than others, for example.

For the, the most objective determination is how they appear on the screen in the film, and even that's not entirely objective, given there are almost certainly discrepancies. If I could be bothered I go capture lots of stills from the films - surely that's the only relevant source?

Of course, the A-wing was designed a long time before the new story group was created.

Ok, so FFG used the physical models for source material, but those models were not really in scale with one another. When we use the cockpit as a reference, or shots where the 2 ships are side by side, it is quite clear that the a-wing is too big. Too big compared to a -wing or an xwing. However, I am ok with that. It is what it is, and I don't really want flea-sized awings anyway. I think the Y-wing should be bigger compared to the xwing as well, again using the only item that it really fixed size, the pilot / cockpit. I think it is clear that, although they did go to lucas and use the physical models, those models evidently were not in scale with one another, or not built to a set scale. Need it smaller, pull the camera back. Need it bigger, zoom in. Now we do have some scenes where the ships appear together, and there the size differences are quite apparent. this did not fully translate over the models. Oh well. i suspect there were several models of A-wings, built at different scales. Probably true of a lot of the other ships as well. Personally, I prefer looks good on the table / feels right to absolute scale anyway. In that case the A-wing would be about the size of the "front pod" of a y-wing, as stated above.

now we know why you get so many green moves in an FFG a-wing. Lots of space for that jacuzzi. Maybe even a massage therapist crew.

That also explains why they can't do a Barrel Roll: You don't want to spill the water from that jacuzzi.

FFG Fanboyism aside. (and I love this game, but I can call a duck a duck) I think scale is pretty well out the window here. If we were to use the xwing as the yardstick, the ywing is too small, so is the phantom, A-wing way too big. some others may be a litle out as well. I'm not good at posting movie shots, but someone post one of luke standing beside his xwing on dagobah, the thing is the size of an F-14, which makes sense. Now compare with the model with pilot of the a-wing posted earlier in this thread. I think if you had the vertical space, you could park the A-wing between the landing gear of the X-wing. Let's just agree (or not if you are vandor) that scale is out the window and enjoy the game.

Guys, im pleased that some people see i've got a point but its not worth getting too heated over.

I was just curious, i'd not seen this come up before.

I'm mainly a historical gamer and ,military history is part of my job so i tend to notice when things are badly scaled that are 'real world.

personally i obviously think that the Y is too small and the A too big but i think there are two good reasons for it.

1. making a properly scaled A wing would make it tiny, you'd have to have an additional price code or set of packaging and it wouldnt look too attractive as a purchase

2. FFG have gone off the film models for consistancy even if it looks off.

Honestly its not the end of the world i just think personally i'd have 'broke the mould' when having this game sculpted and made everything to scale. I'm not amazingly happy about 'half scale' huge ships either but understand that not doing so makes them unwieledy for games (althought the few fan made 1:270 ones look brilliant and not that much bigger in game 'surface area' to be honest)

Im a Battlefleet Gothic player and i used to love the rationale in that. The ships were not scaled because the actual ship was a pinprick on the table, the model you saw was the image on the ships scanners and visual sensors. That doesnt work so well for xwing but was a great work around having to actually say how many kilometres long a cruiser was

but you know 'real world' jet interceptors have been that size.

The ME163 for example

The 163 was rocket powered, not a jet.

Got to love arguing about semantics when it has zero relevance to the point being made.

You know what i mean, it could have been chuffing clockwork powered, the point is that a light fast interceptor was tiny, not its propulsion system.

Are we really having this discussion again?

Well, if you'd not noticed the four pages of comments... yes

Weirdly the toys seemed more in scale or perhaps that was just me being a kid.

I remember by Y wing being a fair bit bigger than my X wing in the 80s and back in the 90s when i bought rereleases of the A wing and TIE the A wing was pretty small.

I think a point a lot of people are missing (FFG is LYING... REALLY???) is that all models have to be approved by LFL. They provide the models to work off of, sure, but if they're keeping a number that you don't personally like, it's hardly FFGs fault.

If LFL says it's THIS big, and you need their approval, you make it that big.

Personally, I have better things to worry about than the precise size of my plastic space ships.

Yeah like i say , no biggy.

Just you'd think that its the one time where it might be nice to amend things to be in scale

Here's the lenght of the ships as listed on Starwars.com prior to them revamping the site. It no longer has sizes at all. But Wookipedia took it's stats from that site, and I remember the last time this came up it was right. So I jotted it down from the Starwars.com. Because otherwise you get the "well Wookipedia isn't official" debate.

That means these are the official lengths per LFL. So if you don't agree with them, feel free to email LFL and debate it with them.

X-Wing - 12.5m @ 1/270 4.62cm

A-Wing - 9.6m @ 1/270 3.55cm

Y-Wing - 16m @ 1/270 5.92cm

I measured my ships last night and that's how big each one of them was, 4.62cm for the X, 3.55cm for the A and 5.92cm for the Y.

So the A-Wing is in fact the proper size according to the stats that LFL has come up with, and so is the Y-Wing for that matter.

Yeah constantly repeating that FFG are going of ILM/LFLs stats doesnt mean that those are not dodgy does it?

Regardless of what numbers either company put up , the trusty optical device 'Mk1 eyeball' makes it pretty obvious the A wing is too big

Just watch the films!

Like I said, I believe the mistake lies with LFL, not FFG. It may be official, but that doesn't mean it's right. If I buy Disney tomorrow and change the stats, would my new ones be the right ones? I'd argue no - how they looked in the films is what's right.

^^^^^ This