So, just about everyone in my local scene plays Phantom lists, and I'm looking for suggestions on how to counter them outside of the usual Fat Han stuff. Any thoughts? I've been listbuilding around the core concept of:

Nera Dantels + Flechettex2 + Munitions Failsafe

Roark Garnet (probably with an Ion Turret)

Which comes out to 55 points. The idea is Roark bumps Nera up to 12 and even if she misses with the Flechettes, the Phantom she's shooting at will still end up stressed and unable to recloak.

You could just ask them to be a bit more original instead of boarding that bandwagon.

Otherwise high ps like wedge plus his ability can ruin a phantoms day.

I like it. Try it out and let us know how it works. The only thing I see missing is deadeye on Nera, so she doesn't have to rely on target locking.

Based on what I saw at last night's weekly game night, Rebel Aces has banished Phantoms altogether. You might want to think a step ahead and try to build squads to beat exactly the sort of squad you're thinking about now. Back to swarms, maybe.

You could just ask them to be a bit more original instead of boarding that bandwagon.

See this is actually the worst thing about meta-games, the idea that every single person playing the good is doing so only because that's what everybody else is doing so. Some people genuinely like the ships and, believe it or not, are completely ignorant to the global meta-game. It would be nice for everyone not to automatically assume such things.

You could just ask them to be a bit more original instead of boarding that bandwagon.

See this is actually the worst thing about meta-games, the idea that every single person playing the good is doing so only because that's what everybody else is doing so. Some people genuinely like the ships and, believe it or not, are completely ignorant to the global meta-game. It would be nice for everyone not to automatically assume such things.

Motives aside, I think we can all agree it would be nice if people played lots of different lists rather than a few common ones. I think they key is playing with people who try lists that sound fun, rather than lists that they think are most likely to make them win.

The spanish national champion (out of 149 players) played:

Cracken, swarm tactics 21
Roark, blaster turret, moldy crow, chewbacca 30
Blue, FCS 24
Blue, FCS 24

Yours looks like a good idea too. I don't think you need the munition failure with 2pts torps.

You could go with :

Nera, flechette torpedoes, FCS 30

Roark, ion turret 24

Blue, FCS

Cracken, swarm tactics 21

99pts (you can add intelligence agent on roark)

You loose a bit of firepower for a bit of control.

run Jake from state farm with vi + anything else. Then take cracken, lando w/vi. Garvin with a PS swarm tactics boost or Roark. And enjoy the turr phenir movement. (more of a fun list, but Roark or cracken both can help. Even tycho with ptl, swarm tactics is reasonable.

Asteroid placement, spread your ships so the Phantom can't decloak, stagger your arcs. 4 dice does not the end of the game make.

I'm a fan of wedge with VI and engine upgrades. Guarantees you'll move last and shoot first and allows for course correction when necessary

The spanish national champion (out of 149 players) played:

Cracken, swarm tactics 21

Roark, blaster turret, moldy crow, chewbacca 30

Blue, FCS 24

Blue, FCS 24

Yours looks like a good idea too. I don't think you need the munition failure with 2pts torps.

You could go with :

Nera, flechette torpedoes, FCS 30

Roark, ion turret 24

Blue, FCS

Cracken, swarm tactics 21

99pts (you can add intelligence agent on roark)

You loose a bit of firepower for a bit of control.

I need to try a Roark/Cracken list. Looks fun.

So, just about everyone in my local scene plays Phantom lists, and I'm looking for suggestions on how to counter them outside of the usual Fat Han stuff. Any thoughts? I've been listbuilding around the core concept of:

Nera Dantels + Flechettex2 + Munitions Failsafe

Roark Garnet (probably with an Ion Turret)

Which comes out to 55 points. The idea is Roark bumps Nera up to 12 and even if she misses with the Flechettes, the Phantom she's shooting at will still end up stressed and unable to recloak.

You've hit the nail on the head; you need a PS10+ ship that can induce stress. For the PS part you can use Roark or a PS8 Pilot + Veteran Instincts, for the stress inducer there is Fleccettes, Tactician and R3A2. So really there are a lot of options!

Horton, r2d6, vi, proton, proton, engine, ion....

Based on what I saw at last night's weekly game night, Rebel Aces has banished Phantoms altogether. You might want to think a step ahead and try to build squads to beat exactly the sort of squad you're thinking about now. Back to swarms, maybe.

That's good to hear. I'm planning on taking my Rebel Aces out for a spin this evening. It's also designed against Phantoms.

However, isn't Fat Han the build to beat these days?

run Jake from state farm with vi + anything else. Then take cracken, lando w/vi. Garvin with a PS swarm tactics boost or Roark. And enjoy the turr phenir movement. (more of a fun list, but Roark or cracken both can help. Even tycho with ptl, swarm tactics is reasonable.

Is that Khaki Squadron?

Proton Bombs

If they catch a phantom when you drop 'em, you have a 7/33 chance of killing them outright. Otherwise, 2 proton bombs WILL do the trick, without you needing to fire a shot.

The Phantom pilots obviously won't want you to do that, so they'll use their maneuverability to stay away from your 6.
However, they're abandoning the best position to be in to avoid fire, so now you have an easier time gunning them down.

High Pilot Skill

This essentially removes the advantage of their maneuverability, forcing them to guess where you will be, and getting you the shot you want. Coupled with the Proton Bomb example from earlier, and you've made those things hyper-useful.

Fat Hans

A High PS 1-3 turret with built-in damage boost that can then use its upgrades for defensive purposes. Take the guesswork out of fighting the Phantoms, and just eat 'em for lunch. Oh, and have a few other ships handy, just in case.

Ships that fly more unconventionally than they do.

BlockORS; Hypermobile B-Wings (so long as they've got that PS boost); PTL+Daredevil A-Wings; et cetera.

If you've got the PS bid, and they can't guess where you'll be, you're golden.
If you've lost the PS bid, and have more options than they can predict, you can out-juke their mobility.

Careful placement of Asteroids

The Phantom's main advantage is their maneuverability (followed by damage, upgrade slots, and dodging). Asteroids vastly hinder that maneuverability (as they can't decloak through them), and can translate into unevadable damage if they misjudge. This stacks very well with flying extra-maneuverable ships yourself.

Try to get behind the ACD phantom. The ACD Phantoms have problems turning around, Echo included. Because they do not want to stress themselves, they are unlikely to do Kturns, making them more stiff in terms of maneuvering.

Most of the time, phantoms love to decloak to the side, and then swing inwards with a hard turn1 or similar maneuvers. Once you catch that pattern, you will start to see their possible maneuvering options (although honestly not many ships can answer their maneuvers. Woe be you if you are stuck in an Xwing or TIE or Bwing. PTL TIEint may be able to answer them, and so will TIEdef, but anything else? good luck)

Isnt Lt. Blount a pretty good addition to an anti Phantom list?

Isnt Lt. Blount a pretty good addition to an anti Phantom list?

not particularly, granted the ion pulse + deadeye combo is very sickening, but often you wouldn't have the chance to capitalize on that 1 round of ion, and it is only a one-shot. So instead of a full hp phantom, you now have a 3hp phantom, so pretty much you are back to square 1