Everyone is entitled to their own headcanon. Steven Brust once wrote this:

The Cool Stuff Theory of Literature is as follows: All literature consists of whatever the writer thinks is cool. The reader will like the book to the degree that he agrees with the writer about what's cool. And that works all the way from the external trappings to the level of metaphor, subtext, and the way one uses words.

For tiefanatic, Traviss' Mandalorians aren't just cool but the coolest. That would be okay, except that any time it becomes clear that his headcanon is in conflict with either the established canon or someone else's headcanon, tiefanatic goes to war.

And, to be perfectly honest, I kind of have to respect his dedication to this particular lost cause. It's just that sometimes it's too much fun to poke at someone else's cognitive dissonance.

I don't agree with lots of stuff in the EU, but it is the canon.

No it isn't. You may consider it such, but that puts it firmly in the realm of head canon, because Disney does not recognize it as such. As the owner of the IP they and they alone get to decide what is or is not canon.

Please give me the source where Lucas said Jango isn't a Mandalorian?

Look at post #8 for the quote from Dave Filoni.

You know I don't really give a crap about what Disney says is canon and what isn't.

As for that quote, it never stated that Jango ISN'T a Mandalorian, it simply said it is an idea from Lucas that he might be just a guy. That is purely conjectural. That means that in this "new canon", since Lucas made some comment about he would have made Boba get out of the Sarlaac if he had realized he would become so popular as he did, Boba actually did come out of the Sarlaac.

So the way it exists in our minds is the ONLY thing that really matters.

If you don't accept canon then there is simply no reason to discuss this, because we can not agree on a frame of what really happened.

It is like trying to discuss history with someone who refuses to accept what history says as being accurate. Head Canon is all very fine, but it is just that head canon and not something anyone else is likely to agree counts for any reasonable discussion.

I can say that in my head canon that Luke is the love child of Batman and Wonder-Woman... Prove to me I'm wrong if I refuse to accept canon.

My point is NONE of it REALLY happened. It is all fiction. And let's be honest, it isn't internally consistent.

Episodes IV-V aren't even consistent with episodes I-III. (In fact I find more inconsistency between these two trilogies then between almost any other works in the Star Wars Universe)

What Lucas was trying to get at when he established Canon was what stories he was going to bother being internally consistent with.

For me to say "such and such" is what really happened, and "that and that" didn't is absurd.

You are right, if you mean that I think all discussions of Canon are absurd.

Discussions of consistency are fine, great. Let's have them. But let's just agree that they are discussions of interpretation of fiction and no one will ever be "correct".

So, George didn't consider all EU stuff non-canon, since TCW was part of it, whether George likes it or not.

Everyone is entitled to their own headcanon.

My only issue with headcanon is when someone tries to pass it off as being on par with the established canon.

If two people are discussing Star Wars, they have two options. Either accept only established canon as the foundation of the discussion or accept headcanon, which means established canon is pretty much thrown out the window and anything goes.

Everyone is entitled to their own headcanon. Steven Brust once wrote this:

The Cool Stuff Theory of Literature is as follows: All literature consists of whatever the writer thinks is cool. The reader will like the book to the degree that he agrees with the writer about what's cool. And that works all the way from the external trappings to the level of metaphor, subtext, and the way one uses words.

For tiefanatic, Traviss' Mandalorians aren't just cool but the coolest. That would be okay, except that any time it becomes clear that his headcanon is in conflict with either the established canon or someone else's headcanon, tiefanatic goes to war.

And, to be perfectly honest, I kind of have to respect his dedication to this particular lost cause. It's just that sometimes it's too much fun to poke at someone else's cognitive dissonance.

Vanor doesn't seem to understand there is such a thing as eye of the beholder. E.g. New Mandalorians saying Jango is a pretender is about the same as my saying Palpatine is the savior of the galaxy, it depends on the point of view.

Everyone is entitled to their own headcanon.

****, I wish I had my own head cannon.

Everyone is entitled to their own headcanon.

My only issue with headcanon is when someone tries to pass it off as being on par with the established canon.

If two people are discussing Star Wars, they have two options. Either accept only established canon as the foundation of the discussion or accept headcanon, which means established canon is pretty much thrown out the window and anything goes.

I accept the established canon of the EU, and I think most people accept that as well, not what Disney says until they establish more.

You know I don't really give a crap about what Disney says is canon and what isn't.

So, George didn't consider all EU stuff non-canon, since TCW was part of it, whether George likes it or not.

Yep I give up, since people will argue that black is white, and Australia is the center of the known universe because they believe that to be true. There is no reason to continue this... Which I knew was true as soon as I saw who posted this thread.

Sorry Tiefanatic, I actually like a fair amount of what you say here, but when it comes to canon there's just no reason to discuss it with you, because you refuse to accept anything other then what you think is canon.

It's like trying to discuss star wars tech with BKL.

I like it when a culture is diverse and has different factions. So, I like the New Mandalorians. That they piss of Traviss is only icing on the cake.

Everyone is entitled to their own headcanon.

****, I wish I had my own head cannon.

It's been done.

You know I don't really give a crap about what Disney says is canon and what isn't.

So, George didn't consider all EU stuff non-canon, since TCW was part of it, whether George likes it or not.

Yep I give up, since people will argue that black is white, and Australia is the center of the known universe because they believe that to be true. There is no reason to continue this... Which I knew was true as soon as I saw who posted this thread.Sorry Tiefanatic, I actually like a fair amount of what you say here, but when it comes to canon there's just no reason to discuss it with you, because you refuse to accept anything other then what you think is canon.It's like trying to discuss star wars tech with BKL.

I'm not arguing about what is canon, I'm just saying that I think TCW Mandalorians are Di'kute and Traviss Mandalorians are awesome.

Everyone is entitled to their own headcanon.

My only issue with headcanon is when someone tries to pass it off as being on par with the established canon.

If two people are discussing Star Wars, they have two options. Either accept only established canon as the foundation of the discussion or accept headcanon, which means established canon is pretty much thrown out the window and anything goes.

Or acknowledge that canon is absurd. You can discuss how something that happens it one movie/book/comic book/computer game is inconsistent with something else.

Here's and example: I often have a conversation about Boba Fett. Despite acting totally bad to the bone, he does get taken out by a blind guy, who didn't know he was there, by getting knocked into the mouth of a creature that literally had to just wait for stuff to fall in its mouth. So I have to point out that he just didn't turn out to be that tough.

Someone will inevitably point out that according to Dark Empire, Boba Fett, got out of the Sarlack and chased our heroes around some more.

The problem arise when someone tries to prove that Boba Fett REALLY was a tough guy, rather than explaining how he is to you.

Why is it necessary to have two separate threads discussing the same thing?

Why is it necessary to have two separate threads discussing the same thing?

I know right, I think it takes 16 threads to discuss the TIE advanced and C3PO.

I have to say that I am with Y-Wing Ace in my view of canon - until and unless post-Disney Star Wars comes up with anything nearly as creative and powerful as the EU, I will continue to consider "Legends" the canon worth caring about. The Rebels pilot/movie/A New Spark or whatever does not do that yet - it may, but as with many first episodes, there are just too many clunky expositions and character wonkinesses for me to care about it that much.

I enjoyed Traviss's Mandos up until Order 66. At that point, the lack of any opposing moral viewpoint really bothered me. This is not to say that I think the Clone Wars Mandos are superior - I have only watched a couple of episodes from the middle seasons of the show, because I got really, really annoyed at how lazily and offensively political, not to mention stupid, the plotting and thematics became.

At some point (fairly recently, actually), I accepted that my value for the Legends line of the Exapanded Universe, as well as my general impatience with people who disregard the EU as "inferior" to the films, is something that's never going to be widely shared. As far as questions of "official" canon, I know I was never going to be on the "winning" side, even prior to Disney's announcement (though I would like to reference Firefly and say that just because my "side" lost, doesn't mean it was the wrong side.

Why is it necessary to have two separate threads discussing the same thing?

'Cause originally they weren't.

I have to say that I am with Y-Wing Ace in my view of canon - until and unless post-Disney Star Wars comes up with anything nearly as creative and powerful as the EU, I will continue to consider "Legends" the canon worth caring about. The Rebels pilot/movie/A New Spark or whatever does not do that yet - it may, but as with many first episodes, there are just too many clunky expositions and character wonkinesses for me to care about it that much.

I enjoyed Traviss's Mandos up until Order 66. At that point, the lack of any opposing moral viewpoint really bothered me. This is not to say that I think the Clone Wars Mandos are superior - I have only watched a couple of episodes from the middle seasons of the show, because I got really, really annoyed at how lazily and offensively political, not to mention stupid, the plotting and thematics became.

At some point (fairly recently, actually), I accepted that my value for the Legends line of the Exapanded Universe, as well as my general impatience with people who disregard the EU as "inferior" to the films, is something that's never going to be widely shared. As far as questions of "official" canon, I know I was never going to be on the "winning" side, even prior to Disney's announcement (though I would like to reference Firefly and say that just because my "side" lost, doesn't mean it was the wrong side.

Well actually, there was going to be opposing morals in Imperial Commando 2, but of course, that was cancelled.

Or acknowledge that canon is absurd.

Well if you accept that, then there's no way to have a reasonable discussion let alone a debate. It's again like trying to discuss history with someone who refuses to accept history as being accurate.

If you have someone who says the real reason for WWII was due to the Asgard (from SG1) making Japan bomb Perl, because the US Navy was harboring Goa'uld... How do you argue with someone who takes that kind of stance?

The same goes for Canon. Canon serves two purposes, to provide some sort of guide to keep things consistent in a IP with more the one author. The second and less important purpose is to give people a framework to discuss said IP.

Without canon there's no common reference to base the discussion on, and you have something like the above WWII example. If someone won't accept established canon as being accurate then there's next to no reason to even discuss anything with them, because you aren't even talking about the same series of events.

Well actually, there was going to be opposing morals in Imperial Commando 2, but of course, that was cancelled.

It's at least misleading to say it was "canceled", rather than "never completed because its author decided to stop working in a shared universe".

You know I don't really give a crap about what Disney says is canon and what isn't.

So, George didn't consider all EU stuff non-canon, since TCW was part of it, whether George likes it or not.

Yep I give up, since people will argue that black is white, and Australia is the center of the known universe because they believe that to be true. There is no reason to continue this... Which I knew was true as soon as I saw who posted this thread.

Sorry Tiefanatic, I actually like a fair amount of what you say here, but when it comes to canon there's just no reason to discuss it with you, because you refuse to accept anything other then what you think is canon.

It's like trying to discuss star wars tech with BKL.

Well actually, there was going to be opposing morals in Imperial Commando 2, but of course, that was cancelled.

It's at least misleading to say it was "canceled", rather than "never completed because its author decided to stop working in a shared universe".

And I can understand it perfectly, I mean, the New Mandos were retconned, but to see work you created just openly contradicted wouldn't be to pleasing.

I have to say that I am with Y-Wing Ace in my view of canon - until and unless post-Disney Star Wars comes up with anything nearly as creative and powerful as the EU, I will continue to consider "Legends" the canon worth caring about. The Rebels pilot/movie/A New Spark or whatever does not do that yet - it may, but as with many first episodes, there are just too many clunky expositions and character wonkinesses for me to care about it that much.

I enjoyed Traviss's Mandos up until Order 66. At that point, the lack of any opposing moral viewpoint really bothered me. This is not to say that I think the Clone Wars Mandos are superior - I have only watched a couple of episodes from the middle seasons of the show, because I got really, really annoyed at how lazily and offensively political, not to mention stupid, the plotting and thematics became.

At some point (fairly recently, actually), I accepted that my value for the Legends line of the Exapanded Universe, as well as my general impatience with people who disregard the EU as "inferior" to the films, is something that's never going to be widely shared. As far as questions of "official" canon, I know I was never going to be on the "winning" side, even prior to Disney's announcement (though I would like to reference Firefly and say that just because my "side" lost, doesn't mean it was the wrong side.

Fortunately, most of my friends and family agree about EU being amazing and a better line of canon, but it seems to not be a shared view around the world.

I'm sure if you asked Jango Fett, he'd say that new mandalorians are pretenders and he's the true mandalorian.

But that's the whole point. The opinion of a character is one thing, the opinion of the author is another. What Jango thinks is just that, what Jango thinks. What George Lucas thinks however is not just an opinion.

Maybe GL just doesn't like what happened to the Mandos, I don't know. But consider that the vast majority of what is known about the Mandos comes from the EU. Even in ESB, that armor was just something that used to be worn by a evil warriors from the clone wars. It was Marvel who created the beginnings of the Mandolrians.

George has always seemed rather dismissive of anything that doesn't line up with his vision. Which is IMO completely fair, it's his universe, we just get to play in it. But if he says that Jango isn't a Mando, then there's really no room to argue, because everything in the EU is subject to the whim of GL or now Disney.

but to see work you created just openly contradicted wouldn't be to pleasing.

No, but I think for her the biggest problem was she knew she couldn't continue with the story as she saw it, because she openly admitted that she didn't care about established canon.

I don't blame her in the least for dropping the book considering what happened. Trying to fix everything she had wrote to fit in line with the new canon wouldn't be easy, in fact I'm not sure anyone could really pull it off.

I will gladly take the "New Mandos" of TCW over that dross that Traviss wrote. Those books were the worst of every multi-author series. I had to force myself to read them, because I am a completionist. I don't know if it is strictly the writing itself or the predictable story telling/characterizations, but they were just not for me.

As far as canon goes, with as convoluted a past as it's had, I stick to the EU as much as I can. I don't have anything against Disney's decision about canon, and feel pretty confident that many of the things that I love about the book/comic book EU will be adapted into the new media canon. Just as things were with TCW already, I expect more from Rebels and Episode 7.