Since those Mandalorians in The Clone Wars are so absolutely NOT Mandalorian, I like to call them by derogatory nickanmes, such as: Happy-clappy idiots, mirsh kyramud ti mir osik (boring people with dung for brains), etc.

Does anyone else do the same?

Sorry, but I just call the "New Mandalorians" While I did hate the "New Mandalorians" at first, I kind of liked how the mandalorians ended up at the end of the Darth Maul arc. They kinda brought them back around. As a big fan of the Karen Travis version of the Mando'a, I was happy to see them getting back to their violent roots by embracing Death Watch as saviors. And while I know Skirata and crew hated the Death Watch, they were on the rise thanks to the Empire in Imperial Commando(I think thats the right book - the scene where Gilamar stabs Priest is one of my favorites) and I think that makes sense since we are left with the Death Watch leaderless after Sidious beats Maul. I just assume Priest takes over as leader when Maul doesn't come back. Also I really liked the scene where Maul challenges Visla under the old law for leadership of the Death Watch. It harkens back to the comic where Ulic Qel Droma beats Mandalore the Indomitable in combat and gains the allegiance of the Mando'a during the Sith War.

If you like Traviss' version of Mandos, how can you possibly like the "New Mandalorians"? They're the reason RepCom was never finished, they contradicted just about everything about Mandalorians, and their Death Watch was almost exactly how, according to RC, Mandalorians were supposed to act. (btw yes Imperial Commando is the right book)

I'm not going to put much effort into this.

But your opinion does not trump canon those are Mandorians, regardless of your opinion on the matter.

As an interesting side note however neither Jango or Boba are Mandorians. According to both Canon and Legends he wasn't a native to Mandalore and is considered a pretender by the Mandorlian Government.

I'm not going to put much effort into this.

But your opinion does not trump canon those are Mandorians, regardless of your opinion on the matter.

As an interesting side note however neither Jango or Boba are Mandorians. According to both Canon and Legends he wasn't a native to Mandalore and is considered a pretender by the Mandorlian Government.

Jango and Boba are both the Mand'alor at some point. And a lot of Mandalorians weren't native to Mandalore. How are they 'not Mandalorians'? And I never said that they aren't technically Mandalorians, I said I think they're stupid Mandalorians.

They're the reason RepCom was never finished, they contradicted just about everything about Mandalorians

Then just about everything written about them was wrong, or at least is not canon. The change Disney made doesn't even factor into this, because TCW was always a higher level of canon then the books, so even before then what happened in TCW made those books non-canon.

Travis was a blight on star wars. Repcom was a fine game but those books are bantha poodoo.

How are they 'not Mandalorians'?

Well first off, it was never stated that they were Mandalorians in any of the movies.

Second in TCW it's stated point blank that Jango is not a Mandalorian.

The only thing that can be said canon wise is that both of them used Mandalorian armor. Here's a quote from Dave Filoni, a source that quite simply can not be questioned.

"So, the idea that Jango Fett is not a Mandalorian - that's something that comes directly from George. I think that - when we fist saw Jango in Attack of the Clones - that a lot of us, myself included, we assumed, "Oh, he must be a Mandalorian. There he is in Mandalorian armor." So, there's kind of this early assumption that Jango must be a Mandalorian. That was interesting to see. But, that was never stated in the film. It's never stated that he's Mandalorian. He's always just referred to as a bounty hunter." - Dave Filoni

Also in the ESB novelization it says... "the sort of armor worn by a group of evil warriors defeated by the Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars" so he's never actually referred to as a Mando.

So we have no movie reference to either of them being Mando's, we have both George and Dave saying that Jango was not a Mando, and as Jango's clone that means Boba isn't a Mando either.

If you like Traviss' version of Mandos, how can you possibly like the "New Mandalorians"? They're the reason RepCom was never finished, they contradicted just about everything about Mandalorians, and their Death Watch was almost exactly how, according to RC, Mandalorians were supposed to act. (btw yes Imperial Commando is the right book)

The Republic Commando series was never finished because Traviss decided she'd rather not write in the Star Wars universe at all than color inside the lines drawn by her publisher and LFL. You can call that a courageous and principled stand (and I'm tempted to agree, despite my disagreemenst with her work), but saying it's the fault of the Clone Wars series is disingenuous.

As to the main point, Traviss' version of Mandalorian culture is shallow, and basically asserts that nothing has changed in Mandalorian culture in the centuries since they were manipulated into endless, mindless war on behalf of the Sith. By contrast, Clone Wars shows them as engaged with, and attempting to adapt to, galactic culture and events--and does an interesting job of showing what happens when you try to reformat a culture from the top down. At least to my eye, that makes the "New Mandalorians" far more interesting.

And the right term for them is probably "Mandalorians".

How are they 'not Mandalorians'?

Well first off, it was never stated that they were Mandalorians in any of the movies.Second in TCW it's stated point blank that Jango is not a Mandalorian.The only thing that can be said canon wise is that both of them used Mandalorian armor. Here's a quote from Dave Filoni, a source that quite simply can not be questioned.

"So, the idea that Jango Fett is not a Mandalorian - that's something that comes directly from George. I think that - when we fist saw Jango in Attack of the Clones - that a lot of us, myself included, we assumed, "Oh, he must be a Mandalorian. There he is in Mandalorian armor." So, there's kind of this early assumption that Jango must be a Mandalorian. That was interesting to see. But, that was never stated in the film. It's never stated that he's Mandalorian. He's always just referred to as a bounty hunter." - Dave Filoni

Also in the ESB novelization it says... "the sort of armor worn by a group of evil warriors defeated by the Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars" so he's never actually referred to as a Mando.So we have no movie reference to either of them being Mando's, we have both George and Dave saying that Jango was not a Mando, and as Jango's clone that means Boba isn't a Mando either.

First of all, when in TCW does it say that he's not a Mando?

Second, I know that technically, they aren't canonically Mandalorian, but non-canonically, they are.

Third, just because Boba's a clone of Jango that doesn't mean he can't be a Mandalorian. Every single Clone Trooper, Commando and ARC trooper was a clone of Jango. But a lot of them were Mandos.

If you like Traviss' version of Mandos, how can you possibly like the "New Mandalorians"? They're the reason RepCom was never finished, they contradicted just about everything about Mandalorians, and their Death Watch was almost exactly how, according to RC, Mandalorians were supposed to act. (btw yes Imperial Commando is the right book)

The Republic Commando series was never finished because Traviss decided she'd rather not write in the Star Wars universe at all than color inside the lines drawn by her publisher and LFL. You can call that a courageous and principled stand (and I'm tempted to agree, despite my disagreemenst with her work), but saying it's the fault of the Clone Wars series is disingenuous.As to the main point, Traviss' version of Mandalorian culture is shallow, and basically asserts that nothing has changed in Mandalorian culture in the centuries since they were manipulated into endless, mindless war on behalf of the Sith. By contrast, Clone Wars shows them as engaged with, and attempting to adapt to, galactic culture and events--and does an interesting job of showing what happens when you try to reformat a culture from the top down. At least to my eye, that makes the "New Mandalorians" far more interesting.And the right term for them is probably "Mandalorians".

She stopped writing it because she was asked to make the Mandalorians in her books people living on a post-apocalyptic planet ruled by the Death Watch. Which didn't exactly fit in with the story.

First of all, when in TCW does it say that he's not a Mando?

Almec said it in the clone wars show.

Second, I know that technically, they aren't canonically Mandalorian, but non-canonically, they are.

Non canon doesn't mean a thing... Non-canonically Luke Skywalker is also Batman, and Wonder-woman's love child...

Which didn't exactly fit in with the story.

Which was her problem, because she refused to follow along with established canon.

First of all, when in TCW does it say that he's not a Mando?

Almec said it in the clone wars show.

Second, I know that technically, they aren't canonically Mandalorian, but non-canonically, they are.

Non canon doesn't mean a thing... Non-canonically Luke Skywalker is also Batman, and Wonder-woman's love child...

Which didn't exactly fit in with the story.

Which was her problem, because she refused to follow along with established canon.

Sorry, by non-canon I meant Legends canon. And she didn't refuse to follow along with established canon, by the time TCW was released, her story had already developed into what it is now. It's not her fault that The Clone Wars decided to change all of that.

And she didn't refuse to follow along with established canon

Yeah she kinda did. It may not be her fault, because when she was writing stuff there wasn't much in the way of G-Canon regarding them. But when TCW came out she had two choices, adapt her story to the established canon or not have her book be published.

I can't even say that I blame her for not doing it. It would be awkward at best trying to recon stuff to that degree.

But that's the risk every author takes when they write novels for someone else's IP, that the person who owes it may come along and undo everything you have written.

I'm not going to put much effort into this.

But your opinion does not trump canon those are Mandorians, regardless of your opinion on the matter.

As an interesting side note however neither Jango or Boba are Mandorians. According to both Canon and Legends he wasn't a native to Mandalore and is considered a pretender by the Mandorlian Government.

Wow, this statement is somewhat funny, as they are in fact Mandalorians. Jango Fett is from Concord Dawn, a Mandalorian planet, and his mentor is Jaster Mareel, the leader of the True Mandalorians. Boba actually becomes the Mandalore (leader) of the Mandalorians. And duh they are considered pretenders because the "new mandalorian" crap people wouldn't consider True Mandalorians proper people.

EDIT: also on another point, Mandalorians aren't a species. They are a philosophy/way of life.

Jango Fett is from Concord Dawn

That's Legends and no longer canon. George himself said that Jango is not a Mandorlian, unless you believe that Legends trumps what George says, he's not.

What ever happens to Boba is also Legends and not canon.

I'm not going to put much effort into this.

But your opinion does not trump canon those are Mandorians, regardless of your opinion on the matter.

As an interesting side note however neither Jango or Boba are Mandorians. According to both Canon and Legends he wasn't a native to Mandalore and is considered a pretender by the Mandorlian Government.

I stopped watching the Clone Wars before there was more than one episode with Mandelorians. However, as a matter of principal I have to chime in. VandorDM, I could not disagree more. Let's be honest, none of this is real. It is all imaginary. So the way it exists in our minds is the ONLY thing that really matters.

For example, I am just really bumbed that we never got the Episode I-III movies that Lucas promised. I mean they would have been cool Oh, well. If they don't exist then they don't exists.

Jango Fett is from Concord Dawn

That's Legends and no longer canon. George himself said that Jango is not a Mandorlian, unless you believe that Legends trumps what George says, he's not.

What ever happens to Boba is also Legends and not canon.

I'm not talking about disneyverse, I'm talking about Legends, the real canon, and also, there is nothing in the in the "new canon" that even states Boba isn't Mandalorian.

I'm not going to put much effort into this.But your opinion does not trump canon those are Mandorians, regardless of your opinion on the matter.As an interesting side note however neither Jango or Boba are Mandorians. According to both Canon and Legends he wasn't a native to Mandalore and is considered a pretender by the Mandorlian Government.

Wow, this statement is somewhat funny, as they are in fact Mandalorians. Jango Fett is from Concord Dawn, a Mandalorian planet, and his mentor is Jaster Mareel, the leader of the True Mandalorians. Boba actually becomes the Mandalore (leader) of the Mandalorians. And duh they are considered pretenders because the "new mandalorian" crap people wouldn't consider True Mandalorians proper people.EDIT: also on another point, Mandalorians aren't a species. They are a philosophy/way of life.

^

This. Exactly.

So the way it exists in our minds is the ONLY thing that really matters.

If you don't accept canon then there is simply no reason to discuss this, because we can not agree on a frame of what really happened.

It is like trying to discuss history with someone who refuses to accept what history says as being accurate. Head Canon is all very fine, but it is just that head canon and not something anyone else is likely to agree counts for any reasonable discussion.

I can say that in my head canon that Luke is the love child of Batman and Wonder-Woman... Prove to me I'm wrong if I refuse to accept canon.

the real canon, and also

Ahh so anything you disagree with doesn't count as real canon. I guess that makes you the final arbitrary of all things canon?

Even before Disney, George never accepted the EU as real canon, and so when he said "Jango isn't a Mando", then that's the only source that matters.

the real canon, and also

Ahh so anything you disagree with doesn't count as real canon. I guess that makes you the final arbitrary of all things canon?

Even before Disney, George never accepted the EU as real canon, and so when he said "Jango isn't a Mando", then that's the only source that matters.

I never said that, I simply stated I firmly believe Legends is the real canon. I don't agree with lots of stuff in the EU, but it is the canon. Please give me the source where Lucas said Jango isn't a Mandalorian? And like I said, Mandalorians aren't a species, they are a philosophy/culture.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention there is such a thing as a matter of opinion, I'm sure the Death Watch consider the pacifists pretenders.

Well, if he never accepted the EU as canon then why did he make Clone Wars canon? That was part of the EU too.

I don't agree with lots of stuff in the EU, but it is the canon.

No it isn't. You may consider it such, but that puts it firmly in the realm of head canon, because Disney does not recognize it as such. As the owner of the IP they and they alone get to decide what is or is not canon.

Please give me the source where Lucas said Jango isn't a Mandalorian?

Look at post #8 for the quote from Dave Filoni.

That was part of the EU too.

*Sigh* I'll try once more before I give up.

Canon is pretty much what ever the IP owner decides it is. At one point they had like 5 or 6 different classes of Canon. That said George always considered TCW to be canon because he was personally involved in it. So it was never EU.

Now we have 2.

TV and Movies, plus everything else going forward including any novels or comic books. The other being Legends which is all novels and such from the EU.