Large Monster Movement Shenanigans

By Charmy, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

I think simply put, larger monsters are better and put out more damage - thus we get fewer minis per group. They are great all around tanks. Smaller minions are great early on as they can drown heroes in numbers of attacks and possible damage. FFG playtests for balance, and I believe the balance in 2nd edition is pretty great.

However, from the overlord's POV, some heroes have some fancy gear and can also be tough to crack (especially later in campaigns). I think that the overlord needs some powerful monsters to keep them afloat and make things more interesting.

When you start getting down into "interpretation" of numbers, you're just missing the point.

Since rolling dice isn't the only mechanic in D2E that affects the game, crunching numbers alone without interpreting them may be a nice game on it's own, but it doesn't entail any propositions for real game situations. That's why I think you are missing the point if you don't put into consideration how the absolute numbers interact with other game mechanics such as OL cards.

So that's my reason why I think the interpretation of statistics is a necessity when you want to use them to say anything relevant about the game.

What is your reason for thinking I'm missing the point when I start getting down into the interpretation of statistics?

Edited by DAMaz

I don't understand how you can go on about small monsters vs large monsters for three pages and not even consider AoE effects.

Descent rooms tend to be cramped, so once my heroes have access to Blast or effects like Tempest (which is usually pretty early) I almost automatically choose large monsters.

re the original topic: large monster movement in this game is, in a word, ****. I know it wasn't any better in 1e, where large monsters were totally unwieldy... But did you know by exploiting shrink and expand rules, coupled with large monsters and pit rules, The Frozen Spire can be won in a single turn with just one Dash card? Some house rule is severely needed to keep the game fun and challenging for everyone

When you start getting down into "interpretation" of numbers, you're just missing the point.

Since rolling dice isn't the only mechanic in D2E that affects the game, crunching numbers alone without interpreting them may be a nice game on it's own, but it doesn't entail any propositions for real game situations. That's why I think you are missing the point if you don't put into consideration how the absolute numbers interact with other game mechanics such as OL cards.

So that's my reason why I think the interpretation of statistics is a necessity when you want to use them to say anything relevant about the game.

What is your reason for thinking I'm missing the point when I start getting down into the interpretation of statistics?

Because, barring specific situations, it's pretty much always true that large monsters do less damage regardless of abilities. This is mathematically true, period, and it will always be true. Numbers don't lie. However, as I've said multiple times, there are of course a variety of reasons to choose large monsters if you aren't looking to maximize your damage output.

I think both small and large monster groups are viable from a damage output perspective.

Things are not as simple as that either, Leoric of the Book's hero ability for instance dampens short range attacks and therefore may be more effective in fact against multiple weaker attacks than one big sweep from a large creature. But that's a specific situation and there are probably others speaking for and against the use of certain types of monsters.

In practice I think it's a tricky choice, because small monsters rarely deal relevant conditions and rarely have powerful surge abilities. There is one exception which is the Rat Swarm. This is the perfect killing machine.

Since I rarely want to dedicate a monster group to killing my heroes, I value utility over attack potential. Health and defense on the monster are more valuable in my mind than attack dices and attack abilities. That's why I never pick Volucriox Reavers even though I love their design, because they fill a tiny utility niche and I so rarely need their power. My heroes just know how to anticipate them and slaughter them in response.

I think both small and large monster groups are viable from a damage output perspective.

Things are not as simple as that either, Leoric of the Book's hero ability for instance dampens short range attacks and therefore may be more effective in fact against multiple weaker attacks than one big sweep from a large creature. But that's a specific situation and there are probably others speaking for and against the use of certain types of monsters.

In practice I think it's a tricky choice, because small monsters rarely deal relevant conditions and rarely have powerful surge abilities. There is one exception which is the Rat Swarm. This is the perfect killing machine.

Since I rarely want to dedicate a monster group to killing my heroes, I value utility over attack potential. Health and defense on the monster are more valuable in my mind than attack dices and attack abilities. That's why I never pick Volucriox Reavers even though I love their design, because they fill a tiny utility niche and I so rarely need their power. My heroes just know how to anticipate them and slaughter them in response.

Eh, I find that small monsters often have better surge abilities than larger monsters do (Rat swarms are medium monsters). The Black Venom ability of the master bandit is hilariously strong (bandits are currently my favorite small monster group, they do great damage, come in pack of 5, have great surge abilities, can destroy treasure, and have a ranged attack while being more durable than goblin archers? YES PLEASE). Swarm on harpies is amazing. Hybrid Sentinels have the same fire breath ability of the shadow dragon. Piercing 2 on volucrux reavers with dice more likely to roll a surge? Thank you!

There are a lot of instances I choose large monsters: they are perfectly viable and can be very useful. But they do less damage than small monster groups,.