It seems unlikely they will switch editions soon. Their business "ship" is sailing perfectly financially. FFG has ZERO business incentive to rock the boat at the moment.

I have $2200 in game materials at the moment and plan on adding more. But with a "New" edition it most likely would involve repurchasing this whole set you could forget any more support and purchases from me.

Unless FFG changes its business model of selling the ships with the cards for the next edition.

And then again it returns to my original assertion. FFG is making money hand over fist with its current business model. Rocking the boat with a new edition and any change to its model of selling ships with cards would be just plain dumb business wise.

No 2nd edition till the Avenger comes out IMO

No 2nd edition till the Avenger comes out IMO

They've got at least another year's worth of releases before I would start getting concerned about a second edition. I don't see thre being any way they'll not release fan favourites like the TIE Avenger and Assault Gunboat. They may as well be printing money for themselves!

It's entirely possible that with the release of the new film there will be a new starter set though.

I've been writing 2nd ed rules to fix a lot of balance and game issues.

Yeah I want a 2nd ed.

It's entirely possible that with the release of the new film there will be a new starter set though.

There's zero evidence to even suggest that.

It's entirely possible that with the release of the new film there will be a new starter set though.

There's zero evidence to even suggest that.

The point I'm making is we, as in not the developers, are not privy to what is in the works. It is possible that a new game line with the new ships could be implemented, as marketing wise, it differentiates the new product from the movies with that of the originals. If the game was to be sold in a store like Walmart or toys r us, the separate packagingand branding would make sense. To the previous x-wing game fans and people in the 'know' it seems illogical and unneeded, but for the parents, grandparents, guardians or anyone not knowledgeable in Star Wars, a game line specifically set up for the Force Awakens makes it easier for these 'muggles' to purchase something related to the new movie.

Is this guaranteed? No. Is there evidence? Not directly, but past examples of products through the years and knowledge of marketing certainly makes it possible.

It's entirely possible that with the release of the new film there will be a new starter set though.

There's zero evidence to even suggest that.

Don't flame me for asking, I'm just looking for opinions.

Does anyone else think that in a miniatures game where successive waves of pieces are released, a company needs to institute some sort of retirement policy?

First, and I only mention this because as I see it, each new wave needs to have something new and exciting to "change the game." This is often the big selling point. If the mechanics are playtested well, then power creep should be held to a minimum. Additionally, in this game's format, the company could always put a new torpedo or astromech droid in the expansion that is meant to mesh better with an x-wing or tie fighter than what it is actually packaged with, thus getting players to drag out those old ships and try new things. That being said, power creep does happen and needs to be managed somehow.

Second, as a veteran of several other TTSGs, without retirement you discourage new players from entering the game and competing with those who have been in the game since the beginning. Right now that doesn't seem like a big deal, because the beginning wasn't all that long ago and the number of ships is relatively small. I hope that the game sticks around a long time and eventually there are hundreds of ships to choose from, but eventually a new player is going to get shut out by the guy that has the "r-wing that came out a couple of years ago, loaded with this gear that came with the tie spectacular expansion, and oh by the way to field that particular 32 point ship you are going to have to drop $$$ or you're never going to be competitive." Then little Betty walks away from the game because as cool as it is, no one wants to loose all the time.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the game remain perfectly balanced from now 'til eternity, and I would rather that my hard earned money be spent on ships that can be used competitively forever. I think that FFG is doing a great job of allowing a minimum of disruptive elements to make it into circulation and keeping every ship at least somewhat relevant. I just don't want to see this game go the way of soooo many others and loose possible players (and customers) because we the community are being unrealistic about the dynamics of this type of game.

All that being said, If there were going to be a retirement policy, would you rather know about it in advance, or simply let the announcements come out when new sets are released?

Like I said, don't flame me, I'm just trying to open a realistic dialog.

missedtrashday

I suggest you research the effect that "retirement" had on Wizkids when they did it then get back to me. The company is a pale reflection of what it once was and for all their missteps and screw ups retirement ruined them with the player base. The same thing happened to the mini games WotC did in the same timeframe.

Just because hard core card floppers willing accept things like the abomination called "retirement" doesn't mean that non card floppers or even the casual ones will accept it outside of card games. History has spoken and I doubt FFG wants to make that gamble that the odds almost always lean heavily to a loss.

I also want to point out that the idea that new players can't compete with veterans without "retirement" is disingenuous in relation to this game. In card games, with the sheer amount of cards produced and the purposely built in rarity on the "good" cards from past sets retirement has some merit only due to the fact some sets will just not be available to a newcomer. But for x wing everything from the first release to the latest is officially available you just might have to wait till the next batch reaches retailers and any rarity it due to consumer demand not FFG making them rare intentionally. So no rarity with everything available means no barrier to entry for new players other than their perceptions not any actual facts.

In the end, at least for myself, any "retirement" scheme would end my purchases of this games products straight away.

The retirement of miniatures has been done in other miniature games of a semi-similar quality as X-Wing: Meaning minis that come with everything you need to play with them in the game.

(Referring here to WizKids games like Mage-Knight and MechWarrior: Dark Age.)

Yeah, Wizkids is not a good thing to take ideas from. This is a company that has had to stop setting up a retail booth at Gencon because of them trying to frenzy up the neckbeards, and blaming everyone else when it blows up in their face.

People do forget how far WK has fallen haven't they? The truth is any game company should look to WK and make a point to not do anything WK has done just to be safe.

...

I also want to point out that the idea that new players can't compete with veterans without "retirement" is disingenuous in relation to this game. In card games, with the sheer amount of cards produced and the purposely built in rarity on the "good" cards from past sets retirement has some merit only due to the fact some sets will just not be available to a newcomer. But for x wing everything from the first release to the latest is officially available you just might have to wait till the next batch reaches retailers and any rarity it due to consumer demand not FFG making them rare intentionally. So no rarity with everything available means no barrier to entry for new players other than their perceptions not any actual facts.

In the end, at least for myself, any "retirement" scheme would end my purchases of this games products straight away.

In X-Wing I might even say the new player has the advantage when it comes to buying into the game over the veteran. It's true that the vet has had more time to buy things but the new player is basically going to pay exactly the same for the same stuff. Where the new player gets the edge is in simply knowing more about what to buy when compared to the vet who may have purchased multiples to get something back when but that something is now easier to get. A few examples were the newbie probably has the purchasing advantage:

X-Wings: The vet may have purchased four X-Wings via Core and Expansion but then felt the need to get the Rebel Transport for the additional pilots. The newbie may just purchase a core, expansion, and transport to get three X-Wings knowing that four are rarely ran but if they want four he'd probably just get another core.

PtL: The Vet purchased 4 A-Wings to get these for his Interceptors after which the A-Wings sat on the shelf. The Newbie may still get an A-Wing but for this expansion would be getting Imperial Aces which includes two copies along with providing the ship it most often goes on. While we're on the topic...

Interceptors: The vet may have purchased five of these before getting more via ImpAces. Granted the newbie would still need five expansions to run all Alphas or Avengers having on Expansion and ImpAces will often come very close to filling anyone's Interceptor need.

Other cards that multiples may be wanted which led to vets buying 'extras' before they were reprinted in other sources include Advanced Sensors, HLC, Stealth Device. Some look forward to additional sources for Engine Upgrade and other cards.

Now to be honest, I'd almost like to see a reimagined Core Set when the new movie comes out although I'd still be leaving the core rules of the game alone.

I really don't know if there will ever be a 2.0. I do know that if this game wasn't Star Wars it would already be in mothballs. The problem isn't that the game can't be balanced or that it's not fun or even that it's mechanically flawed. The problem is that 50% of the cards (ships and upgrades) don't get used 95% of the time. It does seem that FFG is getting better at having good-as-is releases. But this is a problem.

If there's money in it FFG will do it. Whether that's a version 2.0 or ships from the prequel, regardless of what they've said or what the Legion fans say.

As on another thread, I have to ask whether you have any evidence for that or whether you're just speculating. And furthermore, what proportion of game elements need to be regularly used--and at what events, with what level of success--to warrant the game staying out of mothballs?

My evidence is the complete lack of any other widely popular games which only use half their content 95%of the time without having recreated or rebranded themselves with a new version. Perhaps you can think of one or two Vorpal but I can't. At the very least they are extremely rare. As evidenced by X Wing the proportion of game elements which need to be relevant is directly related to the popularity of the game or of it subject premise. This is not warranted it is mandated by consumers who don't enjoy paying for things they only use half of and have much less patience for it if they don't have a Ionic brand (Star Wars) behind it.

Umm, I'm pretty most competitive games have a ton of "useless" stuff. I also suspect that your view of "balance" is far, far too demanding.

My evidence is the complete lack of any other widely popular games which only use half their content 95%of the time without having recreated or rebranded themselves with a new version. Perhaps you can think of one or two Vorpal but I can't. At the very least they are extremely rare. As evidenced by X Wing the proportion of game elements which need to be relevant is directly related to the popularity of the game or of it subject premise. This is not warranted it is mandated by consumers who don't enjoy paying for things they only use half of and have much less patience for it if they don't have a Ionic brand (Star Wars) behind it.

Although they are no longer with us I would simply point to the WotC mini games as GREAT examples where over 50% of the content wasn't used 95% of the time. I guess if you want to say "content" was anything in a booster box then the number probably changes but if that is the measure than if you buy a Defender for the Predator upgrade you're still using the 'content' of that package.

DDM has a some minor corrections about three sets in but when it actually made real changes the game pretty much died to me and I'm sure to many others. There may have been updates to old minis in DDM 2.0 but the damage was done.

It's entirely possible that with the release of the new film there will be a new starter set though.

There's zero evidence to even suggest that.

Seriously?

With all the hype and hoopla of the new movie, all the new and old fans, all of the potential new X-Wing players that may come as a result?

It would be common business sense to release a starter set with the new X-Wing and TIE from the new movie.

Will it be a "New Starter" as in 2.0 of the rules - who knows?

But a "New Starter" which is otherwise identical to the current starter but with Episode VII ships? Almost certainly.

We don't even know the films any good, what if it's prequel bad that will drive people away.

Keeping the core game as the OT is by far the best strategy because those will always be beloved classics.

New x-wing and ties if released can be done through expansions.

I think a new starter wouldn't hurt; they could do a resistance T-70 X-Wing and two First Order TIE fighters, a rulebook featuring an expanded rulebook featuring all the FAQ items, large and huge ship rules.

Also, a new set of intro missions, and all the normal templates etc. It'd be a good way to bring the rules up to date under one roof, as well as introduce two new factions to the game.

Just my thoughts

We don't even know the films any good, what if it's prequel bad that will drive people away.

No, we don't know if they'll be any good, and yes they may be so bad to drive people away.

It could also be the opposite.

With the public announcement by FFG and Lucasfilm of their ongoing licensing commitment, and common business sense, it would seem inevitable that we will see the new ships in X-Wing, no matter how bad the movies may actually turn out to be.

OTOH, even if the new movie is bad, the new miniatures are really not that objectionable are they? I mean - they're still TIE's and X-Wings, still aesthetically "Star Wars" (arguably more so than most EU ships)

Okay... but if they don't update the rules, but release a new starter with the Episode VII X-Wing and TIE to cash in on the new movie, where's the problem?

If the new movie tanks, they can always revert back to the CT starter at a later date...

Keeping the core game as the OT is by far the best strategy because those will always be beloved classics.

Core game yes. You must have iconic SW ships.

When was the last OT release? FFG has been digging deeper and deeper into the EU salad. I agree that keeping the game as OT as possible is best, but all OT options are exhausted. Your average Joe Blow wouldn't recognise half the ships or names on the table.

Getting recognisable ships back on the board HAS to be a win for the game if they want to keep existing fans and maybe lure in new ones.

When was the last OT release? FFG has been digging deeper and deeper into the EU salad. I agree that keeping the game as OT as possible is best, but all OT options are exhausted. Your average Joe Blow wouldn't recognise half the ships or names on the table.

Rebel Aces.

If FFG were to have a release something for the new movies, they'd need to have the product out by year end. Since wave 7 was announced, it doesn't seem likely they will have anything.

That being said, I would like to see a new refreshed core set that is compatibl.

...Cthulhu Sith lords.

Cthulhu Sith Lords. I would ABSOLUTELY buy this.Hell- throw in Sauron and Tywin Lannister for good measure (and some Dark Eldar thing from whatever WH40K is?...), and you have some of the most bad-ass evil doers of all time. Where is my cross-LCG tie-in big box expansion? I want to mix my Sith/Imperial Navy deck with my KiY/Nyarly deck with my Lannister deck with my Weyland deck with my...actually I don't play the LotR LCG, but if I did, you could be damned sure that Sauron in all his asskicking enormity would be there!

did that make sense?

Keeping the core game as the OT is by far the best strategy because those will always be beloved classics.

Core game yes. You must have iconic SW ships.

When was the last OT release? FFG has been digging deeper and deeper into the EU salad. I agree that keeping the game as OT as possible is best, but all OT options are exhausted. Your average Joe Blow wouldn't recognise half the ships or names on the table.

Getting recognisable ships back on the board HAS to be a win for the game if they want to keep existing fans and maybe lure in new ones.

Exactly.

And for the average movie goer and casual star wars fan, the new episode VII X-Wing and TIE Fighters are recognisably "Classic" ships. If you showed them to someone in the street they'd identify them as Star Wars spaceships despite the different paint schemes (and physical shape in some instances)

If FFG were to have a release something for the new movies, they'd need to have the product out by year end. Since wave 7 was announced, it doesn't seem likely they will have anything.

Would they have to though?

Sure - if they wanted something in the stores when the movie hits theatres, then yes, but otherwise, Q1 2016 would still work even if the movie is only moderately successful.

What if they shipped a new starter (same rules) with the new X-Wing and TIEs (one of each TIE?) for Christmas and then shipped Wave 8 early 2016 with the same ships included (along with others)...

I really don't know if there will ever be a 2.0. I do know that if this game wasn't Star Wars it would already be in mothballs. The problem isn't that the game can't be balanced or that it's not fun or even that it's mechanically flawed. The problem is that 50% of the cards (ships and upgrades) don't get used 95% of the time. It does seem that FFG is getting better at having good-as-is releases. But this is a problem.

If there's money in it FFG will do it. Whether that's a version 2.0 or ships from the prequel, regardless of what they've said or what the Legion fans say.

As on another thread, I have to ask whether you have any evidence for that or whether you're just speculating. And furthermore, what proportion of game elements need to be regularly used--and at what events, with what level of success--to warrant the game staying out of mothballs?

I'm all for a second edition. The game needed some tweeks last year, but this year those tweeks have become gaping breaches. The spirit of the game's identity as a dog fighting game is under siege. Sweeping change needs to be added to give the edge back to the small based ship vs large based ones.

Or...

They can replace the X-wing and the Tie Fighter that comes in the starter box with a Falcon and a Decimator.

The word is "tweak", and other than your blind assertion I don't see a good reason to think things are getting worse for X-wing in any sense.

And things like "the spirit of the game's identity" are so vague and idiosyncratic as to be useless for communication.

Tweek you the wrong way, did I, my beamish boy?

I'm so glad we have internet George Zimmerman's like you patrolling our wired neighborhoods ready to pounce on any hoodlums who would dare to use deviant spelling or *gasp* make a blind assertion...ON THE INTERNET EVEN?

Well, I'm sure you've never since you surely are an authority on "good reason" and "sense".

I don't think it's too vague to assert that the identity of a game based on dog fighting is in jeopardy when the most successful ship builds feature turret using, large based ships with huge amounts of points invested in them. It's not dog fighting and that blood well isn't cricket! My assertion that the spirit of the game was being assaulted is based on the fact that the starter set comes with three small based ships that rely on dog fighting tactics to succeed.

But I admit that my supposition regarding the spirit of the game is based on some tenuous evidence. Mainly, the absence of FFG doing anything to curb the fat turrets. I think I've deduced the reason for this. I've read many posts from players who think the X-Wing is an "iconic" ship and therefore should have some sort of edge over the rest. Their reasoning is erroneously based on the assumption that the game is named X-Wing, ergo it should be the best fighter in the game. A famous funny man said yo should never assume. Butt, irregardless of this, it is evident that the fellows at FFG think that the Falcon is far more "iconic" than the game's namesake. Or more to the point, Han and Chewie are more iconic.

This can be hardly debated.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, the admin where I work has blocked FFG's forum so I have to wait till I come home to reply to my posts. Caloo callay, have a frabjuous day tomorrow.