Using Betterridge’s law of headlines. No.

My guess is also no, but leaning towards maybe, and I'll show why it could be yes. Only if an X-wing 2.0 is profitable, doesn't leave existing X-wing players stranded, functional, and fun can it work. (All while putting fun in FUNctional).

Also a warning, this is a TL;DR so if you are a forum flash and burn, you may want to bypass this one.

Here is why (the answer is NO):

FFG has done a spectacular job in balancing out ships with releases. Better than most other (mini/LCG/CCG) I have seen. Nothing is perfect but simply put, skill of the player will outdo a specific list, accommodating for ‘variance’ in dice rolls.

• There is really nothing broken with the overall game.
• Not all ships cards in a set are meant to be desirable.
• Except for a few cards that are only available with some sets there is no real game breaker that isn’t available to the casual player.
• The demand is still there.

Here is why (The answer is MAYBE):

As you start adding more and more to a game for some aspects that were not designed from the beginning you are going to have some deviation of stats and capabilities that need to be tweaked. I'm not saying X-wing is going like StarCraft with a 3rd race, but maybe it is getting close. Technically if I put any 100 points vs another 100 points of most ship cases the game should be relatively equal. But that is not always the case, not all ships are meant for the same type of combat that is portrayed in the game.

Take the wave 1 for an example, TIE Advance and the Y-wing. Both ships were formidable for certain roles, TIE Advance was the only ship with Missiles and was a game changer in the first 1-2 rounds. The Y-wing was the only ship that could use ION capabilities and only ship with a 360 firing arc. Now that more and more ships are being added their initial costing and effectiveness has been semi-diluted. (This is when “the patch” is needed). Not to say a Y-wing isn't good, it is just not as good as it used to be. And poor TIE ADV....well, just read the forums.

On a computer it is easy to fudge numbers going ok X-didn’t work here is patch 2.0.1, when dealing with a physical printer, not so much as it costs some cash and effort.

In a perfect galaxy far far away equal points on both sides “should” be semi-equal only offset by the skill of the player without being too much decision theory and where the game is only based upon the actions of the move of the opposing player.

Here is why (It could move from maybe to YES):

Because it can make a sale.

There would be a box of X-wing 2.0 that would "fix/adjust” everything? It could be released in similar packaging to how NetRunner has major expansions? A mid sized box with 3 copies of big pilot and small cards? Who wouldn't like a purchasable 3 extra HLC’s? Or updates to TIE ADV pilot point totals and pilots or cards only available on big ships.

There is something to be said to be able to give something the fanbase wants, clean up a bit of design regret, and make a sale that would leave both parties happy. This could totally happen. And… that mid sized box could have a nifty insert for holding small FFG sleeved cards. This is probably the most win/win situation if it were to happen.

Thanks for reading my wall of text.

Yeah, there is no maybe about it. The game is selling too well for them to even consider such a move. Did you see their sales pie chart from the In-flight Report? And that is especially impressive considering that they dropped Dust over a year ago. And they are introducing big box expansions to X-wing, the major expansions you mentioned for the LCGs, in Most Wanted. I do hope we get similar products for the other factions.

Its no where near the state where they have to do a 2nd edition yet there are a few niggles sure but by and large it all still works really well together unlike 40k which is just a horrible mess of contradictory rules and that just got a new edition.

I'd actually be okay with that last suggestion about the large expansion box. An expansion that contained new pilots for all or many of the existing ships along with new upgrades would be well received.

The upside for FFG in creating a cards only expansion is that it would likely sell ships that people don't already own but would now have pilots for by way of the expansion.

I'm also a fan of the idea of a faction neutral ship. Imagine something that had the same generic pilots, but different named pilots for each faction.

I like how every perceived problem in the OP is immediately solved if you treat X-wing Miniatures like a fun Star Wars themed space combat game and not a competitive sport...

It isn't broken so why would they fix it. X-wing is a very balenced game on the whole and when comparing it to other miniatures games then it's perfect. FFG have done a great job at updating older wave ships when they do a new release. Once they start releasing new editions they will lose customers, and groups of ppl will stay with the old edition and not buy new releases.

I like how every perceived problem in the OP is immediately solved if you treat X-wing Miniatures like a fun Star Wars themed space combat game and not a competitive sport...

You could say the same about absolutely everything. "I just don't care that much about... X" summarizes it.

Realize in the first paragraph, my guess is no.

Also with varying powers on sides balancing 2 opposing sides is easier than juggling 3. It is food for thought because there usually is that much retooling to promote a level playing field without a game becoming rock-paper-scissors.

Obviously this is their biggest seller from the inflight report. Each year so far FFG gets more aggressive with what they release. They will probably end up releasing much more than we know of, or that FFG can capably produce.

Obviously FFG's biggest issue with the game is the supply chain.

Or FFG will just start slapping SW on everything and we all await the expansion of "Android: This is the expansion you are looking for" or Cthulhu Sith lords.

Yes, they are getting more aggressive with their releases. But, I don't see them getting too far ahead of themselves. FFG is not Wizkids, they know how to stagger their releases. We are not seeing the shortages we used to, where a batch of product only lasts 1-2 months. Yes, the wait for the reprints is annoying, but the current situation is far, far better than it was upon release of Wave 1 and 2.

I think FFG has stated that sales are what will determine when a line will be retired and retooled for a second edition. Considering that X-wing is sort of accelerating, all talk of a second edition is foolish.

Roll on 2.0, lets hope it sorts out the imbalance creeping into the game and helps to make it fun again

Even if I do think there are some imbalances in the game, I don't think we're there yet to have a 2.0 box.

I trust that FFG is going to be long-term greedy with this game. Certainly their customer support sounds like they're wiling to eat significant costs in order to keep their existing customers happy, so that speaks to long-term preference at a company-wise level. I haven't played enough of their other games to know more. But I trust that they're long-term greedy.

Given that FFG is scalping GW's burnouts, and GW seems (to me) to have a short-term greedy corporate culture, I would imagine that they feel they have an interest in being the anti-GW in the way that they husband their games. That, to my mind, means that they shouldn't to the edition switcheroo which makes certain investments that their customers have made obsolete in a swift fell stroke.

That said, I do think there will be a moment when the imbalances do become so burdensome that we'll be crying out for a fix. When that happens, I hope they give Vorpal Sword and Major Juggler a job in seeing what fixes would put game fun and balance on a sure footing for the long haul. I hope that whatever fixes that includes would be of minimal impact on our wallets. I imagine it could be done with a set of 2.0 cards that have new point values to them, and maybe some tweaked abilities.

Cards shouldn't have to cost that much, and maybe they could make it so that anyone with proofs of purchase can log their collection with FFG, FFG could mail them the upgrade cards free of charge. While that would be costly, it would also get their customer base registered in their database, which would be invaluable as strategic intelligence on their market.

But, like I said, I don't think we're near that stage.

no

it isn't broken, it does not need fixing

I enjoy buying new ships. I don't think I would enjoy having to purchase a rules update (new edition).

I think that might alienate players, forcing them to buy a new core rule set to continue playing? no thanks.

really isn't that what the FAQ/rules update is for?

the biggest point I have is be careful what you ask for. FFG clearly reads their forums. there were some who thought there would never be a third faction, I believe the many debates about 3rd faction here are what made it happen. self-fulfilling prophecy, speak of the devil, what ever you want to call it. I am not superstitious, I can just see where money can be made. (and so can FFG marketing)

is this really the idea we want to put into the designers heads?

lets go back to talking about imperial large/huge ships and aces packs.....

the biggest point I have is be careful what you ask for. FFG clearly reads their forums. there were some who thought there would never be a third faction, I believe the many debates about 3rd faction here are what made it happen. self-fulfilling prophecy, speak of the devil, what ever you want to call it. I am not superstitious, I can just see where money can be made. (and so can FFG marketing)

I do think that they probably peruse these forums leisurely on a rare occasion, but I doubt that they take that much heed of it. It would take a LOT of sifting through this in order to get much insight out of the forum. Also, they're 18 months ahead of us in terms of knowing what's going to come out. So, from their perspective, all that we're doing is last-year quarterbacking.

My guess would be no, for all the reasons stated above, What i can see them doing is a new version of the core set with the fighters from the new movie

The important point for FFG is, would a new edition be a good move from a marketing perspective? And at this point I think the answer is no. It would potentially alienate a lot of players, and I don't see it being worth what they would gain (if anything). At some point in the future, sure, but I think there's a lot of ground to cover before we get to that point.

Realize in the first paragraph, my guess is no.

Also with varying powers on sides balancing 2 opposing sides is easier than juggling 3. It is food for thought because there usually is that much retooling to promote a level playing field without a game becoming rock-paper-scissors.

Obviously this is their biggest seller from the inflight report. Each year so far FFG gets more aggressive with what they release. They will probably end up releasing much more than we know of, or that FFG can capably produce.

Obviously FFG's biggest issue with the game is the supply chain.

Or FFG will just start slapping SW on everything and we all await the expansion of "Android: This is the expansion you are looking for" or Cthulhu Sith lords.

2.0 -- Bring it on.

I agree with your first point about how the early wave ships are getting deprecated as the power creep rolls on. Also, Ordinance needs to addressed in a general fix. They either need to make it cheaper to use, or increase its effectiveness or they can just admit that they don't think ordinance should play a significant role in non-epic games.

I see that people here are saying that FFG wont mess with the game because "why change a good thing". If they want to change things, It doesn't have to make sense to us. And profit is a perfectly valid reason for pulling a change. I'd rather buy a mid sized box full of pilot cards and upgrades that are re-balanced than to have to house-rule stuff. If that's too much of an investment for some people, that's tough. Mini's games are harder on a wallet than a crack habit. Mini's gamers will shell out for a good game with sexy models, but as we've seen from the mass exodus of 40K players, no company is immune to Imba Fatigue. Sure the fluff bunnies will stay behind and that might even be enough to keep a game afloat (see WH30K). But all you're going to be is a nice market at that point.

I'm not terribly familiar with the broad scope of the entire FFG catalog, but I don't seem to recall that they're a company that's in the habit of re-issuing games on a v.2.0 basis. Granted, they've never really had a runaway financial success like X-Wing that I'm aware of.

The comparison between FFG and GW is a bit off though to me. FFG isn't, as far as I'm aware, a publicly traded company so they have no need to ensure that they're always able to issue quarterly dividend payments to their shareholders. GW is not the same company they were before they went public. The same was true with TSR before they were bought out - D&D didn't have significant changes made to it for years. It wasn't until WotC/Hasbro took charge that the constant changes/updates/reboots started happening. If FFG is private, there's a quiet joy in knowing you only need to keep your balance sheets healthy - which certainly is what it looks like they're doing with the success of X-Wing right now.

Besides, as many have said above me... if you have a product you can barely keep in stock, it doesn't really suggest that a re-tool is needed.

Except, I am pretty certain that we do have FFG's view on new editions. IE sales are what determine the retirement of an old game, while a new one is developed. I love FFG, but I don't fail to see their profit motive (the IG-2000 title is rather hilarious this way).

And, does it really matter if the older ships see less play, if they are STILL selling? I mean, we have another batch of reprints on the way of nearly everything they have released. They are not going to risk their golden goose for some random ideal of a better game. We are no where even close to where Descent was when 1st was retired.

I like how every perceived problem in the OP is immediately solved if you treat X-wing Miniatures like a fun Star Wars themed space combat game and not a competitive sport...

You could say the same about absolutely everything. "I just don't care that much about... X" summarizes it.

Not true at all - I'm very passionate about x-wing. £400/weekly games passionate. I just don't have my ability to enjoy the game hindered by a lack of knife-edge balance. There are 5 ways to enjoy x-wing, not just 100pt competitive.

The comparison between FFG and GW is a bit off though to me. FFG isn't, as far as I'm aware, a publicly traded company so they have no need to ensure that they're always able to issue quarterly dividend payments to their shareholders. GW is not the same company they were before they went public. The same was true with TSR before they were bought out - D&D didn't have significant changes made to it for years. It wasn't until WotC/Hasbro took charge that the constant changes/updates/reboots started happening. If FFG is private, there's a quiet joy in knowing you only need to keep your balance sheets healthy - which certainly is what it looks like they're doing with the success of X-Wing right now.

I was looking up the timeline of GW this morning. I remember that I bought in to WFB just at the moment when the 4th edition box came out, rather than the 3rd edition book. It was clear at that point what kind of company they were going to be, and that was before they went public. It was the vision of Bryan Ansell, who actually had GW bought out by its own spun-off daughter company, Citadel Miniatures, if I remember my history correctly on this. But anyway, Ansell took control of GW in 1991 and it went public in 1994. So, I take it that GW's direction was determined by Ansell, who probably decided to take it public and make a LOT of money doing so. I don't think it was the machinations of evil shareholders or anything.

And, does it really matter if the older ships see less play, if they are STILL selling? I mean, we have another batch of reprints on the way of nearly everything they have released. They are not going to risk their golden goose for some random ideal of a better game. We are no where even close to where Descent was when 1st was retired.

I think it matters a great deal! I got into this game because of TIE fighters and X-Wings. Sure, I'm happy to see the Millennium Falcon flying around, but I don't have any resonance with Phantoms, Defenders, or YT-2400s. I'm not an anti-EUite, but it has to remain Star Wars at its core, and that means that the older ships should remain at the center of the game, IMO.

I like how every perceived problem in the OP is immediately solved if you treat X-wing Miniatures like a fun Star Wars themed space combat game and not a competitive sport...

You could say the same about absolutely everything. "I just don't care that much about... X" summarizes it.

Not true at all - I'm very passionate about x-wing. £400/weekly games passionate. I just don't have my ability to enjoy the game hindered by a lack of knife-edge balance. There are 5 ways to enjoy x-wing, not just 100pt competitive.

Huh ? I didn't say you don't care about Xwing, hell we are both posting on Xwing's forums, if anything, that proves already we are both passionate about it.

"I just don't care that much about .... competitive aspect of Xwing", yes the problems would go away. I included a X, because that's pretty much what happens to everything you enjoy one way and while that part is untouched, you don't mind what happens to the rest of the aspects of the game.

wadafak did i just read.

I imagine that IF FF did a 2.0 X-Wing, it would be handled more like Wyrd did Malifaux and less like GW does Warhammer.

The way Wyrd did it was release a $15 new rule book and packs of cards for each faction coming in at $8 that updated every model in the respective faction. Most had an edition switch cost of $23 unless they played multiple factions.

Now X-Wings rulebook is much smaller than Malifauxs. I imagine X-Wing would have similar 2.0 "upgrade kits" that would include both updated pilot/upgrade cards and the new rules. The question is would they do this by faction or an all in one box. Of coarse things get complicated if they alter the maneuvers different ships have access to as that would require the distribution of new cardboard.

I imagine that IF FF did a 2.0 X-Wing, it would be handled more like Wyrd did Malifaux and less like GW does Warhammer.

The way Wyrd did it was release a $15 new rule book and packs of cards for each faction coming in at $8 that updated every model in the respective faction. Most had an edition switch cost of $23 unless they played multiple factions.

Now X-Wings rulebook is much smaller than Malifauxs. I imagine X-Wing would have similar 2.0 "upgrade kits" that would include both updated pilot/upgrade cards and the new rules. The question is would they do this by faction or an all in one box. Of coarse things get complicated if they alter the maneuvers different ships have access to as that would require the distribution of new cardboard.

Yeah GW takes the pee with their £50 rule books that are padded out with previously published material and photo shopped images.

An important thing to remember is that GWs frequent revisions are not actually an attempt to balance there game. It's solely an attempt to sell more product. GW is not a gaming company, they've stated themselves they are in the business of making miniatures the game comes second. Otherwise you wouldn't see instances where one faction gets a new codec while others aren't touched for years.

Privateer Press has done a MK2 revision, and they did so because of distinct power creep and rules bloat. And this was after ten or so years and a much larger product catalog. They did it via a new rulebook and packs of new cards for each faction.

X-wing may get a MK2, but frankly is a long way from any of the reasons actual gaming companies revise editions.