I've been wanting to cram Horton Salm into a rebel list ever since reading the X-Wing: Rogue Squadron series. With rebel aces and wave five, I think I have the tools to build a functional list around Salm, taking advantage of his ability. It's got problems competitively speaking; it's not designed to take down fat Han or Whisper, but I think this is may be good for some mid-level play. Here's the list as of now:

Horton Salm w/ Ion Torpedoes, Proton Torpedoes, R2-D6, PTL (38)

Prototype Pilot w/ Proton Rockets (20)

Prototype Pilot w/ Proton Rockets (20)

Prototype Pilot w/ Proton Rockets (20)

-98 points

I've got a couple of points rattling around, and Horton is over-loaded with ordnance, but bear with me. Here's the battle plan:

In the first engagement, at long range, Salm PTLs to focus and TL, and fires off his Ion torpedo at the center of any enemy formation. The torpedo has a good chance of hitting; Salm is built to deliver torpedoes.

The A-wings try to pick up any target locks they can, but their main job is to stay alive for the next turn, and given their low PS they will probably focus or evade. I expect Salm will be the primary target, and it's possible that he will go down turn 1, but the Ion Torp delivery is his most important job.

In the second shooting round, with the enemy formation Ioned, the Prototype pilots move into blocking positions for the second engagement, taking focus actions so they can fire off rockets. Ideally, the enemy formation will bump into the A-wings and with each other, and actions will be denied across the enemy formation.

The A-Wings take this chance to unload Proton rockets, and if alive, Salm puts his second torpedo into any ship threatening the A-Wings. He will probably die that round, though. After that round, hopefully enough enemy ships have been taken out that the prototypes can clean up.

What do you think? Does this look fun? Will it give me a game with Salm that doesn't leave me with a bad taste in my mouth? What should I do with the last two points?

38 points is a lot for a ship whose only job is to deliver a torpedo. If it works, it works well, and the A-wings will do some serious damage. But if it fails? Well, now we're left with 3 A-wings.

looks fun but I think it's too ordinance heavy, but maybe not where you think--

I think you should drop some of the ordinance on the A-wings, and change one of the A-wings for Biggs.

Ive tried dual torps Y-wings and you NEED Deadeye to make the munitions worthwhile, which necessitates R2-D6 in your droid slot. I'd also be tempted to take Munitions Failsafe. Ignore the turret slot as its wasted points until you're done with munitions, which is unlikely to happen - youll keep missing OR get shot down first. 2 torps + failsafe will last most of a game.

You will need agile flankers and attackers to get into range 1 of your opponent and slow them down - the A-wings do a good job of this, though personally i wouldn't give them all Proton rockets. Maybe upgrade one to a green squadron pilot and give them Chardan refit and A-wing test pilot, so they can stock up on a pair of great EPTs like Predator and Outmaneuver.

Ive tried dual torps Y-wings and you NEED Deadeye to make the munitions worthwhile, which necessitates R2-D6 in your droid slot. I'd also be tempted to take Munitions Failsafe. Ignore the turret slot as its wasted points until you're done with munitions, which is unlikely to happen - youll keep missing OR get shot down first. 2 torps + failsafe will last most of a game.

You will need agile flankers and attackers to get into range 1 of your opponent and slow them down - the A-wings do a good job of this, though personally i wouldn't give them all Proton rockets. Maybe upgrade one to a green squadron pilot and give them Chardan refit and A-wing test pilot, so they can stock up on a pair of great EPTs like Predator and Outmaneuver.

Horton's ability and pilot skill make deadeye a lot less important.

Ive tried dual torps Y-wings and you NEED Deadeye to make the munitions worthwhile, which necessitates R2-D6 in your droid slot. I'd also be tempted to take Munitions Failsafe. Ignore the turret slot as its wasted points until you're done with munitions, which is unlikely to happen - youll keep missing OR get shot down first. 2 torps + failsafe will last most of a game.

You will need agile flankers and attackers to get into range 1 of your opponent and slow them down - the A-wings do a good job of this, though personally i wouldn't give them all Proton rockets. Maybe upgrade one to a green squadron pilot and give them Chardan refit and A-wing test pilot, so they can stock up on a pair of great EPTs like Predator and Outmaneuver.

Horton's ability and pilot skill make deadeye a lot less important.

Arguably, but if you don't have Deadeye you are forced into doing nothing but getting target locks - which tells your opponent who you are aiming at, and they will try and move them out of Horton's arc or do things like Expert Handling which stops you firing torps. With Deadeye you are taking a Focus action - that tells them only that you MIGHT want to fire your torps, or are just hedging your bets, and unless they can strip the Focus token off you (very few things can do this, and they most likely won't be acting before you) then you can always fire at any target within your arc.

So yeah, i'd say its definitely still important.

Horton's PS8 should be high enough to let you TL and immediately let go of 1 torp. If that is not enough, VI into PS10 would give you a lot more returns than Deadeye, since you can continue to enjoy the benefits after you have exhausted your torps.

Horton's PS8 should be high enough to let you TL and immediately let go of 1 torp. If that is not enough, VI into PS10 would give you a lot more returns than Deadeye, since you can continue to enjoy the benefits after you have exhausted your torps.

True; I was counting on PS8 to facilitate that first torpedo shot. VI is probably more useful than deadeye because of that, but I went with PTL so that when I shot the first torp, I'd get rererolls on blanks from Horton, and could also focus eyeballs into hits after. It's virtually the same as TL+focus for offensive dice modification.

The reason it's an Ion torpedo is because the crowd control you get from that torpedo is a vital part of Proton Rocket delivery. I need to know where the enemy formation is going to be next turn to block/drop Proton rocks on them. Horton's Ion Torp is going to do that every time I go up against anything like a formation. If Horton gets focused down after that, that's too bad, but he's done a solid hit (from the Ion Torp), and set up for a proton rock face-smash the next turn. If he makes it to the second turn, he can probably let the proton torp rip before he gets taken down. In either case, shots made against Horton allow the A-wings a better chance to deliver their rocks.

looks fun but I think it's too ordinance heavy, but maybe not where you think--

I think you should drop some of the ordinance on the A-wings, and change one of the A-wings for Biggs.

Horton Salm (25)

Ion Torpedoes (5)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

R2-D6 (1)

Push the Limit (3)

Prototype Pilot (17)

Proton Rockets (3)

Prototype Pilot (17)

Biggs Darklighter (25)

Total: 100

Biggs can ensure that your blockers get in place and hopefully even get some proton rockets off before they're dusted.

This is an interesting twist; but I don't know if it takes full advantage of the crowd control offered by Ion Torps. Proton rockets are deadly if you can get them off, but they're hard to set up, especially on prototype pilots, at PS1. Including Biggs keeps Horton up longer and makes sure that the As make it in, but Horton's not useful after the second turn; not without an ICT. And dropping two Proton rocks is a tough hit to the offensive power on that second round of shooting.

I can appreciate wanting to use a bomber to bomb stuff but its a big risk even five dice can fail you if you cant modify them.

Horton's PS8 should be high enough to let you TL and immediately let go of 1 torp. If that is not enough, VI into PS10 would give you a lot more returns than Deadeye, since you can continue to enjoy the benefits after you have exhausted your torps.

True; I was counting on PS8 to facilitate that first torpedo shot. VI is probably more useful than deadeye because of that, but I went with PTL so that when I shot the first torp, I'd get rererolls on blanks from Horton, and could also focus eyeballs into hits after. It's virtually the same as TL+focus for offensive dice modification.

The reason it's an Ion torpedo is because the crowd control you get from that torpedo is a vital part of Proton Rocket delivery. I need to know where the enemy formation is going to be next turn to block/drop Proton rocks on them. Horton's Ion Torp is going to do that every time I go up against anything like a formation. If Horton gets focused down after that, that's too bad, but he's done a solid hit (from the Ion Torp), and set up for a proton rock face-smash the next turn. If he makes it to the second turn, he can probably let the proton torp rip before he gets taken down. In either case, shots made against Horton allow the A-wings a better chance to deliver their rocks.

looks fun but I think it's too ordinance heavy, but maybe not where you think--

I think you should drop some of the ordinance on the A-wings, and change one of the A-wings for Biggs.

Horton Salm (25)

Ion Torpedoes (5)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

R2-D6 (1)

Push the Limit (3)

Prototype Pilot (17)

Proton Rockets (3)

Prototype Pilot (17)

Biggs Darklighter (25)

Total: 100

Biggs can ensure that your blockers get in place and hopefully even get some proton rockets off before they're dusted.

This is an interesting twist; but I don't know if it takes full advantage of the crowd control offered by Ion Torps. Proton rockets are deadly if you can get them off, but they're hard to set up, especially on prototype pilots, at PS1. Including Biggs keeps Horton up longer and makes sure that the As make it in, but Horton's not useful after the second turn; not without an ICT. And dropping two Proton rocks is a tough hit to the offensive power on that second round of shooting.

I was just thinking that I'd rather not rely on my opponent keeping his ships all in range 1 of eachother. Having both Biggs and the Ion Torpedo makes maneuvering and target selection a royal pain for your opponent. I wouldn't totally discount Salm after his torpedoes are gone--his ability is as good as a target lock if he has focus at range 2-3. Plus, in my list you still have one proton rocket, and Biggs is a 3 attack die ship.

I do like your list as is, but I just kinda worry about getting off the rockets before the A-wings blow up.

Horton's PS8 should be high enough to let you TL and immediately let go of 1 torp. If that is not enough, VI into PS10 would give you a lot more returns than Deadeye, since you can continue to enjoy the benefits after you have exhausted your torps.

True; I was counting on PS8 to facilitate that first torpedo shot. VI is probably more useful than deadeye because of that, but I went with PTL so that when I shot the first torp, I'd get rererolls on blanks from Horton, and could also focus eyeballs into hits after. It's virtually the same as TL+focus for offensive dice modification.

The reason it's an Ion torpedo is because the crowd control you get from that torpedo is a vital part of Proton Rocket delivery. I need to know where the enemy formation is going to be next turn to block/drop Proton rocks on them. Horton's Ion Torp is going to do that every time I go up against anything like a formation. If Horton gets focused down after that, that's too bad, but he's done a solid hit (from the Ion Torp), and set up for a proton rock face-smash the next turn. If he makes it to the second turn, he can probably let the proton torp rip before he gets taken down. In either case, shots made against Horton allow the A-wings a better chance to deliver their rocks.

looks fun but I think it's too ordinance heavy, but maybe not where you think--

I think you should drop some of the ordinance on the A-wings, and change one of the A-wings for Biggs.

Horton Salm (25)

Ion Torpedoes (5)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

R2-D6 (1)

Push the Limit (3)

Prototype Pilot (17)

Proton Rockets (3)

Prototype Pilot (17)

Biggs Darklighter (25)

Total: 100

Biggs can ensure that your blockers get in place and hopefully even get some proton rockets off before they're dusted.

This is an interesting twist; but I don't know if it takes full advantage of the crowd control offered by Ion Torps. Proton rockets are deadly if you can get them off, but they're hard to set up, especially on prototype pilots, at PS1. Including Biggs keeps Horton up longer and makes sure that the As make it in, but Horton's not useful after the second turn; not without an ICT. And dropping two Proton rocks is a tough hit to the offensive power on that second round of shooting.

I was just thinking that I'd rather not rely on my opponent keeping his ships all in range 1 of eachother. Having both Biggs and the Ion Torpedo makes maneuvering and target selection a royal pain for your opponent. I wouldn't totally discount Salm after his torpedoes are gone--his ability is as good as a target lock if he as focus at range 2-3. Plus, in my list you still have one proton rocket, and Biggs is a 3 attack die ship.

I do like your list as is, but I just kinda worry about getting off the rockets before the A-wings blow up.

It's a good point that the enemy needs to cooperate by staying in formation for the mass-proton rocks list to work. Also, Biggs is almost never a bad addition to a list. I'm also counting on people wanting to take down Salm first because there are so many points invested in him, rather than going after the real second-stage threat of the A-Wings. Plus, Salm's second torpedo should be able to do about as much damage as the proton rocks from the A-Wings. Your list is almost definitely more flexible than mine, in any case.

I can appreciate wanting to use a bomber to bomb stuff but its a big risk even five dice can fail you if you cant modify them.

Do you mean the proton rockets? Ion Torpedoes and Protons are both 4 dice. In any case, all of the ordnance shots should be getting modified; Proton rocks will have a focus token at least - and a TL+focus at best, and any torpedo Salm shoots benefits from his blank-reroll ability, not to mention a focus from PTL. All the ordnance shots in this list can be expected to perform; plus with the anticipated blocking of Ioned ships by PS1 a-wings, the enemy should be stuck with unmodified dice, not Salm & friends.

Like I said, I do like your list--it hits like a truck, but it's just a little more conditional than I'd like.

I, too, have been trying to find ways to get Horton into lists--his ability is crazy good--almost as good as Soontir and Keyan. He's just hamstrung by his ship and the ordinance--the two things his ability was designed around.

Horton's PS8 should be high enough to let you TL and immediately let go of 1 torp. If that is not enough, VI into PS10 would give you a lot more returns than Deadeye, since you can continue to enjoy the benefits after you have exhausted your torps.

VI really is awesome on Horton. Not too long ago I used him against a Whisper and Echo list and poor Echo had to burn his focus just to survive Horton's first salvo. Which was very fortunate for Horton's buddy, Echo's 4 attack dice then came up with two focus results . Darn near aced Echo and took the sting out Echo's attack and that's just one of the many times Horton's left me smiling at my opponents.

I've really enjoyed Horton +VI + Proton Torps x2.

(on a side note Whisper was turtling -- cloaked + evade -- for some reason)

Salm rerolls all his blanks and Proton Torps have a built in focus. He doesn't really need PTL.

I love that the crusty wishbone jock is getting some love here- and that it is paired with ordinance and A-Wings. I don't know how hard core the list is against more specialized lists, but it is really a fun one to think about!

Wes Janson pairs well with Horton Salm, to the point where I've even considered using R2-D6 to give him Opportunist! I like him in a list with other high-PS pilots, where his Proton Torpedoes are the obvious alpha strike that your opponent will panic-button against, but the other ships are good finishers.

I've wanted to try using Salm in an anti Whisper build. R2-D6 + VI + ion turret. I promise your opponent will think twice about engaging him!

Salm rerolls all his blanks and Proton Torps have a built in focus. He doesn't really need PTL.

PTL is primarily there for the ion torps. It doesn't help as much with protons but could still be useful there too. The ion torp shot is the more important of the two, thus PTL. It could be an over investment, but the list's hitting power in the second round of combat is lost if that torp fails to connect. The A-Wings need predictable targets to block and rock.

If you want regular ions you might be better off with the turret or the cannon. Ion Torpedoes are nice and explosive but they're also a one shot weapon.

I've wanted to try using Salm in an anti Whisper build. R2-D6 + VI + ion turret. I promise your opponent will think twice about engaging him!

Add in engine upgrades to make sure you can react to whatever whisper does and you're set

So I ran the build I posted in two games tonight, ordinance Horton can definitely be nasty but you have to get your maneuvers right to stay at 2-3, game one I didn't and it got ugly for me, game 2 I kept him wayyyy back and wrecked house.

Nice!

Re: Engine Upgrade - would adding R2-D6 + Expert Handling be another good way to keep reaction to Whisper up, or is VI going to be more important?

Horton Salm absolutely kills in this meta and will get better when he pairs with dash.

I'm 2-0 in the TC open with a loaded to the gills horton (2x proton, ion, engine) abs super dash.

Engine and ion canon are key to using him late. Also with Horton do your best avoid the joust just to get a tl. Often a boost out of arc + Ion shot will keep him alive longer.

Horton's enemy is the swarm. But we don't see those much anymore.