A single TIE Fighter vs a lonely Z-95 Headhunter. No upgrades or pilot abilities allowed. Who will win? And how? What strategies would you use if you were either ship? I'm assuming a regular array of asteroids, but nothing else. I feel a play test coming on. Please do try this yourselves and post the results.

Please also debate specific pilots if you think that this makes a significant difference over player skill, etc.

DoctorMike

The tie could evade token out of pretty much half the damage it could take. Tie wins.

The tie could evade token out of pretty much half the damage it could take. Tie wins.

kinda agree it also can fly circles around the z95.

You're at a disadvantage with the z-95. If I was stuck flying the z-95 I'd try to use some of the advantages I did have over it:

1: you have target lock. Because you're moving after the tie (Academy is PS1, Bandit is PS2) you can TL if you know you don't have to defend against a shot. It's gonna be tough but getting a TL and Focus together but it might help you overcome the 3 green dice.

2: you can bank and straight at 1. While you're slower the tie can only turn at 1 while you can bank or straight at 1.

3: Green dice will fail eventually: While the tie does have 3 evade dice, eventually they'll fail the tie. The longer the fight, the more likely you'll get a nasty crit to go through (and hopefully it's something you can capitalize on). You have shields so the z-95 will be a little more forgiving.

Normally I'd bet on a tie but I wouldn't count out the z-95 if it's flown by a good player.

Tie fighter can also barrel roll, so another advantage for it.

two problems with this.

firstly on 'one on one' with weak ships a single decent hit can decide it, you're very much at the whim of the dice.

This averages out over 100 points but small clashes a single roll can be decisive. Like if i get two hits on that tie and one or both are criticals its screwed.

I tend to find though in these sort of clashes they go on forever.... not very interesting as its lots and lots of positioning as both of you are scared to commit or get close.

Tie fighter can also barrel roll, so another advantage for it.

It is an advantage, but if it is academy vs. bandit you can't use it to arc dodge and without an evade token the z-95 might be able to get a good hit in.

As mentioned earlier, the Tie can evade every turn it's in arc and avoid 50% of possible damage. The Z has a slight movement edge from its dial having 1's, but the Tie has barrel roll. The Z has one more HP and 2 of it's HP's are crit proof.

The Tie has 3 green die vs the Z's 2.

PS2 vs PS1 gives a slight advantage to the Tie actually as the Z has no way to modify its dial and the Tie can play for a bump if needed.

In equally matched players, the Tie should win this probably 80% of the time.

I did this with a friend as part of teaching him VASSAL. We got bored very quickly.

Thing is two criticals on a Z95 if you were unlucky is just two hits

Same hits on a TIE and you're potentially one shotted.. unlikely i know but even one crit and one hit could kill you if you drew direct hit.

Thats what i mean about the dice being so much more important in a one on one.

In the games design the TIE is supposed to be expendable to a degree, its cheap and if you lose one who cares, the Z95 potentially soaks up much more damage than that one extra hit makes it seem like it has.

As mentioned earlier, the Tie can evade every turn it's in arc and avoid 50% of possible damage. The Z has a slight movement edge from its dial having 1's, but the Tie has barrel roll. The Z has one more HP and 2 of it's HP's are crit proof.

The Tie has 3 green die vs the Z's 2.

PS2 vs PS1 gives a slight advantage to the Tie actually as the Z has no way to modify its dial and the Tie can play for a bump if needed.

In equally matched players, the Tie should win this probably 80% of the time.

The belief that the Tie will win is misplaced. People point to the 3 green dice and b-roll.

What you are failing to see is that b-roll on a lower PS is somewhat useless. First, you have to be in range 1 for b-roll to be effective. Next, having to move first, you really don't have any idea if you are really dodging the arc or not.

The 3 defense dice is fool's gold. The chance of rolling enough [evade] is just slightly better ( <10% ) then if you had 2 defense dice.

What the Ties have is the evade action, but people seldom use it.

On the other hand,

Having a TL available while at range 1 is pure gold.

The Z95 is simply the better jouster due to the higher PS & shields of the Z95. Being able to shoot first, thus stripping the Tie's focus token, makes the Tie's return fire so much weaker.

I personally have tried this battle. The Z95 wins 2 out of 3.

but what tie player will joust? The tie can circle tighter and ignore half the damage a headhunter can give. In all honesty if it ever came down to this though its who's dice works better. You still need to roll hits / evades for both sides and neither have any particular boosts in doing it.

Only a drooling moron will go head to head against the z-95, you use the asteroids for cover circle in from one side and pick your moment to dive in.

I play 2 z vs two tie all the time for our group as like a fundamentals training.

Having two is a little more fun. Besides one on one is kind of a joust fest in a way.

From our very low sample size of say it's about even.

My vote would go to the Tie. It just has way more movement options available. It moves first, but with the more limited dial, its easier to predict where the Z will end up. The Barrel roll makes it trickier for the Z pilot to predict the final location of the Tie.

You can always just evade every turn to. I think the attrition will go to the Tie in that way.

I like experiments! I was hoping for data, not just a proposal, though. It's a classic match-up though, and it's interesting to think about what ship would have the upper hand here.

Even so, I'll point out that the OP framed this as an experiment to be conducted by the community, but as of now it is just a debate over a very specific and uncommon encounter: AP vs. Bandit, in absence of all other ships.

Even if we really did this experiment, I'm not sure what it would prove. AP vs Bandit must happen with some frequency in X-wing, but neither ship ever exists in a vacuum, and my understanding is that duels play out very differently from squad engagements. So this is an interesting idea, but maybe not very relevant for the game we play.

I like experiments! I was hoping for data, not just a proposal, though.

Fair enough. I'll do some experiments if others do too.

The TIE has the evade and agility advantage. Unless the Z gets a lucky crit the TIE has the home advantage...

BUT: Neither of these are designed for one on one dueling without supporting factors (Z-95 is a cheap missile platform, both are cheap filler). The TIE is made for swarming, the Z... more of a missilebawks. So how about this? a 16 point TIE vs a Z with cluster missiles or a 15 point tie vs a Z with proton rockets? Suddenly it doesn't look that reasonable for the TIE pilot.

If given the choice in a matchup, I'd choose the tie every time. Half of the game is positioning, It's a dogfighting game after all. The superior dial of the tie cannot be overstated. Also evade cancels 1 hit every round. If you take evade every time, the max hits that could be landed is 1, and it will often be none. I agree with the above. No tie pilot worth his salt is going to joust, and with that mobility, you don't have to. the biggest thing the Z has going for it is pilot skill. think of that evade token like 1 shiled that regens every round, until that round you have him, then you switch to focus and in your best vader voice say. "I have you now!"

The TIE has the evade and agility advantage.

So how about this? a 16 point TIE vs a Z with cluster missiles or a 15 point tie vs a Z with proton rockets? Suddenly it doesn't look that reasonable for the TIE pilot.

Sounds fun!

Think of that evade token like 1 shiled that regens every round, until that round you have him, then you switch to focus and in your best vader voice say. "I have you now!"

The OP was inspired by a scenario I came across at DragonDaze, a local for charity one day game convention in Newport, where I work a day a week. In that "Academy TIE combat simulator" you had a single basic TIE, simple rules (no focus or evade) and several goals (fly through three gates, the last only slightly wider than a ship base; destroy two satellite turrets; stop on a cargo item (the size of a 50p coin) and defeat a Z. Hence the question. I got 15/20pts by not fighting the Headhunter, playing it safe, but wondered about the odds. If I'd taken damage, I'd have lost points equal to hull lost, but gained by damaging the Z; 4 pts for the hull, plus 1 for destroying it. In the end, the winner got 18/20 having lost some for trading shots with the rebel ship. Overall, I thought it was a great scenario, but was wondering whether I should have jousted, or tried to pick it off, and what others would have done. Of course, by maxing out without fighting the Z, I forced those who wanted to beat me to engage the enemy, which I'd hoped would put them more at risk. For quite a few it worked, but it was something if a gamble.

Interesting scenario. Be good for teaching people the game basics in a different way

The evade action gives the win to the tie.

The 95needs to get to range one to get early damage in or its usually over a few turns later.

What you are failing to see is that b-roll on a lower PS is somewhat useless. First, you have to be in range 1 for b-roll to be effective. Next, having to move first, you really don't have any idea if you are really dodging the arc or not.

The 3 defense dice is fool's gold. The chance of rolling enough [evade] is just slightly better ( <10% ) then if you had 2 defense dice.

What the Ties have is the evade action, but people seldom use it.

"What you are failing to see is that b-roll on a lower PS is somewhat useless. First, you have to be in range 1 for b-roll to be effective. Next, having to move first, you really don't have any idea if you are really dodging the arc or not."

You don't have to be at Range 1 to barrel roll. You're correct in that its arc-dodging utility is somewhat negated by the information disadvantage of PS1, but barrel roll has utility beyond that. It expands the places the TIE can go significantly, making it harder for the Z-95 to guess where it'll end up. The Z-95 is just as blind as the TIE fighter when it comes to maneuvering as it can move on dial only.

"The 3 defense dice is fool's gold. The chance of rolling enough [evade] is just slightly better ( <10% ) then if you had 2 defense dice."

How many "enough evade" is depends on how many attack dice were rolled, and if the TIE fighter has an evade token.

(Note: While rounded numbers are displayed for ease of viewing, calculations were done with the full numbers)

Needs one evade result (partial hit):

2 dice (Z-95): 0.609 (~61%)

3 dice (TIE): 0.756 (~76%)

2 dice + F (Z-95): 0.859 (~86%)

3 dice + F (TIE): 0.947 (~95%)

3 dice + E (TIE): 1 (100%)

Needs two evade results (full hit):

2 dice (Z-95): 0.141 (~14%)

3 dice (TIE): 0.316 (~32%)

2 dice + F (Z-95): 0.391 (~40%)

3 dice + F (TIE): 0.684 (~69%)

3 dice + E (TIE): 0.756 (~76%)

Needs three evade results (Range 1 full hit):

2 dice (Z-95): 0 (0%)

3 dice (TIE): 0.053 (~5%)

2 dice + F (Z-95): 0 (0%)

3 dice + F (TIE): 0.244 (~24%)

3 dice + E (TIE): 0.316 (~32%)

To me, this says the Z-95 is in for a very hard time indeed if the TIE turtles down. If it's using its actions to boost its attack it's vunerable, and unless it gets to Range 1 that TIE has a roughly 75% chance of dodging the attack entirely. The Z-95 might have a better "jousting value" from MajorJuggler, but that's taking into account every matchup in the game and assuming that maneuvering doesn't happen (as quantifying maneuvering is next to impossible, quantifying dice probabilities is relatively easy).

The maths behind it is here if you want to check it:

"What the Ties have is the evade action, but people seldom use it."

So you're saying the Z-95 wins because the TIE player is playing badly? That's not exactly a fair test. Who was playing the TIEs in your tests?

In a one on one fight it's going to be very luck based. The higher pilot skill of the Z-95 means it shoots first and the TIE can't use its barrel roll to arc dodge, beyond that both are setting their maneuvers blind. The TIE has a better dial and that barrel roll so in the hands of a seriously expert player it might have a arc dodging advantage there but in the hands of an average player advantage negated.

I wouldn't want to call it on a match by match basis, but the TIE fighter's ability to evade gives it a hefty advantage in a one on one fight with a two dice.

You don't necessarily need higher PS to arc dodge. If I'm playing the TIE and I'm going up against a Z-95, there are literally places on the board that it CANNOT go due to its dial and lack of repositioning action (boost or barrel roll). Those are the places I will put myself, fully confident that my opponent will not be shooting at me.

The best way IMHO to get good at the arc dodgers (phantoms and 'ceptors and such) is to play the low PS versions and work on getting to know your opponent's dial and also learning how to predict instead of react. That way, if you go up against Wedge or other PS 9+ pilots you can still take them down.