So, we played the new expantion for the first time last night and I ended up with Finn for my character. As we played...we were unsure exactly how to use his "never has to discard an item" ability. there were multiple interpritations as to what that ment, and I want to know which, if any of them, are the right one.

The first interpritation was that he just never has to discard any items, flat out. What this lead to was using dynamite and holy water as primary weapons (they say discard after use, but he never discards, so they stayed around) and eventualy lead to abusing just about anything that involved a discard, from the whisky he starts with to the King in Yellow unique item (actualy using them both together). This is the interpritation we ended up actualy using, because it was out knee jerk reaction to start with, but by the end, we were thinking that was really, really strong.

The second interpritation was that, basicaly, every item he carries gets the lines added to, for example, the deputy's pistor or the derringer. Something to the effect of "this item can't be lost or stolen unless this player allows it". This would mean that items that have a discard after use still get discarded, becuase the player is choosing to do it.

The last one was basicaly like the second one, but more that if they use something that involves discarding it, then don't discard it, the effect is nullified...very similer to the second interpritation, but with just sort of semantical diferences.

So, my question is, how is it actualy sapposed to work? This was the biggest question we had so far about the new characters...granted we haven't played, and tried to break, all of them yet.

uh...um... I would go with not having to discard as a consequence, being knocked out, rat thing, enoucter where you loss something but not to pay as a cost or the item its self, KiY, Holy Water, Rumor's, etc

Wow... that's a really good question.

There are *lots* of items that are discard after use. Dhol Chants (draw the ally deck), Crowbars (Draw the Common Item Deck), Spellbooks (Draw the Spell deck), Lucky Cigarette Cases, Old Journals, King In Yellows, Holy Waters, Dynamites, Foods, Whiskeys, Obsidian Statue (cancel all stamina/san damage from a source)... Caballah of Saboth lets you draw the Skill deck, Safety deposit key lets him draw the Unique deck. So, aside from the limiting factor of movement points to do stuff with, he can draw all the items/skills/spells/allies in the game, if you use all the expansions. How about the Warding Statue? If you can cancel the AO's attack every round, automatic win in all final combats. Or what about items like the Healing Stone, which is discard if the AO awakens?

Easy to say no to all of that maybe, how about against Ithaqua's Start of Battle ability?

Is there any reason we can think of that is logical that nerfs the above paragraph and makes sense of him not discarding items when he fails his bank loan?

I think this needs some major clarification.

cost are still paid, if discarding is optional and you choose it, discard it. if it is forced you dont have to.

Ha ha ha... I'm going to guess he still has to discard stuff like food.

Otherwise, it is clearly broken. I mean, food, a 1$ item, makes you invincible.

You take seven stamina of damage. I discard a food. Oh no, I'm taking six. But I still have a food! I discard it! Five! Four! Three! Two! One! Yay! I'm good!

Whiskey + Food = Invincible.

I would play discard stuff like awp says must be discarded, but wouldn't hurt with Ithaqua. I'm going to say this is the difference between Harvey and Daisy. This guy has a more Harvey-esque ability, but must still pay costs.

give me some whiskey and food and i am invinicible too.

pittplayer said:

I think this is a perfect way to put it. It is an extension of the fundamental differences between costs and losses. Holy Water, Dynamite, Food, Whiskey, and read tomes are discarded as a cost of their use. Going unconscious or defaulting on a Bank loan imposes a penalty of losing items, and he is immune.

This suggests interesting exploits in the area of some corruption cards, and of Ithaqua's start of battle ability.

Tibs said:

But what about the Bank Loan ITSELF? If Finn defaults on his Loan, does he lose IT?

For that matter, WHEN does Finn actually default on his Loan? Because he never has to pay money for it. Is it when he has NO money to not spend on it?

jgt7771 said:

His ability only talks about Items and money, BL is neither.

jgt7771 said:

Good question. If he defaults, he can never take out another bank loan. If he never has to default, there's a chance that the loan could be forgiven through a game effect, allowing him to take out a second loan.

Hmm, looking at the BL card text "Pay $1, or" and Finn's investigator sheet, doesn't look like he is immune to paying of the BL.

agreed on all counts. good interpretations Tibs/Dam.

awp832 said:

We're Zhar .

Maybe not everyone has seen Kevin's response:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=5&efcid=1&efidt=135806&efpag=0#135830

Tibs said:

Well, there are satill the items that are "place a tokenon this when you do X. when it has 3 tokens, discard it" thatins't an optional cost, and, in essence, makes the item infinite uses, for anyone, after that point, because the next time you use it, it get's 4 tokens, and it only discards when it has 3 tokens...so anyone can use it forevermore after that...at least that's one of the funkyalities i also came up with with him.

Discarding Enchanted Jewelry and Golden Trumpet and other "limited-use" as a result of using their effects is still the cost of the card. Enchanted Jewelry is like a three-time use Food card, in a sense. Finn can't just use it to cancel an infinite amount of stamina. That's absurd.

heres a finn question

Move like a moon monster? huh?

move one space? move black or white lines? move all your movement?

pittplayer said:

Move in the same way that a moon monster would.

yes but moon monsters have different kinds of movement fast flying stalker, do you see what i am asking? do u move when a moon monster moves with all your speed points?

It says he moves like a "normal" monster. This would mean that he can move like a regular, black-bordered monster, if he so chose, when the moon symbol is drawn.

Tactical question, then. Can he escape a cultist or similar? Would the cultist move with him, or would it spend the turn looking for Finn in his original square? I would assume move with him, unless another investigator was in Finn's starting square.

one space? that is kind of lame i thought he would get full movement points!! oh well

flamethrower49 said:

You should post this in the F.A.Q. I suspect that's one of the points of his movement, it's a way of escaping monsters that landed on him, but I'm not sure.

Tibs said:

Agreed. This whole idea that he can prevent discard *costs* for item usage is ludicrous. It leads to ideas such as infinite use of food and whisky (i.e. a near indestructable character if you have Kingsport— you can just go and buy him those items through a location search). I'm not saying that the text isn't unclear in what it says, but clearly it doesn't mean that he can be used in a way that allows you to completely alter the way limited use items work in an extremely game breaking manner.

Avi_dreader said:

Finn, Charlie. Charlie, Finn. You two have so much in common...

jgt7771 said:

Actually, I don't think I've ever used (any form of) Charlie's ally ability. I've not used his terror track ability much either. But I do enjoy working on his personal story. All you need is some cash and to be at the Newspaper during upkeep. Just seeing him get kicked out in a number of different ways during the Encounter phase is a riot. Last time I tried to get him there, he was not kicked out. But the Mythos card was "Traveller Lost in the Fog" and he was whisked away to the Strange High House!!!! The cherry on top: his random ally at the start of the game was William Bain (this also meant no doom token removal, pah). Talk about irony.

"All right, Bill. I'm finally here at the Newspaper, and maybe someone will be able to place my ad."

"..."

"Bill?"

"Look how foggy it just got outside. Come on, Chuck! Let's go out and play monsters!"

"..."

"..."

"I don't see how this could be a bad idea!"

And when they were done playing, Bill brought Chuck to his house for hot cocoa.