Title says it all really, I just can't fly them right!

Does anyone else have this problem; as in do you have one ship that you think is awesome and can see it's potential but as soon as you fly it it's absolute pony?

Over the last 6 games I've played I've used both Corran and Etahn and they always seem to be out on their own somewhere not really doing anything, they just don't get stuck in. I know this is my fault and I'm being too safe with them, I just can't seem to get them right. Grrrr!!!

I think I'm gonna give up on them for a bit and replace it with an X-Wing to go alongside my Z mini swarm.

Anyway rant over

I think I've flown my E-Wing once since I got it. Just doesn't appeal to me. Pretty much just picked it up for the Astromechs.

If you fly them too defensively it can really feel that way. I think Etahn is alright and Corran loaded up is one of the toughest ships in the game. It's true that he isn't maneuverable enough to always land an arc, but that's why you double-tap when you see it coming.

Try some Han/Corran.

I have trouble using 'em, 'cause they're so @#$^ing ugly...

Nice upgrades, though.

They are flown as flankers to your main force or as your list's ace with a backup force.

Using them as jousters will net you poor results.

I'm loving my Es. Put a Sensor Jammer on them and call it a day.

They can fly almost on par with A-Wings if you give them the Engine Upgrade, but that is not usually an effective means of using them. They're for either flanking, especially with E'Tahn using his ability to buff his allies, or you can think of them as a more customizable X-Wing. Even with cheap upgrades they can really be a force to be reckoned with.

Too often I've seen them get stressed then wander off for a few turns while they try to get back into arc and usually I've killed their support while ignoring them and by the time they can fire again it's all alone.

@OP

Stop playing defensively in an offensively weighted game and your view may change.

Have you considered the possibility that it may not be the ship, but the choices you're making in game?

Have you considered the possibility that it may not be the ship, but the choices you're making in game?

No it's the ship, the generics are too expensive and don't work without PTL, corran is highly situational and does not play well with others, eatin aboat only works with large numbers of ships which you can't fit into 100 points and four z-95s just arnt that scary even with the buff he provides.

Have you considered the possibility that it may not be the ship, but the choices you're making in game?

No it's the ship, the generics are too expensive and don't work without PTL, corran is highly situational and does not play well with others, eatin aboat only works with large numbers of ships which you can't fit into 100 points and four z-95s just arnt that scary even with the buff he provides.

I think you're missing my point. At an elite play level, your comment may be true. For the average player, the true problem can be scapegoating of mechanics. The purpose of my comment was not to elucidate truth, but to get the TC to consider all alternatives.

There are people in my area who consistently place in Top 20 at Worlds that would disagree with your assessment of E-wings.

Too often I've seen them get stressed then wander off for a few turns while they try to get back into arc and usually I've killed their support while ignoring them and by the time they can fire again it's all alone.

You need better opponents then. Han/Corran is top end competitive.

Corran is blah, too much for too little, giving up next turns shot sets you up. EThan is very good, over priced by himself, but add advanced sensors and he turns on a dime. His ability really makes his pals better. Have flown him with Ten Numb and Wes with a variety of upgrades and did fairly well at 100, we had a 130 point game and I added Cracken and several upgrades and finished second in 14 players . E-Wings are probably overpriced without upgrades, but using Advanced sensors almost makes them under priced.

Have you considered the possibility that it may not be the ship, but the choices you're making in game?

No it's the ship, the generics are too expensive and don't work without PTL, corran is highly situational and does not play well with others, eatin aboat only works with large numbers of ships which you can't fit into 100 points and four z-95s just arnt that scary even with the buff he provides.

I think you're missing my point. At an elite play level, your comment may be true. For the average player, the true problem can be scapegoating of mechanics. The purpose of my comment was not to elucidate truth, but to get the TC to consider all alternatives.

There are people in my area who consistently place in Top 20 at Worlds that would disagree with your assessment of E-wings.

Too often I've seen them get stressed then wander off for a few turns while they try to get back into arc and usually I've killed their support while ignoring them and by the time they can fire again it's all alone.

You need better opponents then. Han/Corran is top end competitive.

I only play casually so I'm not talking about tournaments just friendly games and my personal experience flying against the e-wing.

And insulting my friends isn't countering my observations it's just being mean for the sake of it, and that's beneath you rainbow your better than that.

The fact is if stressed the e-wing has straight greens and banks so you can't just k turn to get into the fight so you either soft bank and k turn or pull two white hard turns either way it's two turns to get back into the fight if you use ptl and the other guy flies past you, I'm fully aware of that weakness and exploit it without mercy.

Ptl Double-tap, green, k-turn, attack. No missed shots. And a double-tap is better than 2 shots in separate rounds. I'm not disagreeing about E's generally. But Corran is a whole different animal.

Most ships only have straight and banked greens, but if that's you problem with the e-wing you can either stop using PTL or start using the R2 artromech.

I find they seem to struggle a bit on the offensive and defensive fronts. They can do one but not both. I used Corran (but any E will do) in conjunction with Kyle and was able to get TL from FCS. By being able to focus/evade and still get TL's for offense he was a lot harder to kill,while still maintaining good damage. Without adding in the evade they just don't last very long.

PtL on the named E's helps with defence (and maneuvering), but is best paired with PtL to help with clearing stress on the same turn to give you the best advantages from the dial next turn.

I want to like the generic E-wings and their vast selection of upgrades, but they always seem to underperform for me due to the lack of action economy. They are a lot like interceptors in that with lots of actions they are great, but without they struggle mightily.

Fly it like an X-wing.

Granted I have only played a couple of games with an e-wing but they just seem too fragile for the cost. Both times were three elite ship lists maybe worth trying it in a 5+ ship list Etahn w/ a bunch of Zs

I think Hobojebus has a certain bias against E-Wings that goes off of his personal experience rather than actual game facts, such as their outstanding dials, actions and upgrades. I honestly think he's just a great player (or he's surrounded by mediocre players using E-Wings), and regardless of the ship, his skill outmatches his opponents. I'm in no way being facetious either.

I have to ask you, Hobojebus, have you flown the E-Wing as extensively as your other ships (I know you're a huge fan of the Defender)? I always read your disdainful comments towards it all over the board, but never any mention of personal experience flying it yourself and by quickly dismissing it as an inferior ship without applying your own skill level and gaining your own perspective on it by flying it for yourself your arguments become detrimental to the discussion of strategy and the growth of new ideas for list building.

As for the the topic itself, the E-Wing requires a higher level of skill and planning to benefit from its applications. It has many dial, upgrade and action options that need to be woven in great synergy with itself and the rest of your list in order to fly successfully. As an E-Wing player, you have to ask yourself these three questions:

1. Am I building around my E-Wing(s) and flying them as my primary force?

2. Is/are my E-Wing/s going to fill a support role, and if so, how will it support my primary force?

3. Will my E-Wing be worth the role it is going to fulfill?

An example of a list that answers "yes" to question 1 would be:

Corran Horn (35)

Push the Limits (3)

Advanced Sensors (3)

R2-D2 (4)

Shield Upgrade (4)

(49)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)

Advanced Sensors (3)

x2

(50)

Or

Tala Squadron Pilot (12)

x4

(48)

Or

Tarn Mison (23)

R7 Astromech (2)

(25)

^Biggs works here, too.

Bandit Squadron Pilot (13)

x2

(26)

You get the idea. It becomes a two-builds-in-one build. Corran becomes the highly maneuverable, highly survivable knife fighter while the rest of the force can mop up or engage another part of the enemy. The most important part about flying the E-Wing is knowing when to engage or disengage the enemy. Corran is virtually half your list, you can't be afraid to run when you need to and gun when you can. Never be hesitant to use the 5 straight when things get too muggy and never pass up a 3-K to gain an advantage.

As for question 2. Etahn Swarm and Han-Corran builds come to mind. The Etahn's role is quite obvious, turn your Z-Swarm's hits into crits. The fault in Rebel Swarms, though, is that people expect it to work like a TIE Swarm and it isn't exactly surprising to think that way because of the perceived similarities the two builds have:

-Both have a unique pilot that modifies the Swarm.

-Both apply pressure by threat of volume of attacks rather than firepower.

-Both will fly in a formation, which has proven effective against many builds.

However, turning crits to hits don't equal the re-roll that Howlrunner offers. Although they apply the same amount of pressure, Z's are nowhere near as versatile, maneuverable or agile as TIEs. And on the note of maneuverability, TIEs have more formation flying options than Z's. This is why E-Z-Swarm doesn't have the equivalence of a TIE swarm. Also, you'll be playing against rebels as well, making Etahn's ability that much less effective.

But this doesn't mean we should automatically dismiss Etahn off as an unplayable pilot. Where Rebels lack in volume they make up for in firepower and resiliency. A list utilizing Biggs, Etahn and Cracken can be deadly:

Biggs Darklighter (25)

Etahn A'baht (32)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)

Airen Cracken (19)

Swarm Tactics (2)

Here, you have the bullet magnet that is Biggs, Airen passing out a higher PS and free actions and Etahn modifying the formation's attacks, plus the B-Wing to add more jousting power. A much more solid formation and it doesn't rely on Etahn to remain solid, thus, making your E-Wing the support ship that it is.

Another example, the Super Falcon-Corran build, shows the E-Wing as a support ship for the Falcon:

Han Solo (46)

Veteran Instincts (1)

C-3PO (3)

Gunner (5)

MF Title (1)

Engine Upgrade (4)

(60)

Corran Horn (35)

Veteran Instincts (1)

FCS (2)

R7 Astromech (2)

(40)

Total: 100

The Super Falcon is the gunboat, the main event, the big red X in the sand that says "dig here" since its going to be chewing up every enemy ship on the board. This is where Corran comes in with his double-tap effect to play clean up and fly as a flanker that can toast an enemy in a single turn. Double-tapping + FCS makes him extremely deadly, while R7 + FCS makes him that much more survivable on the shot back. There are many times where neglecting Corran will spell doom for your opponents.

As for the final question, you really need to ask yourself: "Is it worth it?" It is undeniable that a viable E-Wing is very expensive. You can run decked out Wedge, Biggs, B-Wings, multiple Refit A's, multiple Z's and even an ORS for the same general cost of a single named E-Wing, but it comes down to personal preference. Do you prefer the versatility of a single ship or the tackiness of multiple ships? Do you prefer a fencing style of dogfighting or destroying your opponent by a million cuts? Do want it to be your ace or your support ship?

Whichever you choose, you need to keep in mind that the E-Wing is unlike any other Rebel ship and will feel unfamiliar to fly until you've spent some time to think critically on its applications and effectiveness. What I've realized is that the E-Wing is a fantastic ship in theory, but in order to successfully fulfill those theories you have to really know the ship and be aware of your choices on the board, as it has a much smaller margin of error than say a Falcon, X-Wing or B-Wing.

TL;DR - Don't give up on E-Wings yet! + Read the second to the last and the last paragraph!

I really enjoy flying an E-wing (and Defender) with Lone Wolf. I play a lot on vassal but it makes them a lot better.

In my experience. The strength in the E-Wing is its upgrade bar. A bare E-Wing will very rarely net you results. However you need to find the right balance. Have too many points and you paint a target on your back. Plus you need to learn how to fly them effectively.

I ran a squad a few weeks back. Tarn Mison (R7 Astromech), Etan A'baht (Sensor Jammer, R2-D2, Engine Upgrade) and two Tala Squadron Pilots. I think that was it.

The Talas went down very quickly and Tarn followed although I did manage to take out Wes Janson. It came down to Etan VS. Two Green Squadron Pilots (both with Opportunist) and Biggs.

I considered calling the match there and then, but I pushed on, and surprisingly made the awesome comeback and ended up winning the match to the surprise of my opponent and myself. The Sensor Jammer kept nullifying hits thrown my way. The three evade dice did the rest and any hits I did take I healed with R2. I think the most I lost was 2 shields (bringing me down to 1) which I managed to manipulate the game so that by the time the other ships could shoot at me, I was back up to 3 shields.

I think Hobojebus has a certain bias against E-Wings that goes off of his personal experience rather than actual game facts, such as their outstanding dials, actions and upgrades. I honestly think he's just a great player (or he's surrounded by mediocre players using E-Wings), and regardless of the ship, his skill outmatches his opponents. I'm in no way being facetious either.

I have to ask you, Hobojebus, have you flown the E-Wing as extensively as your other ships (I know you're a huge fan of the Defender)? I always read your disdainful comments towards it all over the board, but never any mention of personal experience flying it yourself and by quickly dismissing it as an inferior ship without applying your own skill level and gaining your own perspective on it by flying it for yourself your arguments become detrimental to the discussion of strategy and the growth of new ideas for list building.

As for the the topic itself, the E-Wing requires a higher level of skill and planning to benefit from its applications. It has many dial, upgrade and action options that need to be woven in great synergy with itself and the rest of your list in order to fly successfully. As an E-Wing player, you have to ask yourself these three questions:

1. Am I building around my E-Wing(s) and flying them as my primary force?

2. Is/are my E-Wing/s going to fill a support role, and if so, how will it support my primary force?

3. Will my E-Wing be worth the role it is going to fulfill?

An example of a list that answers "yes" to question 1 would be:

Corran Horn (35)

Push the Limits (3)

Advanced Sensors (3)

R2-D2 (4)

Shield Upgrade (4)

(49)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)

Advanced Sensors (3)

x2

(50)

Or

Tala Squadron Pilot (12)

x4

(48)

Or

Tarn Mison (23)

R7 Astromech (2)

(25)

^Biggs works here, too.

Bandit Squadron Pilot (13)

x2

(26)

You get the idea. It becomes a two-builds-in-one build. Corran becomes the highly maneuverable, highly survivable knife fighter while the rest of the force can mop up or engage another part of the enemy. The most important part about flying the E-Wing is knowing when to engage or disengage the enemy. Corran is virtually half your list, you can't be afraid to run when you need to and gun when you can. Never be hesitant to use the 5 straight when things get too muggy and never pass up a 3-K to gain an advantage.

As for question 2. Etahn Swarm and Han-Corran builds come to mind. The Etahn's role is quite obvious, turn your Z-Swarm's hits into crits. The fault in Rebel Swarms, though, is that people expect it to work like a TIE Swarm and it isn't exactly surprising to think that way because of the perceived similarities the two builds have:

-Both have a unique pilot that modifies the Swarm.

-Both apply pressure by threat of volume of attacks rather than firepower.

-Both will fly in a formation, which has proven effective against many builds.

However, turning crits to hits don't equal the re-roll that Howlrunner offers. Although they apply the same amount of pressure, Z's are nowhere near as versatile, maneuverable or agile as TIEs. And on the note of maneuverability, TIEs have more formation flying options than Z's. This is why E-Z-Swarm doesn't have the equivalence of a TIE swarm. Also, you'll be playing against rebels as well, making Etahn's ability that much less effective.

But this doesn't mean we should automatically dismiss Etahn off as an unplayable pilot. Where Rebels lack in volume they make up for in firepower and resiliency. A list utilizing Biggs, Etahn and Cracken can be deadly:

Biggs Darklighter (25)

Etahn A'baht (32)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)

Airen Cracken (19)

Swarm Tactics (2)

Here, you have the bullet magnet that is Biggs, Airen passing out a higher PS and free actions and Etahn modifying the formation's attacks, plus the B-Wing to add more jousting power. A much more solid formation and it doesn't rely on Etahn to remain solid, thus, making your E-Wing the support ship that it is.

Another example, the Super Falcon-Corran build, shows the E-Wing as a support ship for the Falcon:

Han Solo (46)

Veteran Instincts (1)

C-3PO (3)

Gunner (5)

MF Title (1)

Engine Upgrade (4)

(60)

Corran Horn (35)

Veteran Instincts (1)

FCS (2)

R7 Astromech (2)

(40)

Total: 100

The Super Falcon is the gunboat, the main event, the big red X in the sand that says "dig here" since its going to be chewing up every enemy ship on the board. This is where Corran comes in with his double-tap effect to play clean up and fly as a flanker that can toast an enemy in a single turn. Double-tapping + FCS makes him extremely deadly, while R7 + FCS makes him that much more survivable on the shot back. There are many times where neglecting Corran will spell doom for your opponents.

As for the final question, you really need to ask yourself: "Is it worth it?" It is undeniable that a viable E-Wing is very expensive. You can run decked out Wedge, Biggs, B-Wings, multiple Refit A's, multiple Z's and even an ORS for the same general cost of a single named E-Wing, but it comes down to personal preference. Do you prefer the versatility of a single ship or the tackiness of multiple ships? Do you prefer a fencing style of dogfighting or destroying your opponent by a million cuts? Do want it to be your ace or your support ship?

Whichever you choose, you need to keep in mind that the E-Wing is unlike any other Rebel ship and will feel unfamiliar to fly until you've spent some time to think critically on its applications and effectiveness. What I've realized is that the E-Wing is a fantastic ship in theory, but in order to successfully fulfill those theories you have to really know the ship and be aware of your choices on the board, as it has a much smaller margin of error than say a Falcon, X-Wing or B-Wing.

TL;DR - Don't give up on E-Wings yet! + Read the second to the last and the last paragraph!

What a fantastic response! Thanks Spike and everyone else for your comments so far appreciate it.

You're bringing me round to giving them a second chance, maybe what I need to do is work out what I want from them and then put it down on a crib sheet of sorts so I can refer to it and not forget things. I think Corran is the choice for me as in my head I want to be aggressive with them, for me they should be at the forefront.

I've enjoyed a lot of success with Corran, who may be my favourite pilot in the game right now. I fly him in a formation with Biggs and Wedge. The thing to remember with Corran is that you basically alternate turns between killing something and doing everything in your power to stay out of arcs. In my last two games Corran was my last ship and he effortlessly flattened Vader in one and a pair of bombers in the other. I've been using Marksmanship and FCS for as much burst damage as possible but I look forward to trying some more defensive builds.

Etahn is usable as a support ship for one or two ace pilots like Wedge or Corran, but he seems like he'll really shine when I play him in an epic game and surround him with X-Wings. In a 100 point game I'm not completely sold on his ability really being that good, but there are a few lists where he might be fun.

The generic E-Wings are pretty useless though. No argument there.