iv been scratching my brain and cant figure out how the timing when forethought or blood runs true and my opponent has a hero king and hoping for a challenge in hand??

can any1 pls help me figure it out as the only way i see it is wrong.

my opponent tried to attack me, i used forethought and he used hero king which states : r commit: after your opponent modifies your control check, reveal the top card of your deck. your check gets + x. x equals the control check.

then my opponent plays hoping for a challenge which does r: after your opponent modifies your control check, draw x cards. x equals the amount the control check was modified by. failing that control check does not end your combat phase. discard this card from your card pool.

so the way i see it forethought is still being applied to the initial attack but the control check for + x is being applied to hoping for a challenge.

here is a run down

opponent attacks, forethought played, hero king played revealing control check, hoping for a challenge is played with control check+ from hero king, draw x cards equal to forethought, then forethoughts - 2 is still applied to initial attack but it doesnt end the phase from card txt on hoping for a challenge being applied to hoping for a challenge but it does end the phase if opponent cannot make the control check against initial attack.

i hope this is correct but im really not sure tbh and need it clarifing from a rules arbitor.

thankx for the help guys.

ps i acidentilly put this thread on the uk forums as well to see if i could sort it out quickly as i know you guys are really busy.

iv been scratching my brain and cant figure out how the timing when forethought or blood runs true and my opponent has a hero king and hoping for a challenge in hand??

can any1 pls help me figure it out as the only way i see it is wrong.

my opponent tried to attack me, i used forethought and he used hero king which states : r commit: after your opponent modifies your control check, reveal the top card of your deck. your check gets + x. x equals the control check.

then my opponent plays hoping for a challenge which does r: after your opponent modifies your control check, draw x cards. x equals the amount the control check was modified by. failing that control check does not end your combat phase. discard this card from your card pool.

so the way i see it forethought is still being applied to the initial attack but the control check for + x is being applied to hoping for a challenge.

here is a run down

opponent attacks, forethought played, hero king played revealing control check,make control check against attack is made with +x and not ending the phase. hoping for a challenge is played, counter check made,draw x cards equal to forethought.

i hope this is correct but im really not sure tbh and need it clarifing from a rules arbitor.

thankx for the help guys.

ps i accidentily put this thread on the uk forums as well to see if i could sort it out quickly as i know you guys are really busy.

Alright, here's how I think it works:

Your opponent attempts to make a check, you respond "Before a check is made" with Forethought.

You both pass on your responses to "Before a check is made"

He makes his control check.

Forethought's floating effect (it waits until the check is made, then modifies it) activates, and gives his check -2.

He reacts with Hero King (which triggers "After your opponent modifies a control check") and reveals the top card of his deck, his check gets a bonus.

You pass on responses (because there's really nothing to respond with from your side)

He reacts with Hoping for a Challenge. He makes a control check to play the Action card from his hand. If that passes, then the effect resolves and he draws 2 cards (and failing the check, which was originally modified by Forethought, will not end the Combat Phase)

He's done reacting to his check being modified, so now he determines if he passed or failed the control check, and he can commit foundations if he still failed.

Wafflecopter said:

***STAMP***

While I'm okay with the ruling, I think the confusion here comes from Hoping for a Challenge's R:

"R: After your opponent modifies your control check, draw X cards. X equals the amount your control check was modified by. Failing that control check will not end your Combat Phase. Discard this card from your card pool."

It says, "X is the amount your control check was modified by." It doesn't say, "X is the amount by which the control check was modified by your opponent."

Let's say Hero King revealed a 5 for a +5 check bonus. By the time the player plays Hoping for a Challenge's R, the total amount it was modified by has changed from 2 (abs. value of the penalty, which was -2) to 7 (|-2| + |+5| from revealing a 5).

Of course, I'm totally happy with the ruling: Hoping for a Challenge is responding to your opponent making a modification, and it doesn't say "total amount your control check was modified by," so we can assume that its X only references the modification your opponent made.