I'm having a really hard time lately building lists. I just have some bugaboos I can't get over.

Those bugaboos are:

1. A pilot at PS 9 or greater (because Phantoms)

2. Lots of attack dice (because Falcons)

3. I just can't bear to field 2 attack dice ships unless they are filler (Bandits, Academies and the like)

4. No Torps or missiles.

5. No 3 ship lists. But for some reason I have no problem with 2 ship lists. I have no idea why.

Help me get over these hurdles. Perhaps it is fear of losing. Actually, that is exactly what it is. I dread the thought of having 4 ships run off the board by a Phantom for example. I don't play often (once a week in the best of times) and a big loss is very demoralizing. Even just fielding a squad that doesn't have a better answer for a Phantom than "spray and pray" gives me the willies. (This isn't an attack on Phantoms or the meta, just my personal bugaboos).

This has been giving me heaps of trouble fielding ships I want to play lately because I can't meet my criteria and I can't seem to violate my rules of thumb.

Farlander - sounds so great, but he eats up a ton of points and doesn't even land me a PS 9 ship. So I feel the need to add one and then the list feels too tight on points to get sufficient offense going.

Tricked out Tycho/Jake - seems like so much fun, but ****. 2 attack dice out of 25-30% of your list? That is hard to swallow. Heck, I even have a hard time with Zs like Cracken justifying 19 points for a ship with a 2 statline.

Ruthlessness - Man the imperials don't have good options for this. I want it to be hitting, but the imperial 3-dice options with EPTs are interceptors (no PtL? Crazy talk), Decimators (ok, but the deci really hasn't gotten me excited), and Defenders (Man I can't fly them and this really only works on Vessery IMO).

Opportunist - I keep feeling that this is a solid card but the pilot needs an EPT slot and ideally would fire late in the round. I've been thinking A-Wings, but it seems mighty tempting on Keyan as well.

Etahn Swarm - Pilot Skill so LOW.

So, how do you get out of a list building slump? Do you have your own "rules" and if so, how do you psyche yourself up to break them? How do you fit some of these things into a list? How do you make a spendy 2-attack ship work or is it even worth doing?

So, how do you get out of a list building slump? Do you have your own "rules" and if so, how do you psyche yourself up to break them? How do you fit some of these things into a list? How do you make a spendy 2-attack ship work or is it even worth doing?

Stop caring about winning.

So, how do you get out of a list building slump? Do you have your own "rules" and if so, how do you psyche yourself up to break them? How do you fit some of these things into a list? How do you make a spendy 2-attack ship work or is it even worth doing?

Stop caring about winning.

Baron's Focus

Fel + PTL + Hull

BH+ recon (or captive if expecting more phantoms)

NightBeast

Backstabber

Have beaten both. Not easy but it can be done.

Breaking your own rules feels better if you win.That in mind with you 5 rules break number 5. That will allow ease of not breaking your other rules and then you can tweak the list later to get back to 4+.

So first get you ace. Wedge, Corran or whoever you like.

Pick 2 wingmen that fit your style.

Try smokin' a big J before you make your list and before you play. Then you will probably lose, but at least you won't care so much.

So, how do you get out of a list building slump? Do you have your own "rules" and if so, how do you psyche yourself up to break them? How do you fit some of these things into a list? How do you make a spendy 2-attack ship work or is it even worth doing?

Stop caring about winning.

I've always said the cure for caring too much about winning is to play more. Then the losses don't seem so bad. But this isn't really about winning so much as not losing a certain way in many regards. There are just certain ways I don't want to lose because they are very much not fun experiences and I want the limited games I play to be fun. For example, having a single Phantom fly around out of your arcs for 30 minutes and lay waste to your squad - not fun. Flying an ship that just chases turn after turn doing little to no damage on 2 attack dice - not fun. It is about avoiding those types of situations more than it is about winning or losing I guess. It is strangely almost just about fear of having negative play experiences I will have to stew on.

I am 100% in agreement with you, and i am feeling the same frustration as you when building lists. Interestingly, i play only imperials whereas you seemed to be more focused on rebels, so this is not a faction specific issue.

While i don't like Wonderwaaagh's response, there is an element of truth to it: basically, you play for first place and your options are very limited. Or you just build a list you like and bite the bullet in case of bad matchup. This is a big problem for new players. Vets can take it and are already invested in the game, but there will be new players discouraged after a heavy loss they could do nothing about.

For your specific lists questions, i can only comment on the imperial side of thing: yes, 2 attack guns super suck against anything 3defense or higher and can make for some extremely frustrating matchups, that's why the top competitive lists are loaded with att4.

Ruthlessness: this card never struck me as particularily useful. The meta has shifted toward less ships on the board, with less synergies and more godmode-like loadouts (which leads to all the 2x 50pnt ship lists out there), meaning they are less likely to clump up. I agree with your assessment otherwise, although i think Vessery would be better off with Outmaneuvre for the points.

PS skill greater than 9. Roark can make anyone 12

Need cover put Biggs with him to protect Roark.

Now throw in a couple of B-wings. 4 ships that fit your criteria.

fill with upgrades after you got 4 pilots!

Sounds to me like you are overloading on upgrades if you don't want a 3 ship list but 2 ships are fine. The only time you would ever settle for 2 ships is if one of them is a super falcon + escort or double firespray. Work on filling pilots then use upgrades as fillers. If you have to combine upgrades work on upgrades that combine with pilot abilities.

I've been running:

31: Blue squadron w/ HLC, FCS

31: Blue squadron w/ HLC, FCS

25: Roark w/ ITC, Bien Nunb (easily removed for 99 pt list)

13: Tala

It follows all your rules and I've had good success with it. Maybe you'd like it too.

Wait, someone doesn't like my response?

I'm with ya man, I don't mind losing, bur I remember my first game against a phantom and first against a falcon and I had basically no answer. It wasn't fun, I also don't mind losing, but some one sided matchups exist due to single models. I will tell you ps7 with vi does offer you plenty of options but you need to include an initiative bid.

I may try a Roark list. I've been toying with them and just haven't been happy with one yet. There is a big difference between moving/firing at 12 and just firing at 12. But at least it takes some of the "pray" out of spray and pray.

Wait, someone doesn't like my response?

I may be missing something, but I don't have any issue with your response. It just doesn't happen to fit my problem exactly is all. The difference between winning and "not losing in a bad way" is arguably a fine distinction, but it is just how my mind is seeing things.

Fly this:

Prototype Pilot + Chardaan Refit (15) x2

Bandit Squadron Pilot + Assault Missiles (17)

Bandit Squadron Pilot + Homing Missiles (17)

Tala Squadron Pilot + Assault Missiles (18)

Tala Squadron Pilot + Homing Missiles (18)

It breaks pretty much all your rules (except ship count). Low PS, 2 Attack, lots of Missiles.

Fly it against Phantoms. Fly it against Falcons. And probably lose. Repeatedly. Try to win, but don't try too hard. Instead focus on doing as much damage as possible, and always more damage than last time. Figure out how to keep Phantoms in someone's sights and figure out how to block a Falcon. Learn how to fly it.

Then, after you've gone 0-5, at least, change one thing. Make it break one less rule. Swap out the Prototypes for Wedge + Determination or something. Now you've got a PS9. STOP! Don't change anything else. Fly it as above, against Phantoms and Falcons and lose. Who knows, maybe you win one. Maybe you're more comfortable flying, or maybe you find a use for one of the Missiles.

Either way, win or lose, practice flying the list over and over, making one change at a time. Build up toward a list that you know how to fly, can win with occasionally, and that fits most if not all of your rules. You may surprise yourself by finding something that you like sooner than you think, and that wins more often than you would have thought. Keep practicing with that.

Good flying beats most list building. Good luck.

I may be missing something, but I don't have any issue with your response. It just doesn't happen to fit my problem exactly is all. The difference between winning and "not losing in a bad way" is arguably a fine distinction, but it is just how my mind is seeing things.

That wasn't really directed at you.

You can control the lists that you play, but you can't control the lists that your opponents play. If building winning lists is proving to be a barrier to your own enjoyment of the game, perhaps a shift in priorities is in order. Or just fly three Firesprays.

I may be missing something, but I don't have any issue with your response. It just doesn't happen to fit my problem exactly is all. The difference between winning and "not losing in a bad way" is arguably a fine distinction, but it is just how my mind is seeing things.

That wasn't really directed at you.

You can control the lists that you play, but you can't control the lists that your opponents play. If building winning lists is proving to be a barrier to your own enjoyment of the game, perhaps a shift in priorities is in order. Or just fly three Firesprays.

See, i like that response better.

I may be missing something, but I don't have any issue with your response. It just doesn't happen to fit my problem exactly is all. The difference between winning and "not losing in a bad way" is arguably a fine distinction, but it is just how my mind is seeing things.

That wasn't really directed at you.

You can control the lists that you play, but you can't control the lists that your opponents play. If building winning lists is proving to be a barrier to your own enjoyment of the game, perhaps a shift in priorities is in order. Or just fly three Firesprays.

Ah, that clears up my confusion then

I don't struggle to build a winning list really. I am just struggling to get things into play that I feel like I should be able to work into an effective list and all the lists come out either looking like variations of the same or looking like non-starters. I feel Keyan should be able to go into an effective list, so should Etahn, etc. But for some reason I am just cooking the same recipe over and over without any new ingredients and it gets old, you know? List building is one of the things that really makes me love X-Wing and I'm just in a rut lately. Maybe it is just because I've found generally sticking to these guidelines works.

But yeah, I started X-Wing later than some and I've never flown 3 firesprays, so that may be one I try. It's an excuse to buy another Firespray if nothing else.

Farlander - sounds so great, but he eats up a ton of points and doesn't even land me a PS 9 ship. So I feel the need to add one and then the list feels too tight on points to get sufficient offense going.

Put VI on Farlander for PS 9.

Tricked out Tycho/Jake - seems like so much fun, but ****. 2 attack dice out of 25-30% of your list? That is hard to swallow.

Add proton rockets. That's a huge alpha strike with the mobility to deliver it, and 2-3 dice should be enough to clean up the leftovers while using their superior maneuverability to dodge arcs and ensure that even if it takes a while to finish off everything they're not going to be shooting back at you.

Heck, I even have a hard time with Zs like Cracken justifying 19 points for a ship with a 2 statline.

Cracken isn't just two attack dice at PS 8, he's also a free action for someone else. At only 19 points that's an incredibly good deal.

Etahn Swarm - Pilot Skill so LOW.

Well yeah, that's the whole point of a swarm. Instead of investing points in high PS you bring more ships and just bury your opponent under a giant bucket of dice. If that's not a strategy that appeals to you then just pretend that swarms don't exist.

Farlander - sounds so great, but he eats up a ton of points and doesn't even land me a PS 9 ship. So I feel the need to add one and then the list feels too tight on points to get sufficient offense going.

Put VI on Farlander for PS 9.

Tricked out Tycho/Jake - seems like so much fun, but ****. 2 attack dice out of 25-30% of your list? That is hard to swallow.

Add proton rockets. That's a huge alpha strike with the mobility to deliver it, and 2-3 dice should be enough to clean up the leftovers while using their superior maneuverability to dodge arcs and ensure that even if it takes a while to finish off everything they're not going to be shooting back at you.

Heck, I even have a hard time with Zs like Cracken justifying 19 points for a ship with a 2 statline.

Cracken isn't just two attack dice at PS 8, he's also a free action for someone else. At only 19 points that's an incredibly good deal.

Etahn Swarm - Pilot Skill so LOW.

Well yeah, that's the whole point of a swarm. Instead of investing points in high PS you bring more ships and just bury your opponent under a giant bucket of dice. If that's not a strategy that appeals to you then just pretend that swarms don't exist.

X-Wing is funny. I was just in another thread suggesting things for your list. It must be easier to "see" things for others than for yourself.

Farlander may be the most frustrating ship of the bunch. I can put VI on him, but then what do I add to make the most effective use of his ability? I keep looking at builds with Opportunist. But then I need a token-stripper at higher PS. Then I think "Stay on Target", but I still feel I need a 9+ addition to the list. He and Jake are really giving me fits because I was excited for them but just can't make it work. Maybe I'll just throw VI on Jake and put them in a list together

As for the Etahn swarm, yeah, I see that. Maybe I'm just struggling with that one because the benefit of Etahn I just don't like as much as the benefit of Howlrunner. That one is sort of an outlier to the individual pilots/cards I'm struggling with. I get the concept but I guess I'm just not all that keen on Etahn's ability.

I can put VI on him, but then what do I add to make the most effective use of his ability?

Red maneuvers. The b-wing's dial is awesome when you can use advanced sensors to get "focus" + target lock/barrel roll (or even evade with crew Jan!), do a k-turn or 1-turn, and then end the turn stress-free. If you just look at the red maneuvers you have everything you could want: sharp turns in a tight space, a k-turn, and fast straight/bank. And if you're really desperate you could always just do a white or green maneuver and take a normal focus.