I wanted to write some information down while it's fresh, in case anyone out there is interested in seeing a Fan Edit of the PT.

http://fanedit.org/ifdb/component/content/article/79-fanedit-listings/fanfix/72-fall-of-the-jedi-episode-i-the-phantom-menace

So for years I had heard of "The Phantom Edit", a fan edit of Episode 1 that received a lot of praise for the perceived improvements it made to the original theatrical cut. I watched it, and it was pretty good, so I watched "Attack of the Phantom", the same editors cut of Episode 2, and I enjoyed that one too. However, by this time, I had become aware of another Fan Editor named Q2, who's edits of the PT seemed widely regarded as the best available.

So I went back to square one and watched all three "Fall of the Jedi" edits last week.

Wow. I could not believe a) the quality of the picture/sound b) the masterful use of deleted scenes c) how much the tone shifts based upon how a film is edited.

Before I continue, I need to make some points:

1) The link above is a WIKI, and contains NO DOWNLOAD LINKS.

2) I do not support Piracy - if you don't own a copy of the PT, and want to view the Fan Edit, please also buy a copy of the PT.

With that said, I'm going to ramble a bit, so you have been warned, wall of text:

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1. The original theatrical release of the Prequel Trilogy:

I am not a single-minded hater of the PT. There are things I liked:

I liked Naboo. It's achitecture, it's two sentient civilizations concept, the fighters, the architecture. I think it was a well executed introduction to the idea of the Old Republic being "a more civilized age". I liked the Gungans in concept, if not in execution.

I liked the rise of Palpatine story arc.

I liked the two homages to the old epic Rome movies - the pod race in I and the arena in II. I thought Pod Racing was a cool idea, and it spawned a great game.

I liked seeing the Star Wars universe in all it's crowded, massive cosmopolitan glory. Coruscant, Tatooine, Geonosis, Utapau, Kamino. It was a beautiful universe brought to life.

I liked the casting choices (minus poor Jake Lloyd - who I don't hate, btw).

I HATED: (I'll try to keep this brief and constructive)

Green/Blue screen fatigue due to lack of physical sets.

The replacement of subtle/downplayed comedy/slapstick with overt/scenery-chewing comedy.

The weird Romeo + Juliet fan fiction parody wedged into II.

The overload of new ships. There isn't a single ship in the PT that becomes iconic (IMO) because there are JUST TOO MANY. For example, Padme has FOUR different chrome ships over 3 movies. She only needed one MF stand-in. The only ship that comes close IMO is the Trade Federation Battleship, and that never gets any good menace shots like the ISD's did. The ISD was A VILLIAN in the OT. The TFBS was a background prop.

Anyway, enough of that...what do the edits do, why did I pick FotJ over PE?

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The Phantom Edit Trilogy:

Replaces opening crawl with a fanboy attack against Lucas. Won no points with me for doing that. Edits Episode I into prettty much the same movie with the same tone, minus Midiclorians and some Jar Jar/Jake Lloyd lines. No major plot changes.

Episode II is a much more noticeable divergence from the theatrical release, but still follows the general theme and tone of the theatrical except in one major instance: The love story.

Phantom Editor (PE from now on) cuts all of the waterfall/giant butt-hamsters scene and the force-fruit dinner scene, and reedits the "I hate sand" kiss scene and the nightmare/morning after scene. What this does is change the tone from "star-crossed lovers" to more of a squabbling odd couple friendship that in a single moment turns into a one-night stand, that turns into a romantic relationship. It's an interesting change, and really showcases how important the editors job is, and how much power he wields.

Still the PE really does come over as a "pick and choose" snip job fueled by anti-lucas feelings, unlike the FotJ...

(One more chunk to say, we're almost through)

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So aside from the quality difference, FotJ takes a very different turn from PE right off the bat - the opening crawl is once again different, but it's completely plot related. It's a tighter, less confusing opening paragraph that introduces the TF/Naboo conflict as one of many bush-fire crises that are taxing the Jedi's ability to effectively mediate, and mentions that there are unfounded rumors these problems are the work of a resurgent but unnamed Sith Lord.

The first big plot change is that while the TF mention Darth Sidious, he is never shown in the film. Also, Darth Maul is never named. This version leaves all of that ambiguous - was Darth Sidious the Sith chasing the heroes, or was he just the apprentice?

The second big plot change is that R2 is an unnamed background character, and 3PO is cut completely. Jar Jar's role is changed - he mentions his home city, and we are taken straight to the Boss Nass throne room. No banishment is mentioned. Jar Jar simply joins the group out of a desire to help. No silliness in the planet core (it's not even mentioned by name).

The third big plot change is that Anakin remains on Naboo during the final space battle, and the TFBS is destroyed by the heroic actions of one of the pilots, who flies into the hanger, fires his torpedoes and escapes.

The love story in II is much more fleshed out. All the conversations are there (including the deleted one with Padme's family), but re-edited subtly to avoid excess cheese/awkwardness. The slow falling in love is much more believable, and you actually see the moments Padme starts to realise her strong attraction to Anakin's personality, not just his looks. The dynamic changes the entire tone of Episode II.

This tone is repeated in Episode III, but it's now between Palpatine and Anakin, as they slowly descend into an open embrace of the Dark Side. I'm not going to say any more about III unless asked, because there are some serious twists/plot changes that I don't want to spoil, but that make the film such a brilliant re-edit.

I will say this, my absolute favorite change is that Fall of the Jedi manages to not spoil anything that's coming in the OT. I know that sounds unbelievable, but it's true. It's a perfect continuity that spoils nothing that is to follow.

10/10.

If this interests you, I seriously suggest you seek it out. It belongs in the collection of any true star wars fan, regardless of how you view the PT.

Definitely going to give this fall of the jedi thing a looksee. Thanks for letting us know about it.

If anyone has a safe place to get/watch this, please let us know. I google'd quickly (I'm at work) and thus far only found a list of sites Im not inclined to trust. When I get home I may gamble on a few of them.

Honestly, I'd prefer to buy dvds of these if they aren't too expensive and of decent quality.

If anyone has a safe place to get/watch this, please let us know. I google'd quickly (I'm at work) and thus far only found a list of sites Im not inclined to trust. When I get home I may gamble on a few of them.

Honestly, I'd prefer to buy dvds of these if they aren't too expensive and of decent quality.

The best place to get this stuff starts with a P and ends with a Y so you can download T's *wink wink* I do own the PT on dvd and blue ray so come at me bro

If anyone has a safe place to get/watch this, please let us know. I google'd quickly (I'm at work) and thus far only found a list of sites Im not inclined to trust. When I get home I may gamble on a few of them.

Honestly, I'd prefer to buy dvds of these if they aren't too expensive and of decent quality.

The problem with "buying" them is that it's piracy - and illegal - to sell something you don't own, whether it's a movie or sugar cane. If you are interested where I (safely and legally) downloaded them, PM me. But I'm pushing what is allowed on this forum as it is with the Off-Topic, I'm not going to link anything in a thread.

If anyone has a safe place to get/watch this, please let us know. I google'd quickly (I'm at work) and thus far only found a list of sites Im not inclined to trust. When I get home I may gamble on a few of them.

Honestly, I'd prefer to buy dvds of these if they aren't too expensive and of decent quality.

The best place to get this stuff starts with a P and ends with a Y so you can download T's *wink wink* I do own the PT on dvd and blue ray so come at me bro

While you can indeed find them at Panda Quay (Where as you correctly stated, you can download Twinkies), I was only able to get Episode I to work. I had to go elsewhere for II and III.

Sounds pretty good. I'm not a big hater of the PT as most people are, and I enjoy them for what they are despite bad acting/plots etc.

Sounds pretty good. I'm not a big hater of the PT as most people are, and I enjoy them for what they are despite bad acting/plots etc.

The best thing I can say about it is that it made me (a moderate to heavy PT hater) like the PT in it's own right. Phantom Edit comes across as an angry OT Fanboy's rant (it is), where as FotJ feels like it was edited by someone who knew what Lucas was going for but understood that Lucas lacked the editing skill/fresh second perspective to effectively get those ideas across, just like the situation with Episode IV.

The fact you admit that the PT has problems but you love it any way is MORE of a reason to watch FotJ - it will allow you to enjoy everything you love with less flaws, and without any of the anti-Lucas subtext.

The thing I honestly hated the most was the portrayal of for instance, Cody being good friends with Obi-Wan, and 5 seconds later, shoots him in the back without a second thought. I mean I know the clones were programmed to be that way, but you honestly have to think, that their consciences would kick in, and make them have a battle of wills. That and the fact they go from expert soldiers to can't hit crap in the next 3 movies .

I've been showing my son the original movies, but haven't gone through these episodes yet with him. I'd heard of fan edits, but didn't really know much about them. I'll have to check this out. Before this, my only hope was that the Hollywood love of redoing movies after 20-30 years means someone will redo those movies better. This might be an answer, though.

The thing I honestly hated the most was the portrayal of for instance, Cody being good friends with Obi-Wan, and 5 seconds later, shoots him in the back without a second thought. I mean I know the clones were programmed to be that way, but you honestly have to think, that their consciences would kick in, and make them have a battle of wills. That and the fact they go from expert soldiers to can't hit crap in the next 3 movies .

You and I are sometimes at odds. But on this?

On this we most certainly agree. The Clone Wars both old and new old made their friendship seem stronger, too. So it's even more jarring now.

Granted, one could say, "Well that just shows how fanatically loyal he is to The Republic."

Except, a point was made in both the extremely canon clone wars series original and new, to make Clone Troopers seem more than just war machines, that they were indeed very, very human. So it honestly made less sense as time went on.

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I find the prequels enjoyable but I acknowledge they have some big problems. If one were to ask me what its number one biggest problem was, it was the f*cking stupid and contrived love story between Anakin and Padme. Could that be any less believable?

The relationship did have some believability added to it via The Clone Wars, where you saw that they weren't the ever loving river of loving love... love. type of couple. They did have issues, and that was a relief to see. But that didn't save how contrived it was.

Also c'mon padme you knew him as a kid jesus christ girl

The thing I honestly hated the most was the portrayal of for instance, Cody being good friends with Obi-Wan, and 5 seconds later, shoots him in the back without a second thought. I mean I know the clones were programmed to be that way, but you honestly have to think, that their consciences would kick in, and make them have a battle of wills. That and the fact they go from expert soldiers to can't hit crap in the next 3 movies .

You and I are sometimes at odds. But on this?

On this we most certainly agree. The Clone Wars both old and new old made their friendship seem stronger, too. So it's even more jarring now.

Granted, one could say, "Well that just shows how fanatically loyal he is to The Republic."

Except, a point was made in both the extremely canon clone wars series original and new, to make Clone Troopers seem more than just war machines, that they were indeed very, very human. So it honestly made less sense as time went on.

____________________________________________________________________

I find the prequels enjoyable but I acknowledge they have some big problems. If one were to ask me what its number one biggest problem was, it was the f*cking stupid and contrived love story between Anakin and Padme. Could that be any less believable?

The relationship did have some believability added to it via The Clone Wars, where you saw that they weren't the ever loving river of loving love... love. type of couple. They did have issues, and that was a relief to see. But that didn't save how contrived it was.

Also c'mon padme you knew him as a kid jesus christ girl

Even though I think "Attack of the Phantom" is inferior to "Fall of the Jedi, part 2", it is worth watching once just for the alternate romance. It's really interesting to see the different cuts and how much they differ - re-editing the scenes to imply a one-night stand is particularly interesting.

I enjoyed Adywan's edit of ANH (despite getting mixed reviews by fellas here) and look forward to seeing what he does with ESB.

I'm excited to see these FotJ edits. Thanks for sharing.

Going to give these a watch.

The age thing is a bit weird between Padme and Anakin. At the very least she's a good 8-10 years older than him. She's at least in her late 20s by AoTC, why would she be interested in a douchey 18-19 year old boy? Not a huge thing, but its odd.

I am glad he edited out the stupid Anakin piloting the Starfighter scene. It made no sense for someone who's never sat in a starfighter to be somewhat competent at piloting one. I know he raced podracers, but that would be like an F1 race car driver hoping into an F-22 and being able to fly it around like he's done it before.

Jar Jar... less of him is more than welcomed.

But the worst thing Lucas did with the PT is kill off Darth Maul in Phantom. He made the movies a disconnected mess. Honestly, there is no reason to even watch Phantom. It really doesn't give you any background story that's actually useful. Do you care where Anakin came from? He's such a different character by AotC that it doesn't matter. You don't really care about Naboo either, as its not a focal point anymore. You miss out on the worst of Jar Jar. With no villain to carry over into the 2nd one, it makes the 1st movie a pointless setup story.

Darth Maul was badass. Yeah you had the Sidious character, but you don't really see him as an evil villain yet. He is just some dude in the background. The Separtists were silly Asian aliens. That weren't necessarily evil. They just wanted money. But Maul was a Sith and an awesome one. Killing him off was a huge mistake. Now in AotC you have some old dude who isn't scary or intimidating in Dooku. Even his name, Count Dooku, sounds like a stupid vampire in a 50s "B" movie. So dumb.

I doubt they will ever remake the PT, but if they do, Darth Maul needs to live and eventually be killed by Anakin.

Going to give these a watch.

The age thing is a bit weird between Padme and Anakin. At the very least she's a good 8-10 years older than him. She's at least in her late 20s by AoTC, why would she be interested in a douchey 18-19 year old boy? Not a huge thing, but its odd.

He's not douchey at all in FotJ. He comes over as much quieter, then starts to open up once he and Padme start getting to know each other. Also, according to canon, there are only 4 years between them.

I am glad he edited out the stupid Anakin piloting the Starfighter scene. It made no sense for someone who's never sat in a starfighter to be somewhat competent at piloting one. I know he raced podracers, but that would be like an F1 race car driver hoping into an F-22 and being able to fly it around like he's done it before.

Agreed.

Jar Jar... less of him is more than welcomed.

But the worst thing Lucas did with the PT is kill off Darth Maul in Phantom. He made the movies a disconnected mess. Honestly, there is no reason to even watch Phantom. It really doesn't give you any background story that's actually useful. Do you care where Anakin came from? He's such a different character by AotC that it doesn't matter. You don't really care about Naboo either, as its not a focal point anymore. You miss out on the worst of Jar Jar. With no villain to carry over into the 2nd one, it makes the 1st movie a pointless setup story.

Darth Maul was badass. Yeah you had the Sidious character, but you don't really see him as an evil villain yet. He is just some dude in the background. The Separtists were silly Asian aliens. That weren't necessarily evil. They just wanted money. But Maul was a Sith and an awesome one. Killing him off was a huge mistake. Now in AotC you have some old dude who isn't scary or intimidating in Dooku. Even his name, Count Dooku, sounds like a stupid vampire in a 50s "B" movie. So dumb.

I doubt they will ever remake the PT, but if they do, Darth Maul needs to live and eventually be killed by Anakin.

I agree with most of what you said, but again FotJ fixes that imo by only mentioning Sidious. You see Maul, and you have no idea whether this is Sidious, or just an apprentice. Also, Dooku is so much stronger a character in FotJ 2 - you really see him as an anti-Palpatine.

Well obviously flying starfighters is JUST like driving podracers.

Obviously.

BECAUSE THIS IS PODRACING!

Well obviously flying starfighters is JUST like driving podracers.

Obviously.

BECAUSE THIS IS PODRACING!

To this day, his casting is a mystery to me. For one thing, it makes the "he's too old" stuff seem a bit silly. He should have been 16 or 17.

Well obviously flying starfighters is JUST like driving podracers.

Obviously.

BECAUSE THIS IS PODRACING!

To this day, his casting is a mystery to me. For one thing, it makes the "he's too old" stuff seem a bit silly. He should have been 16 or 17.

I chalk it up to the ewok factor.

His age is because of attachment issues with his mother, which leads to attachment issues with padme, which leads to him turning to the darkside.

If he was older in TPM, he wouldn't have been so distraught about leaving his mother, that's why Lucas decided to make him 9/10.

You can debate the idea of it, but the reasoning is sound I think.

His age is because of attachment issues with his mother, which leads to attachment issues with padme, which leads to him turning to the darkside.

If he was older in TPM, he wouldn't have been so distraught about leaving his mother, that's why Lucas decided to make him 9/10.

You can debate the idea of it, but the reasoning is sound I think.

I get it, but I think having a 18-24 year old meeting an 18-24 year old who was engaged/married to someone else would have been a better hook. It would have negated the need for the whole "celibate Jedi" thing as the reason it was forbidden love.

In fact, I think Naboo should have just been Alderaan...

The thing I honestly hated the most was the portrayal of for instance, Cody being good friends with Obi-Wan, and 5 seconds later, shoots him in the back without a second thought. I mean I know the clones were programmed to be that way, but you honestly have to think, that their consciences would kick in, and make them have a battle of wills. That and the fact they go from expert soldiers to can't hit crap in the next 3 movies .

You and I are sometimes at odds. But on this?

On this we most certainly agree. The Clone Wars both old and new old made their friendship seem stronger, too. So it's even more jarring now.

Granted, one could say, "Well that just shows how fanatically loyal he is to The Republic."

Except, a point was made in both the extremely canon clone wars series original and new, to make Clone Troopers seem more than just war machines, that they were indeed very, very human. So it honestly made less sense as time went on.

____________________________________________________________________

I find the prequels enjoyable but I acknowledge they have some big problems. If one were to ask me what its number one biggest problem was, it was the f*cking stupid and contrived love story between Anakin and Padme. Could that be any less believable?

The relationship did have some believability added to it via The Clone Wars, where you saw that they weren't the ever loving river of loving love... love. type of couple. They did have issues, and that was a relief to see. But that didn't save how contrived it was.

Also c'mon padme you knew him as a kid jesus christ girl

Agreed, the Clone Wars was a successful salvage of the PT train wreck. The only thing I hated was the fact it screwed Mandalore up.

The thing I honestly hated the most was the portrayal of for instance, Cody being good friends with Obi-Wan, and 5 seconds later, shoots him in the back without a second thought. I mean I know the clones were programmed to be that way, but you honestly have to think, that their consciences would kick in, and make them have a battle of wills. That and the fact they go from expert soldiers to can't hit crap in the next 3 movies .

You and I are sometimes at odds. But on this?

On this we most certainly agree. The Clone Wars both old and new old made their friendship seem stronger, too. So it's even more jarring now.

Granted, one could say, "Well that just shows how fanatically loyal he is to The Republic."

Except, a point was made in both the extremely canon clone wars series original and new, to make Clone Troopers seem more than just war machines, that they were indeed very, very human. So it honestly made less sense as time went on.

____________________________________________________________________

I find the prequels enjoyable but I acknowledge they have some big problems. If one were to ask me what its number one biggest problem was, it was the f*cking stupid and contrived love story between Anakin and Padme. Could that be any less believable?

The relationship did have some believability added to it via The Clone Wars, where you saw that they weren't the ever loving river of loving love... love. type of couple. They did have issues, and that was a relief to see. But that didn't save how contrived it was.

Also c'mon padme you knew him as a kid jesus christ girl

Agreed, the Clone Wars was a successful salvage of the PT train wreck. The only thing I hated was the fact it screwed Mandalore up.

That was half retconned as just a part of mandalore. Didn't make Traviss any happier though, understandably so.

I hope to start watching it tonight with my son. I don't think he recalls too much about the original EP 1.

I agree that EP 1 was disjointed from the rest. It introduced characters and showed how disfunctional the Senate was (due to manipulation by Palpatine). That was important to lead up to the political crisis that leads to the Empire. There isn't much continuation, though. Dooku just shows up and the Clones just show up. Not much carries over from EP 1. Let's hope it's different with FotJ.

I have to admit that I'm qutie excited about this! It's almost like watching them for the first time again.

I hope to start watching it tonight with my son. I don't think he recalls too much about the original EP 1.

I agree that EP 1 was disjointed from the rest. It introduced characters and showed how disfunctional the Senate was (due to manipulation by Palpatine). That was important to lead up to the political crisis that leads to the Empire. There isn't much continuation, though. Dooku just shows up and the Clones just show up. Not much carries over from EP 1. Let's hope it's different with FotJ.

I have to admit that I'm qutie excited about this! It's almost like watching them for the first time again.

Well please do share your impressions. Since last week for the first time in my life I can't discuss a Star Wars movie because no one I know has seen it!

Thanks for the info, I watched the FOTJ - Phantom Menace, and it was certainly great. I suggest EVERYONE to watch it. I'll be continuing on to the next ones.

Though I did notice, I didn't laugh for 1.5 hrs straight. Which makes sense when you consider that a more realistic interpretation of the story SHOULD be serious. In the original version, I certainly chuckle at things like "there's always a bigger fish".

I will add, my opinion of the PT is actually good. I really enjoy those movies. They are up there for me with the original LotR trilogy. Though, I did see those movies at a young age, so my opinion is skewed.

(incoming rambling)

To further iterate this point, I HATE the Hobbit movies, for many reasons similar to why people hate the PT (Unnecessary love story, unnecessary action scenes, unnecessary comedic scenes, bad acting/directing, too much CGI, etc.), and I certainly have watched the Hobbit at a much more mentally developed stage of my life, around the same age that originally trilogy fans saw the PT for the first time.

Though, imo the Hobbit hate DOES include MORE reasons to hate, for a lover of the Tolkien universe that is, like: "poor interpretation of the book, poor use of LotR appendix story, changing appendix scenes(for god knows why), creating a long/boring set of movies (here's to "no hope for the 3rd movie"), changing wonderfully written plots/scenes just to add bad character development, including Legolas and the girl Elf...the list goes on and on.

My main point being, in my experience, it is the timing and circumstance of how/when we see these movies that may be the biggest factor in our opinions. If you grew up with the original Trilogy, those movies were aimed at attracting the youth in that time period, and the PT was aimed at the next generation of youth. Neither might really be better or worse than the other, but because of our age when viewing the movies for the first time, our opinion is skewed. (though I wish I could feel that way about the Hobbit movies, I do I do I do I do I do. I just don't get how such a wonderfully fun book could get turned into "that")

@phild0:

Glad you like led the first one. I agree, age is a factor. As for part one of FotJ, my only complaint is that the end is a bit to abrupt for my taste. But the way they turned Jar Jar into a character I didn't want to castrate just blew me away. It made his dialogue with the queen regarding their two cultures so much more interesting.

And yes, there is much less comedy, which is both good and bad. Bad because ideally you need the chuckle moments to keep things from getting too dark, but good in the sense that almost all of the comedy in TPM was unsalvegable - the bigger fish line is a good joke, but it was probably left out because Jar Jar screams through the whole sequence like Chris Tucker in 5th Element.