Hi everyone, we just started playing this game and we found lots of strange possibily of triggers or events that are unanswered in the forums.

one of which is for Dark Charm.

1. when a hero is controlled, does he become a monster and no longer a hero?

2. if so, can he defend himself when he hits himself?

3. can he use skills under the influence of charm? note that he is temporarily a monster figure now. so the hero should no longer exist on the board. though the overlord cannot use his skills, so should the hero player I believe.

~curse of the monkey god

1. when a hero becomes a monkey, can they use skills?

2. do they become a monkey token or figure? or still the same hero but suddenly losing his mind and start acting like a monkey?

3. can a knight that becomes a monkey use skills like defend? and r9ll dice?

4. can they do attribute tests and bash/lockpick doors, search for treasures, etc.?

~usage and timing of cards

1. can you cast dark fortune twice on the same dice roll coz the second roll ended in a miss?

2. should you use dash or frenzy before a monster performs his second action? or when a figure finishes his second action he automaticaly declares its end of turn?

Dark Charm:

1. Yes

2. Yes.

3. No he cannot use skills.

1. Nope

2. He's a monkey.

3. Nope.

4. Not sure off the top of my head, would have to look at the card again.

Usage:

1. No

2. No, you have to do it when you actiavte the monster.

dark charm #3 : if that's the case then the knight cannot use the defense training, exhaust shields and do anything to add defense when the overlord decides he attacks himself right?

monkey #2 : so does spells or abilities that affect heroes affect him?

monkey #4 : it stated he is a monkey, have 5 speed and cannot attack for any reason. does not state anything about other actions. this is weird like having a monkey suddenly performing defend, casting enchantments, searching treasures and attribure testing on specialy sealed doors...

usage #1 : can you explain why? I know its a rule you cannot use the same spell on a target figure. never said anything about the overlord not being able to cast the same spell twice his turn.

usage #2 : how come in the rule book, the sample explained that the overlord decided to use frenzy in mid of the monster's action?

I disagree with Whitewing here on some counts:

Dark Charm

1) He becomes a monster, but he is (as Justin has said) "heroic at heart." The hero ability remains in effect (such as Leoric,) even though he's not treated as a hero during this action.

2) Yes.

3) I don't see why the hero can't use skills. The OL definitely cannot- but why couldn't the knight use defense training to add a shield? The card doesn't say "when a hero is attacked," it says "when YOU would exhaust your shield." You're a monster, but you're still "you."

Monkey

1-4)He is treated as a monkey. It explicitly states the monkey CAN test attributes, and since he has a speed, you've got to assume he can move. I don't see any information stating he loses the ability to perform skills, special actions, or any actions other than those containing attacks (skills or otherwise.) The only thing that really confuses me about this card is whether a monkey wearing chainmail has a speed of 5 or 4. I would think 4, since chainmail says "and can't be increased above 4."

Usage:

1) From the rulebook (paraphrased) - you can't play two cards of the same name in response to the same triggering condition. The triggering condition for Dark Fortune is "after rolling dice." You roll dice, don't like it, so you play Dark Fortune. Dark Fortune doesn't create a new dice roll , it let's you reroll, in other words, try again. To play Dark Fortune a second time would be playing a card of the same name on that same original dice roll. The reroll doesn't count as an independent trigger.

2) "When activating" means "any time during activation." You can move a monster, attack with it, then play "Frenzy" and attack again. This has been ruled on.

The Curse of the Monkey God card text says "Monkeys cannot roll defense dice (except to test attributes), have a speed of 5 and cannot attack for any reason."

So I think it's clear, the monkey can't defend against ANY attacks, which precludes using defend, unless you want to take the full damage, without being able to reduce it in any way. If my unarmoured healer is going to get hit by a massive attack, I might consider it; but if I'm in that situation, the heroes are probably already doomed

And I think since it says you can't attack, or defend... there's not many dice left to roll, other than ability tests, which are specifically allowed.

@Zaltyre: Since the effect is "till the end of the hero's next turn" (emphasis mine) if I were the afected heroe, on my next turn I'd unequip my armour and make a run for an objective or a strategic location. Hey, you get speed 5, or 10 if you double move. Make the best of a bad situation and go with it.

Zaltyre, hero abilities are passive and remain active, they can't be turned off, so they remain on period. However, the card explicity states to treat them as a monster while under the effects.

The hero can't use skills because the hero is under the control of the overlord until the action resolves fully.

I might have been wrong about the monkey card, I literally never use it and have never seen it used, so I probably misremember the text.

Guess I missed the ruling on what what activating means. I always assumed it meant when you choose to activate the monster, at the start of the monster's activation. *sigh*. Freaking poorly defined abilities.

Zaltyre, hero abilities are passive and remain active, they can't be turned off, so they remain on period. However, the card explicity states to treat them as a monster while under the effects.

The hero can't use skills because the hero is under the control of the overlord until the action resolves fully.

I might have been wrong about the monkey card, I literally never use it and have never seen it used, so I probably misremember the text.

Guess I missed the ruling on what what activating means. I always assumed it meant when you choose to activate the monster, at the start of the monster's activation. *sigh*. Freaking poorly defined abilities.

Whether or not an ability is passive isn't the issue, as the OL doesn't get control of the hero's passive skills, either- for example, if a Skirmisher has "Unstoppable," the OL cannot use that to change the blue die if he missed on a DC attack, even though that ability is "always on" (unless the hero is knocked out, I suppose, but the same goes for hero abilities.)

If your argument is that the OL also controls the defense during a DC attack (when a hero is attacking himself,) then I understand your point. The OL couldn't exhaust defense training at that time. I guess I'm thinking that the OL controls the attack, but the hero player controls the defense- that could be the root of our disagreement on this matter.

EDIT: As I think about it, Whitewing, I think you're right. There's no real basis for my idea that "the OL rolls attack, but the hero rolls defense." The OL is controlling the hero for the whole attack, so he gets to roll everything. He must roll defense dice, but it would be his call whether or not to add a shield using the gear (he wouldn't have access to "Defense Training.") However, he could potentially exhaust the gear so that the next monster can do more damage. I'm convinced- the hero is not in charge of his own defense roll in that instance, so he can't use skills related to that, and the OL is not given control of them, either.

Right, that was the point I was making

thanks guys, how bout the 5 speed monkey on a 3 speed limit platemail? I think assuming the monkey throwing off his armours so he can run with 5 speed is preety thematic and not technical. if we follow that thought pattern then by default the monkey can also declare that he unequipped all even weapons so that if it is dark charmed, it just damages itself by picking its nostrills. (that is if it can attack which is not), however, if there are cards ability or equips that can affect a hero passively it still works right? meaning the monkey still has those gears strapped on.

also, as overlord, I need to know what is the best strategies for deck building. can you guys shed some idea as which cards are always a must in your decks? specialy in the finale battles.

ex: base set ranking

#1 2xFrenzy

#2 1xScheemes

#3 1xDarkFortune

#4 ....

....

..

Labyrynth of Ruin basic 2

#1 ....

That really depends on the quest, adonis, but as a rule, if I'm playing Basic 1, I never leave home without 2x Dash and 2x Frenzy. In a game about spending actions, there's nothing like free actions. Beyond that, Dark Might is gold, and my next several cards are made up of things I've purchased, and the ones I throw away are, as I said, based on the quest and the hero party.

If I'm playing basic 2, same deal. Uncontrolled Power is lovely, as is Mental Error. Befuddle is great if attribute tests are part of the quest/ a hero skill. Flurry, Blinding Speed, and Dirty Fighting are up there, too.

tonight I fight those wretched heroes jane the wildlanded, arvic the spiritspitter, that ugly widow runemaster and the tiny knight grisban. they always pick on poor innocent zachareth who just wants to reclaim what is rightfully his. please help me make him become king in the final quest. what will be your card choices and open group in both encounters of "the man who would be king" :'(

note I have already taken scheemes, 2 web traps, unthuk demon trap, the other level 2 saboteur that is not monkey. i have still 2 xp and not sure if i should start getting the monkey trap or 2 other cards

thanks guys, how bout the 5 speed monkey on a 3 speed limit platemail? I think assuming the monkey throwing off his armours so he can run with 5 speed is preety thematic and not technical. if we follow that thought pattern then by default the monkey can also declare that he unequipped all even weapons so that if it is dark charmed, it just damages itself by picking its nostrills. (that is if it can attack which is not), however, if there are cards ability or equips that can affect a hero passively it still works right? meaning the monkey still has those gears strapped on.

Equiping items is a beginning of turn action. The turn you curse the hero, he can't choose to suddenly unequip stuff mid turn. What he declared at the beginning, is what he has equipped until his next turn . At the beginning of his next turn, the character who was 'monkeyed' can unequip his aarmour and run around, but he will be unarmoured during the OL's turn, until his next turn , if he does so.

The same applies for unequiping weapons agaisnt the probability of Dark Charm. Doesn't work. There's a few weapons whose text states you can unequip them, in response to specific things happening, but those are the exceptions that confirm the rule.

This is something we've had to ensure to enforce at our gaming group because of players who keep different weapons for various abilities. No, you can't switch our that rune that does hellacious amounts of damage for the one that stuns. No, that bow isn't exotic, so you can't move that character and you can't suddenly decide the attack was made with your whip.

Edit to add:

And yes, anything he does have equiped, still affects him, respecting his new status. He has a weapon, but he can't attack, so you can't use Dark Charm to make him attack himself. He still has his armour, but he can't roll defence, but if it gives him extra health, he still has those extra hearts, etc etc...

and tge 3 speed max penalty I presume

and tge 3 speed max penalty I presume

If you have an item equipped that restricts your speed, yes.