Since I'm new at this forum, at the beginning I'd like to say hello to all forumites.

Now, on topic: I GM campaign on street/gang level in hive, so looting enemies after combat is common practice for my PCs.After next session they will probably have 1 car (roughly SUV equivalent) and 2 motorbikes (type of machine ganger would drive - fast and loud).The question is: what free market prices for those machines should be?Yes, I know it's a big Galaxy, prices may vary and I, as a GM will make final decision but I would be gratefull If anyone could give me any hints on this.

P.S. English is not my native language so sorry if I made any mistakes.

Sort of one of those things most acolytes just tend to requisition, 'borrow' and then proceed to drive like its literally stolen and the wheels/wings fall off (Course it doesn't make the tech priest happy) so its not actually something I ever bothered to put a number on. Given the economics of acolyte income making absolutely no sense at all half the time, I'm sort of pressed to come up with something really solid and figure most vehicles due to their relative complexity and sometimes rarity are only owned by big entities like the PDF, Imp Guard, Navy, Inquisitors, very wealthy nobility, merchants and the like.

They're sort of like power armour and heavy bolters. Unfeasibly expensive and rare to the point that they're maintained by massive Imperial organisations and ultimately, owned by the state itself... in private hands, they're more than likely stolen

At the moment they're not accolytes yet, they have to prove they worth before that.They haven't even got themselves hive ID yet, they must make a living (not legally) and chase some heretics at the same time so I know they won't leave such a bounty on street.

As for availability of ground vechicles, I disagree - it would be difficult to keep hive functional without private transport for blue and white collar level citinzenry. Even more important: all those small but necessary enterprises that fill economic niches to small for big companies to bother.

bonehead said:

Thats what rail mass transit is four . No, seriously: "private vehicles" is something for the very rich and famous...or "group ownership" like a guild or a government division.

Anyhow, I expect -some- gangs in town to own the equivalent of motorcycle. First, since it is "kewl", second because I assume "needless use of internal combustion engines" to be hihgly illegal (needless issues for allready-on-limtis air filtering/recycling) but if I would have to tag a price image on it...

I would assume something about some hundred thrones for a "bike-type" vehicle and something along the lines of some thousand thrones for a car or transporters. "Small one person buggies" being in-between. The expesinve thing bein engine and gear. And in addition, now way of keeping it running without the help of some renegade technomat or other heretek. Althoug, since Hivers tend to habe "Tech-Use" as a basic, they might be able to "keep the thing running" till something really "breakes".

Why some hundreds for a bike?
I base it against weaponary. A chain axe, for example, is about 500 thrones. A bike is "more material", but less complex. The mighty and arcane technology of a power sword comes for 2,500 thrones. Again, a ground car (not a hover one!) is much more "raw material", but in its cheapest form (like a WWII-Style jeep or transporter) much-much less complex.

Sure, this one can be argued this way and that, and the first chance for a real solution might be foudn within RogueTrade...but as long as they go for hundreds of thrones and are "scarce" or "rare"...why not?

My two cents

My take on it is rather than pricing the vechiles up pick the best price for the long term game.

If they get a couple of thousand thrones and start running around with power swords or carapace armour will that upset the smooth running of the game? Will a couple of hundred? See what they want and whether gaining access to some of the more expensive shinies will tilt the game off balance for what you want to run.

On an abstract note my personal take on ground car ownership is that it will varies so wildly from world to world. There will be some worlds blessed with an STC for Ground Vechiles and they will be cheaper than guns. A world without that STC design would treat them as miracleous machines and be owned by only the most elite and wealthy. So the other consideration is does your hiveworld have such a STC design or does it import them? Remember the Imperium is (usually) a place of economic extremes.

Just a couple of my thoughts.

The price of ground cars and their avalability really depends on the world in question. For example, workers in a hive dont really need a car because of mass transit systems (mag-lev rail ect) wheres a some one living on an agri world or an Imperial world of not much significance (i.e. compairable to a real world city) gound vehicles are required to get from home to work to curch to work to home to curch to home again.

Hive gangers would use things like bikes and very rarly because of the cramped build up enviroments. Then again this is the Imperium so litteraly enything can happen and all that ive just said could be disregarded.

In my opinion bikes shuld be worth around 500 Thrones depending on what features it has and such. 750-800 Thrones for something like a flatbed truck. Again prices are veriable. Or you could go the true ganger route and just steal them!

My question was about vechicles soon-to-be-looted by my PCs, they propably try to sell at least some of them.

World is Vaxanide in peryphery subsector, hive resembles the one in Gaunt's Ghost story "Necropolis" so it is not average spire-city and requires transport other than railroad/maglev, especially that most of supplies come from the same continent.

STC of bikes and SUV are kept on other continent in Vaxanidehive - the capitol of planet, as my hive is more focused on heavy industry.

freelancer said:

A real-world American city. I'm in the biggest city in Europe and haven't driven a car in 15 years.

bogi_khaosa said:

Touche my friend, touche.

And Bonehead: Veruvian hive is a good example, (altho its missing the kilometer "ground level" and undergound underhive and sump complex of a "standard hive") your hive of Vaxanide, Baised on your example, id say that maintaining vehicles is cheaper in your hive (because of the manufacturing orientation) same the the price of heavy transport vehicles, Cagro 8's and the like. Tho having an STC would make the cost of Bikes and Imperial equiviliant SUV's significantly cheaper. For re-sell value it would be baised on the condition of the vehicle and your gangers fellowship score (youve got to be a good back alley salesmen to get a good price) Are you using the Apocrypha vehicle rules?

Unfortunatelly, I do not have Apocrypha.Is it some sourcebook?

Its a rule expansion for Dark Heresy when it was controlled and governed by Black Industries. It has rules for diffrent type of vehicles, vehicle combat as well as a vast array of examples. (My favourate is the Termite and the sentinal, "can you say squish?" lol)

rapidshare.com/files/127484407/DH-Apocrypha_Vehicles.pdf.html Heres a rapid share of it. I use it I can conferm its legit and the original download from BI was free so no copyright infringment.

Oddly, the Vehicle Apocrypha seems to be the only BI web supplement missing from the current support list available from FFG . But, yes, it was a free download. Very handy little supplement. Be sure to familiarize yourself with the rules errata as well.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

I believe that's because FFG has plans to redo the rules for vehicle combat (which is pretty much all that supplement is about) which should be seeing it's first incarnation in Rogue Trader... at least that's the way it seems to be panning out.

Let´s talk gelt!

@Bonehead
If I get you ride, you are talking about "bikes and buggies", both with a "internal combustion engine" burning up fuel (not e-cells or similiar).

For the bikes I would assume 300 to 500 thrones for a new one with an availability of "average". Even on an industrial world with an matching stc, I do not expect to be a real "market" for private civilian vehicles like in our (western) world. But, something tells me that the bikes your pc´s have are "bad quality". To start with (re-fitted, stolen, third-hand, abused and badly kept etc.) or as a result of how the got them (looted after a battle? Knocking off the rider and sending the thinig down?). So, base-worth 150 to 250 thrones.

For buggies I would go the same, with prices about 600 and 800 thrones, actual ground cars going for 800 to 1200 thrones.

Anyhow, I would say that they can resell the thing for 35% on a successfull barter skill. On a failure, it is 30% with another -5% for every level of failure. For every level of succes, raise the resell value by +3% for every level.

Don´t forget that they have to find some-one willing to buy, to! I would assume this be difficult check for investigation..or an ordinary one for "Common Lore: Underworld" if you are looking for fence or "chob shop"