I have tried and it is true. Infinite loops gaining resources and progress on the quest card. Good deck for the 'historic special decks' in the FFG library. ^^

Thanks .

There is a point: give some challenge to those who want to build specific decklist. I like to play a large amount of concept. I want to use the best synergies, I love to play somes combos. I can't because they are not balanced.

Define "balanced" : is there any objective way to tell a balanced card from an unbalanced one ? How could you make sure a card will keep its balance after two archs or so are released and there are many more cards in the environment ?

I forgot to congratulate you : Well done ! Your deck is a monster ! I like it for what it is : a deckbuilding piece of art.

welcome to castle Frankenstein : It's alive ! ALIVE !

It is subjective of course. Like many things in the conception of a game. Does the scenario is well balanced? Not too strong but not too weak at the same time.

To be sure that cards who are released are balanced you need someone for test them. If you are MtG (so Hasbro who own Wizards of the Coast), you have a lot of guy that you paid for that. If you are a LCG you can find players who can be happy to do it. Dwarf thematic can be crazy since they print so many cards for them, like two years ago.

You also can had enough experience in the cards game to see what it ok and what it is not. And I'm pretty sure that the FFG team who work on this game are more LoTR huge fans than cards games competitor. No need of lot of archs to see that Daeron's rune is just insane. I told to everyone that doomed cards where insane instantly after seeing them.

But sure no one is perfect. Even MtG, or Hearthstone team make huge mistakes. So you need to banned or change some cards.

I dont generally like ban lists or errata of any kind, but they are necessary.

Sure, this is a coop game which you can tailor to your taste. I never play pure outlands myself.

but what happens if a guy shows up with a deck like this in gencon or the fellowship events? What if he is a rules lawyer that whines about having a legit deck, even if its to the detriment of the other players?

My solution is to errata "add card to victory display after use" in problematic cards.

Add to victory display only disturb loop combos.

Play pure outlands is not a problem. It only become a problem when you can have 12 resources and draw 7 additional cards on the turn one.

Come on. I just do the opposite way: see what it disturbing in all the problematic decks. Loop is just a funny concept among other powerful synergies. What about play your entire deck in dwarf of outland decks in 2 or 3 turns? That also possible and no one of your proposition take this into account.

Soluition is simple: just don't do it. No one forces you.

Not everyone thinks like this. Some players are "spikes" to use an MTG term, that is powergamers and their playstyle compulsively prevents them from ignoring these gimmicky combos.

Imagine such a player showing up in your FLGS with such a deck, smirking. What do you do?

Sure I'm a spike. So I love competition and try to get the best combination. If it is a combo it don't disturb me. And I ask to FFG to balance cards to make sure that there is many decks whoes are approximate on the same power level, and that power level don't make the game too easy. If they don't they can loose some players. Not thousands of them, but a few ones.

Come on. I just do the opposite way: see what it disturbing in all the problematic decks. Loop is just a funny concept among other powerful synergies. What about play your entire deck in dwarf of outland decks in 2 or 3 turns? That also possible and no one of your proposition take this into account.

Soluition is simple: just don't do it. No one forces you.

Not everyone thinks like this. Some players are "spikes" to use an MTG term, that is powergamers and their playstyle compulsively prevents them from ignoring these gimmicky combos.

Imagine such a player showing up in your FLGS with such a deck, smirking. What do you do?

What about fixing the tournament rules? Moreover, at the moment these rules need to be fixed.

For the moment tournament rules are the only thing that force you to play at least fifty cards. So we all play with tournament rules all the times.

But yeah they could set additional rules only for the official events. But I won't fix the problem of some cards that aren't balanced.

Congratulation to Rouxxxor and his brillance of mind.

I agree with many of you.

No need to made erratas, an update of tournament rule is sufficient (Restricted list, Ban list etc ...).

I already start to not playing doomed cards. If they continue on the same way it could get me stop playing.

Too. Much. French. People.

I didn't see much thread about meetup in store, but most of them had a "bring your own deck or take one we made" policy. This allow the people with broken deck to "ruin" the fun. Maybe they'll just get kick out of the store or will not dare play it, but it is possible.

And then, they are store that made race against the shadow tournament. All I read was that players bring more thematic deck than power deck, so it is always fine. It seems to me that "Spike" players are restraining themself for now, but they'll get frustrated one day or another.

Sure it is not because you are Spike that you want to be hated of to frustrate others players. But yeah it is annoying that I can't bring the deck I work on because he is too strong.

Please, Rouxxor, it could be interesting, just to figure out the problem (and see more crazy-combo possibilities), to know some other crazy combos (not the same deck changing 2-3 cards, of course).

Okay. I will try. It take me a lot of time because I only know the french names of the cards but I will post some decks on CGDB. Because I stop working on them since a while I will not have statistics and all the things. But I can show you how it could be done.

Come on. I just do the opposite way: see what it disturbing in all the problematic decks. Loop is just a funny concept among other powerful synergies. What about play your entire deck in dwarf of outland decks in 2 or 3 turns? That also possible and no one of your proposition take this into account.

Soluition is simple: just don't do it. No one forces you.

Not everyone thinks like this. Some players are "spikes" to use an MTG term, that is powergamers and their playstyle compulsively prevents them from ignoring these gimmicky combos.

Imagine such a player showing up in your FLGS with such a deck, smirking. What do you do?

You enforce a restricted and banned card list that I mentioned previously, end of story. And you make it public before the FLGS, whatever the FLGS is.

As for people who can't make themselves NOT play infinite-combo-loop decks at home unless cards get errata-d, well this is kinda their problem. I can see some minor erratas happening, but changing cards entirely how was suggested by the original poster is completely uncalled for.

Please can you read what I post before. This is not about playing loop. It is playing around stupids doom cards that allow a lot of combos decks. Because I'm a spike I'm not interested by playing a theme if I can't make the best of it. So they ruin all the multi player mode with this stupids doomed cards. I never loose at 3 or more players after playing a legacy of numenor on the turn one. And even at two players if you play a deck were cards are better together than when you have them one by one (so playing with synergies, like dwarf or outlands) when you can draw mores cards and have more resources on the turn one you can put in play what you need immediately and just win. If I have to stop playing all this thematics because nobody think about this it will be very sad.

You just become too powerful for the encounter deck if you can play all of your hand immediately.

Doomed cards are not stupid, they're strong, but they're strong for a price. Well, I'm sorry that you can't play without overpowered combos if they exists, I certainly can, and doomed cards never felt gamebreaking for me. In fact, I've lost numerous times in a 3-4 player games where Legacy of Numenor were played at the turn 1 or 2. You're a good player and you use best decks available - good for you, but it doesn't means that all of the community are the same. In fact, some people don't even own entire currently released collection, and they most of all could use cards like Deep Knowledge and Legacy of Numenor.

And don't get me wrong, we didn't purposely built weak decks just to "have fun" - those decks were finely designed around each other and had some good synergies. They just were not top tier dwarf or outlands stuff.

For the moment I play deck where doomed cards are not that good. Because I will get frustrated to not play the best cards able in a deck. I'm also frustrated because they are some ultimate decks.

For the same reason I do stop games where there is a path who always make you victorious. They are not longer interesting. It is like use public transport from A to B. I want to test different solutions only if I'm not sure of what is the best. That is what a game must bring.

But of course there is also decks were doomed cards are not that strong, or even are not good (like secrecy deck). It is also fun. But I want to have some official response to problem in the conception of the cards. I don't want to play with my own correction of the cards.

This is the whole different problem of this game: extremely low and strict player cards pool.

Public transport is a routine. The game is an interesting, engaging process where you constantly forced to make decisions and face consequences of your decisions. Sure, I can build some ultimate Outlands crap and steamroll most of the quests, but I like building different decks and combinations of decks, while trying to make them actually work.

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Please, Rouxxor, it could be interesting, just to figure out the problem (and see more crazy-combo possibilities), to know some other crazy combos (not the same deck changing 2-3 cards, of course).

Okay. I will try. It take me a lot of time because I only know the french names of the cards but I will post some decks on CGDB. Because I stop working on them since a while I will not have statistics and all the things. But I can show you how it could be done.

It will be much appreciated. I used to play combo in MtG and I would like to understand how combos really work on this game, so more decks are needed for a further analysis. I think that we are only going to be ready to find a proper solution for unbalanced decks only with a deeper knowledge about possibilities of combo in lotr, so your decks and ideas are interesting. My point at this moment is that before going to errata on a single card or two cards from the year's-crazy-combo-deck, it is better to adopt the proper solution having in mind that future combos, following a certain pattern, are going to appear soon, as card pool grows.

Ps: as you could see, I made some kind of mistake when trying to quote the previous messages...

FLGS: friendly local gaming store.

Doomed cards are fine,

Restricted lists and limited but vital errata is more than fine, they are necessary for the game.

Broken combos happen all the time in card games, this is nothing special to be honest. Errata and move on.

Is it possible to inform directly Caleb Grace about this deck and this post, to make some errata or limitation?

Is it possible to inform directly Caleb Grace about this deck and this post, to make some errata or limitation?

In my opinion this should not be a major concern in Caleb's agenda. First, tornament rules deserve some changes. Secondly, some strategies need much more powerful cards to be equal to some other "fair" strategies (dwarfs, outlands). Just forget about loops in combo decks, this is not the way to go in a narrative coop card game, and claim for more power to weak factions.