Why isn't there a lot of diversity at high levels

By darklogos, in UFS Deck Building

Posted at

darklogos said:

So why isn't more 3 max per deck and 2 max per deck limitation on cards. Every time I listen to the podcast i hear the same handful of cards rambled off over and over and over again. Why aren't these cards limited to 2 per deck instead of banned. On top of that why isn't there a foundation and attack requirement. If you require a deck to have a minum of 50 percent attacks then it makes the game more agressisive. If you make it so that you can only have a set amount of foundation in your staging area it makes it so that foundations become enhancements and secondary functions to combat instead the essential focus. Then you could tone down the damage pumps. Stop people from going past their max handsize and you solve a lot of problems right there. If you could only play 20 foundation then ira-spinata and other cards that destroy foundations become risky because the other player has the chance to play something more deadly on their field. Again there are a lot of simple things that other card games do to balance themselves out by restricting use of mechanics when those mechanics become to dominant.

Posted at

If you're interested in trying out a format where you have to have 50% attacks, check out the 6x10 format, where you're required to run 10x each 1 checks, 2 checks, 3-4-5-6 checks. It's a wee bit more flexible, because you can run things like Ready for Anything (an asset with 3cc) instead of some of your attacks, but you're pretty much guaranteed that every deck will be running 20 or more attacks.

Posted at

MarcoPulleaux said:

Block 5? ****, I thought we were still postulating block 4...>_>

Blah...iuno, something tells me Hata has read the forums, or that people close to him have informed him of each and every regional which has happened since Set 12, and I'm certain, before Worlds hits, he will make a statement.

I realize that's retarded coming from a guy with zero faith in FFG and its elected officials, but eh, it's kinda interesting to magically see a large portion of the forum magically agree with things I've been saying since day 1...

personally i would be surprised if hata bans anything. if set 13 adresses as many problems as set 12, this game should be back on track. unless chuners breaks swiss champ curse at nats, i don't expect any bannings.

Posted at

I concur with trane as I don't think Hata will ban anything realistically. I do believe that there are a couple of key cards that need to go. We will see in the STOG-June soon I hope.

Posted at

sir_shajir said:

I concur with trane as I don't think Hata will ban anything realistically. I do believe that there are a couple of key cards that need to go. We will see in the STOG-June soon I hope.

I second this, i.e. I hope to see in the June STOG soon ^^

Also, the game is in the right direction, but is dominated by some decidely stronger cards pre set 11.

Simply put, the reason why there isn't a lot of diversity (and this is subjective as well, there is definately diversity, just maybe not enough for you/everyone) at the higher levels is becuase it is at the higher levels and top players are strong enough to understand what is best/better than most other cards (it is an efficiency thing). Yes, there are some cards that are not 'balanced', and yes, strong players obviously have to include these in their decks if they want to accomplish what they are setting out to accomplish (playing at the high level).

- dut

Posted at

dutpotd said:

sir_shajir said:

I concur with trane as I don't think Hata will ban anything realistically. I do believe that there are a couple of key cards that need to go. We will see in the STOG-June soon I hope.

I second this, i.e. I hope to see in the June STOG soon ^^

you mean you third thisgran_risa.gif

another reason that big tournements don't have alot of diversity is sandbagging. if sandbagging didn't exist then there would be alot more diversity.

Posted at

MarcoPulleaux said:

I realize that's retarded coming from a guy with zero faith in FFG and its elected officials, but eh, it's kinda interesting to magically see a large portion of the forum magically agree with things I've been saying since day 1...

I for one still don't agree with most of the things you say, but I do agree that the game has been in pretty bad shape for a long time.

edit: And to be honest, I've tried to express this subtly in the past but I guess I failed pretty badly at it... not really good at the whole subtlety thing. :| I know lots of words, but I'm so bad at using them

Posted at

trane said:

personally i would be surprised if hata bans anything. if set 13 adresses as many problems as set 12, this game should be back on track. unless chuners breaks swiss champ curse at nats, i don't expect any bannings.

I don't either, because every SOTG always has them yuckin it up with "WE R SO PROUD TO HAS NO BANZ", but again, these regionals did a great thing: provide obvious results to listhmus tests vis-a-vis how strong a card is, and whether it should go or not.

Also, set 12 didn't address any problems dood, it simply gave us some fun new mechanics. That's it.

Posted at

^What?

Torn Hero and Perfect Sense of Balance don't address Spiral Arrow lock?

Prominent Noblewoman didn't address Chester's Backing? (I think it's not worth running, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist)

There weren't a whole lot of new answers for some of the biggest problems (Spike, Spinta), okay. But Set 12 did good things beyond simply "look at all these cool combos you can do!!!!!"

Posted at

Wafflecopter said:

^What?

Torn Hero and Perfect Sense of Balance don't address Spiral Arrow lock?

Prominent Noblewoman didn't address Chester's Backing? (I think it's not worth running, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist)

There weren't a whole lot of new answers for some of the biggest problems (Spike, Spinta), okay. But Set 12 did good things beyond simply "look at all these cool combos you can do!!!!!"

They made answers to BRT and Forethought, there are answers to spike and spinta just no one but evil run them...

Posted at

Quick queston? What is sandbaging?

Posted at

Circumventing diversity rules by playing a character with your desired symbols (probably including air) and having Chun-Li in your sideboard

Posted at

what are the diversity rules by chance as well?

Posted at

darklogos said:

what are the diversity rules by chance as well?

Only one version of a named starting character will make top 8

IE: If Ryu 1 is 4-0-0 and Ryu 2 is 3-1-0 even if Ryu 2's record is better than a Ken that went 2-1-1 the Ken would make it because Ryu 1 made it into top 8 thus diversifying Ryu 2

Get it?

Posted at

Then why allow sidebaring of a secondary character. Or why isn't the use of secondary character marked against you or limited? That would force people to play straight up.

Posted at

darklogos said:

Then why allow sidebaring of a secondary character. Or why isn't the use of secondary character marked against you or limited? That would force people to play straight up.

Because sometimes you have to LOSE in order to switch characters, and really, if your deck is so bad it has to lose to swap characters, maybe it wasn't meant to win in the first place? >_>

Posted at

Yeah -- you have to play game 1 as your starting character, who will have to deal with diversity. If you can't win with that character, then (hopefully) the character in your sideboard isn't so overpowered that you can bring them in and win games 2 and 3 reliably. If you CAN win with your starting character, why bother taking him out?

Posted at

So the diversity rule is there to protect weaker players.

Posted at

Sandbagging, despite being touted a lot on this forum and the forum that preceded it, is NOT a viable strategy. Nearly every deck people look at as "sandbagging" decks that make top 8 are actually NOT sandbagging decks, but decks which have a character sideboard option for certain matchups but win most of their matches by sticking with the original character of the deck.

Posted at

darklogos said:

So the diversity rule is there to protect weaker players.

It's there to prevent any tournaments from ever having the same deck, card for card, make top 8. And as of late, there aren't any decks that share a huge (50+/60) number of cards and differ only on the starting character, possibly excluding Air Spinta/Spike decks.