In the case of Lando and Han, it was probably because they were crazy enough to volunteer to lead those particular missions.
The Endor mission to take down the shield generators was probably seen as pretty much being a suicide mission, and the Death Star assault itself an "all or nothing" gambit. So if you've got two charismatic guys with some amount of leadership ability (proven or alleged) that are willing to lead those particular missions, I doubt the Alliance is in a position to say "no."
[SPOILERS]: Star Wars: Rebels - Thoughts?
I think we try to rationalize too much a cartoon series aimed to kids (and teenagers?).
This really. I gave a glance at it, it's fairly obivous that the target audience is usually people who don't really care a great deal about sound tactics; they want to see action and the hero's win.
MST3K Mantra
Star Wars is very much a "don't overthink it, just sit back and enjoy the show" type of franchise.
my question is why was the empire blockading the planet to begin with? there was no real reason offered than we are empire we bad you starve to death now.
It sounded like the planet was being blockaded purely to serve as bait to draw out the rebels.
Perhaps they suspected the rebels were in the area and set up the blockade to lure them into attacking?
Kallus states outright that "the rebel can't resist helping those in need" so yeah, it's pretty clear this was the Empire trying to pick the battlefield. Seems weird that once they've committed to the ploy that they only send three light cruisers, instead of at least the one Star Destroyer that we know Kallus has access to/command over, but I guess having Star Destroyers in every episode weakens their impact when they do show up
Edited by RortharrI liked it. Terrible tactics that see the heroes through have been a part of Star Wars since Star Wars (hey, let's just watch as our attack runs get picked off one by one). Strange planets that seem ill-fitting and deadly? Very Star Wars, too. (while that is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, it is a kid's show after all, so one has to set expectations accordingly)
More Hera is good, I like the character. Preview of the next episode looks like it will be Sabine-centric with a sprinkle of Mandalore and Bounty Hunting to boot - also good.
Also I think Quarrie is an utterly horrible name for a Mon Calamari character. It sounds like a derogatory nickname for Quarrens to me.
Your point is fair, but let's be honest: naming an aquatic species Mon Calamari did set the bar pretty low ... ![]()
Your point is fair, but let's be honest: naming an aquatic species Mon Calamari did set the bar pretty low ...
Man that name for them has bugged me for so long (that and calling the rabbit species the Lepp or what ever they are called). A long time ago I decided to run with the alternate planet name of Mon Dac and apply it to the species and system/sector too, My star wars universe does not have a species of Italian appetizers running round falling into traps
.
Robot Chicken: Curse words ahead.
Yeah, you always have to be careful about ordering the Admiral Akbar special...
Star Wars has long placed people into roles they shouldn't qualify to hold. General Solo and General Calrissian being two grew examples, but even the "every Jedi is a Commander or General" is another.And yet that's exactly what she's in charge of now~Hera's recklessness and arrogance cost the rebellion men and machinery that it can't afford to lose.
I for one find her strategy of "Nah, just keep going at full speed with no change of course or attempting to abort," and her later plan of "We'll try the exact same thing, but with TWO ships," incredibly hilarious.
She may be a great pilot, but I don't know how she could be in charge of any sort of situations that may require a battle.
I agree with your point on the whole, but I will point out that the Jedi owned the clone army. It was bought and paid for by them so it makes a kind of sense for some of them (far from all, btw) to be put in charge of taking battalions of it here, there and everywhere and giving it orders and objectives. Also, I think TCW series should be given credit for it nowhere being suggested that the Jedi self-appointing themselves as generals was in any way a good idea. Anakin seemed to be one of the only ones that had any real talent for military leadership at all. Obi Wan was good at the political / diplomatic manoeuvring and seemed to at least work hard at trying to organize the war effort well. The rest of the Jedi seemed to do more harm than good. I personally put down the Jedi's incompetent leadership as one more masterstroke of Palpatine's fifteen step program to discrediting the Jedi.
Headcannon to explain Calrissian and Solo's generalships if useful to justify? It was a way to keep them out of the way of actual hands-on military operations. Maybe something like this occurred:
Han: "Hey, we're captains in charge of these soldiers. We should give them orders or something."
Calrissian: "Yeah, we got to be seen to be doing something. Hey, lieutenant, go and attack that enemy position."
several dozen dead rebel soldiers later
Leia: "Guys, we uh, really appreciate your efforts and decided to make you generals. Your role is going to be more, ah, strategic from here on."
Calrissian (quietly, to Han): "Pssst! I can't make head nor tail of this big board. What are all these little triangles?"
Han (quietly): No idea, man. Just act casual.
Calrissian: "Major? Uh, good luck out there today. Uh, fight well."
Rebel officer: "Very good sir."
^that
The clone army was secretly bought by the Republic with the intermediary of a Jedi and paid by the InterGalactic Banking Clan.
Edited by vilainn6
Star Wars has long placed people into roles they shouldn't qualify to hold. General Solo and General Calrissian being two grew examples, but even the "every Jedi is a Commander or General" is another.
And yet that's exactly what she's in charge of now~
Hera's recklessness and arrogance cost the rebellion men and machinery that it can't afford to lose.
I for one find her strategy of "Nah, just keep going at full speed with no change of course or attempting to abort," and her later plan of "We'll try the exact same thing, but with TWO ships," incredibly hilarious.
She may be a great pilot, but I don't know how she could be in charge of any sort of situations that may require a battle.
I agree with your point on the whole, but I will point out that the Jedi owned the clone army. It was bought and paid for by them so it makes a kind of sense for some of them (far from all, btw) to be put in charge of taking battalions of it here, there and everywhere and giving it orders and objectives. Also, I think TCW series should be given credit for it nowhere being suggested that the Jedi self-appointing themselves as generals was in any way a good idea. Anakin seemed to be one of the only ones that had any real talent for military leadership at all. Obi Wan was good at the political / diplomatic manoeuvring and seemed to at least work hard at trying to organize the war effort well. The rest of the Jedi seemed to do more harm than good. I personally put down the Jedi's incompetent leadership as one more masterstroke of Palpatine's fifteen step program to discrediting the Jedi.
Headcannon to explain Calrissian and Solo's generalships if useful to justify? It was a way to keep them out of the way of actual hands-on military operations. Maybe something like this occurred:
Han: "Hey, we're captains in charge of these soldiers. We should give them orders or something."
Calrissian: "Yeah, we got to be seen to be doing something. Hey, lieutenant, go and attack that enemy position."
several dozen dead rebel soldiers later
Leia: "Guys, we uh, really appreciate your efforts and decided to make you generals. Your role is going to be more, ah, strategic from here on."
Calrissian (quietly, to Han): "Pssst! I can't make head nor tail of this big board. What are all these little triangles?"
Han (quietly): No idea, man. Just act casual.
Calrissian: "Major? Uh, good luck out there today. Uh, fight well."
Rebel officer: "Very good sir."
In all fairness Ham and Lando did much better then portrayed in the above. Of course in Legends they both had operational planning and combat command experience as part of either rebel or non-rebel outlaw operations or aiding local defense forces. Whether they will have any experience like that in canon pre-Endor remains to be seen but Lando will still have Tanaab which will hopefully be more of him commanding a force in battle and less a slightly edited Home Alone in Space fight then in Legends.
The clone army was secretly bought by the Republic with the intermediary of a Jedi and paid by the InterGalactic Banking Clan.
Well, from a certain point of view.
I'm not sure it's ever stated in canon where the fund for the original clone order to the Kaminoans actually came from. A plausible source would be either Count Dooku's wealth or some hidden resource of Palpatine's. It could also be diverted Republic funds as you say. Is there a definite source you have? Later purchases certainly were funded openly by the Republic because we see votes on it in TCW.
What I think is the version thought correct by most (including senators, public, most Jedi initially) is this:
- A Jedi called Sifo Diass (spelling?) commissioned a clone army. Depending on who you ask and at what point in time line, this was either because Sifoo had some Jedi foresight (what the council probably believed initially, thus even further inclining them to make use of their unexpected "gift") or because the Jedi were plotting some coup against the senate (what the public probably ends up believing when Palpatine assumes control).
- The Jedi use their private army to try and hold the Republic together / oppress separatists who just want self-rule, depending on which side you take. Or the post-Palpatine the view by many would be the Jedi use their private army to increase military control and influence (never mind that the actual result is devastatingly counter-productive to that aim).
- The Republic "buys in" to the clone army voting for increased funding for it, more troops, et al. as the war goes on.
What I think the real sequence is (open to debate), is more like this:
- The Kaminoans are approached by someone claiming to be a Jedi Master. Possibly Count Dooku who as an actual Jedi Master / Ex-Jedi Master (timeline unclear) has little trouble pulling this off. The real Master Seefu Deass (really should look up that spelling) is killed around this time. His remains are later found in some of the worst episodes of TCW tv series ever recorded.
- Initial payments for the army are provided by one of:
- The newly appointed Supreme Chancellor Palpatine secretly diverts funds to the Kaminoans. Only the uppermost parts of the Kaminoan government are aware that their customers are NOT in fact the Jedi (evidenced by the collusion between Sidious and Kaminoan elites in Season 6 of TCW). The Kaminoan prime minister may or may not know who their real customer is but appears to at least have some idea of what's really going on. This is my favoured theory because it fits well with what we see in Season 6 of TCW.
- Count Dooku funds the programme from his personal wealth.
- Count Dooku funds the programme with real Jedi funds through abusing his inner knowledge of their workings somehow (no particular evidence for this but is a possibility).
- An inner cabal of Banking Clan, Trade Federation and Kaminoan upper government fund it. This is supported by episodes in TCW where a group of such representatives collude to murder another senator and ensure the war continues. What we don't know is if this cabal were in from the start and architects of it, or merely opportunists. This is my other favourite theory, again because it is supported by what we see in TCW and because both the Banking Clan and the Trade Federation have the resources and motive to pull this off. It's also not incompatible with theory number one, simply replacing republic funds with the cabal's funds and Palpatine the mastermind behind it either way.
- The Jedi, at every stage, do what they think is a minor compromise of their values for a laudable goal. So for example, the attack on Genosis. If they do this, whilst it compromises their beliefs, they can catch the droid army (they think) whilst it is contained on a single planet, unlaunched, defenceless. One of their own (Seeffoo Dieass) has seemingly foreseen this and given them the tool they need to do this. So they attack. They think that they are heading off a larger war that would spread across many worlds. In fact, what they do, is begin it. Score one for Palpatine in his discrediting of the Jedi and setting them up as patsies. Several years later when the Republic is on the verge of bankruptcy and people are sickened with war, he can point to the Jedi and say: "they fired the first shots, they closed the door to diplomacy, they plunged us into war." In fact, he wont even need to - people will do that for themselves.
- The Jedi are keepers of the peace, not soldiers. Yet at this point, they own an army! Palpatine could intervene here and assist the Jedi, lend them military guidance, that sort of thing. But he does not. He doesn't want victory. Instead, he lets the Jedi have as much rope as they want knowing full well that they will hang themselves with it. Palpatine knows that what the Jedi counsel has in spades, is hubris. The masters may debate whether or not they should do something, but at no point do they ever doubt whether they can. To a Jedi, they naturally assume that they are the best leaders / tacticians / diplomats / puppy-savers. It never for a moment occurs to any of them to question whether they are the best suited to be generals of an army. They are Jedi! OF COURSE THEY ARE BEST SUITED! In fact, they are middling generals and their efforts only help mire the Republic in war even further.
- Worse, the Jedi are consumed by fear. Despite all their practice and ethos, they never face up to the fact that they are deeply motivated by one overpowering fear - that of failure. The thing that runs through every member of the Jedi counsel's mind, is the same: "I'm not going to the be one that let a thousand years of republic fall." They cannot accept defeat and they cannot accept that what they have done so far was a terrible mistake. Yet the tighter they grasp for victory, the more peace slips through their fingers. Fear has become their master, fear of failure. And they don't know how to stop it. Of course the only way they can is to admit that they don't know how, to accept that they can fail. But the galaxy looks to them! They are Jedi! Are they not the best and wisest? So they drive themselves on, making things worse and worse. The galaxy is turning and their influence waning, but they wont accept it. Remember Galadriel's test in LotR when she decides if she will take the ring for herself or remain Galadrial and be diminished? The Jedi - they fail that test.
- Meanwhile, with the Jedi distracted and consumed by the war, their attention to smaller things at home has faltered. During this time, Palpatine consolidates his power over the courts, the other senators, law enforcement, intelligence agencies, broadcasting... Our historical comparison for Palpatine is not Hitler, but Stalin. Stalin was general secretary of the Communist Party. There was nothing he didn't get his fingers into. Palpatine similarly is tirelessly spreading a web of corruption unopposed by the spiritual leaders of the Republic who are busy fighting a war that has ever greater effects on the general populace who grow to hate those that propagate it.
- Finally, after years of crippling warfare and the Jedi brought to the point of being almost fatally discredited in the eyes of the people, the war must be brought to its conclusion. Palpatine must let / cause the war to come to an end so that he can assume control of a united Empire. But this is also a chance for the Jedi to finally claim some minor justification for the war. He cannot allow his victory to also be the Jedi's. It is at this point that he deliberately reveals himself as a Sith Lord to the Jedi. This is the Jedi's final chance to accept defeat and reclaim some of what they have lost. But they turn away from that choice. They are backed into a corner, their enemy has outplayed them at every stage. Mace Windu and a handful of other Jedi go to battle Sidious. In doing so, they give Sidious the final piece he wants as the Jedi complete their fall into usurpers, opposers of democracy and would-be king makers. And one of their own, seeing his order betray everything he has been told it stands for, and attempt to kill without reason his friend and the only one who can save his wife, turns on them.
- Most of the active Jedi in the field are despatched by "brave clone soldiers still loyal to the Chancellor". And it is not the Jedi who finally capture the Separatist leaders on Mustaffa bringing the war to an end, but an agent of Palpatine (Palpatine of course knowing where they were all along).
- And on a side-note, Anakin having joined Palpatine knows what must be done. He is sick of war, of fighting (and of sand). He only wants peace, at any cost. Whilst most of the counsel are dead, that temple is still, effectively, a terrorist training camp and every one of those within a future threat to peace and the new order. There is only one way to have peace, at last, in the galaxy. And so Anakin, a counsel member and insider to the temple, leads the clone soldiers into the massive structure and oversees the eradication of the Jedi.
I've said it before from time to time, but I'll say it again. For a movie about laser swords and spaceships writ large in giant brush strokes, the over-arching plot has a shocking amount of depth and sophistication. It actually works exceedingly well. And I give a fair portion of the credit for that to Dave Filoni who took the overall idea and filled out a lot of the inner details and subtleties of it. Impressive, most impressive.
I forgot when I wrote my comment thart the Dark Plageuis novel is no longer considered canon. but if you still want to believe what Jame Luceno wrote, it is Hego Damask (Palpatine sith master) that manipulate Sifo Dyas to pass a command to the Kaminoan. Damask, who was a big industrial, even provide the funding throught the InterGalactic Banking Clan.
Since he and Palpatine were plotting to destabilize the Republic by causing a war, they needed both side to have an army and since the republic at that moment didnt have a united military force (the Republic was using private forces I think at that moment), Damask needed someone and a delusionned Jedi Master like Sifo Dyas seemed a good choice.
As for the Jedi leading the clone army, I think it was more a marketing reason. What the better way to reassure the citizens of the Republic about victory that putting mystic warriors in charge of a badass army of killing machines? Plus it serve Palpatine's purpose of discrediting the Order by putting them in situations where their legendary morality will be hard to maintain.
Edited by vilainn6Was there an episode last night? I didn't see anything listed in my usual sources (and I was too busy to look - Lego Dimensions dominated my entire evening).
Was there an episode last night? I didn't see anything listed in my usual sources (and I was too busy to look - Lego Dimensions dominated my entire evening).
Yes. There was a Sabine-focused episode named "Blood Sisters".
EDIT: My opinion on the episode (one very, very minor spoiler) -
I personally didn't find it that good. A bit weak, and I had expected to enjoy learning more about Sabine but ultimately we learn next to nothng. The highlight for me was Ezra expounding to Sabine on, well, Sabine. ![]()
I like the new ship - the Shadow Caster. Looks very strongly influenced by the Havoc. Actually this might have been foreshadowed by the mention of Havoc Base. With the Shantipole thing last ep, this wouldn't surprise me at all ![]()
I liked that episode. I did expect more of Sabine's background, but that was based on the trailer for the season. It seems there is more to come, which is good.
Sabine is competent and crafty and has her own thing. I really like how the female crew members are presented.
I like the new ship - the Shadow Caster. Looks very strongly influenced by the Havoc. Actually this might have been foreshadowed by the mention of Havoc Base. With the Shantipole thing last ep, this wouldn't surprise me at all
Perhaps.
But looked more like a Jem'Hadar attack ship (from ST:DS9) to me. With a cockpit on top.
As for Season 2? *sigh* Still not a fan.
Granted, there have been some things I've really liked: Williams' score is no longer being cut up and (horribly mis)used as incidental music; we have original music! ... the episodes with the clone renegades showed a great deal of originality ... the characters look like they're about to start revealing their backgrounds ... travels to new and different planets ... the inclusion of Ahsoka Tano. However, the writing still doesn't match up to the brilliance of The Clone Wars; Rebels is still very much targeted toward a much younger audience. And I still hate all of the gimmicky weapons, equipment, and starships (a hyperdrive on that little box with wings?!?)...
Anyway, continuing to cross my fingers each week. And, hey, I'm still watching at least. Ha.
Edited by Harlock999That "little box with wings" is larger then an A-Wing and slightly larger then an N-1 so where does this idea that it is too small for a hyperdrive come from?
That "little box with wings" is larger then an A-Wing and slightly larger then an N-1 so where does this idea that it is too small for a hyperdrive come from?
Based on what we've seen on the show, it cannot be larger than an A-Wing. At best, it would be somewhat comparable in size.
The idea that a hyperdrive makes no sense comes from the fact that the Phantom is quite literally a box with wings. It has a forward cockpit and a rear open section with a large door in the back. The engine space is absolutely minimal. (Plus, it has an astromech socket, which takes up even more space.) Now, compare this to an A-wing with a small one-person cockpit and two large engines running half the length of the ship. The fact a hyperdrive could be fitted to Phantom becomes ludicrous.
X-Wings, Y-Wings, B-Wings, A-Wings, and Z-95s all have large "engine sections" that can house small hyperdrives. Contrast this to the TIEs and Jedi starfighters. I mean, just look at Anakin's hyperdrive modifications on his Azure Angel.
I don't think my surprise should be seen as unreasonable.
Yeah, you always have to be careful about ordering the Admiral Akbar special...
It's a trap.
Legends has plenty of hyperdrive modded TIEs, or hyperdive equipped TIE models or TIE based uglies, including one that is basically a TIE ball with an X-Wing's wings but still has a hyperdrive.
Hyperdrives may vary in size based on the size of the ship but its pretty clear in both Legends and canon that fighter scale hyperdrives aren't very big.