58 minutes ago, SithArissa said:

Its an ASTRONOMICAL chance (challenge for @Absol197 ) of it happening but if the species evolved with the same ATCG base pair proteins AND had exactly 46 chromosomes made from those pairs, you would actually have a viable Human/Twi'lek hybrid who could reproduce and would have no (Barring abnormalities that we cant predict due to genome compatibility) inherent problems being born. Technically you can make a human/ape hybrid it just will be sterile and have problems with excess genome pairs. We can already see this in the Tiger/Lion hybrids Ligers/Tigons (Interestingly they actually show greater growth than either true species according to the wiki). So given the random things that often happen in Star Wars with stuff being destined to happen its psudo-scientifically possible.

I find your argument illogical in within this science fiction context

15 minutes ago, Andreievitch said:

I find your argument illogical in within this science fiction context

Best. Wookiee. Ever.

1 hour ago, nameless ronin said:

Beastiality happens in real life. And while people share more DNA with say, sheep than with Twi’lek sex with the latter seems a more alluring prospect than with the former for most people. We can recognize ourselves in near-humanoids (or we could if near-humanoids were a thing, you know what I mean). Heck, we could probably recognize more of ourselves in pretty much any sentient species far enough evolved that we can communicate with them directly than in sheep. Near-humans also have body traits we find sexually attractive in humans: I think Twi’lek boobs are more of a turn-on than those of a sow (even if a sow has more of them), for instance. Near-humans kiss like we do. We can look into their eyes and they (often, not always) are reminiscent of human eyes. Their general body shape is similar to ours. They have hands we can hold. If we close our eyes, we might not even be able to tell the difference. Yet having a common ancestor literally millions of years ago should trump that?

While bestiality certainly happens in real life, it's generally not celebrated with weddings, ala Star Trek.

Seriously, though - I was just making an idle comment about how until relatively recently Star Wars had avoided the whole interspecies thing, while Star Trek had embraced it since around the time I was born.

For the record, I always thought Deanna Troi was hot, and I absolutely have a crush on Hera Syndulla.

5 hours ago, Daronil said:

There was an episode of "The Clone Wars" that dealt with a clone that had gone off the reservation and settled down with a Twi'lek partner, and they had kids. I was a bit surprised by that, because up until then, with regard to interspecies relationships, Star Wars* was pretty much directly opposed to Star Trek, but that TCW episode canonised the idea that it was possible.

Personally, I've always found the whole interspecies thing a bit...off colour? I mean, I'm more closely related to a jellyfish than I am to a Betazoid...

* - with the exception of things like Jabba's thing for Twi'lek dancers, but that's shown as a weird fetish rather than normalised.

Just to clarify, the children were not the Clone Trooper's, they were too old to be his considering he wouldn't have been deployed at the time of conception, meaning he was still training on Kamino and such. He was their adoptive father. They were still half-human though.

Also, is Jacen/Jason (not sure how they spell it) the first child in star wars canon to come about from two people who aren't legally married? Just a random thought.

Forgot to post my thoughts on the finale!

It was great. A lot of catharsis there, bringing in all of their friends and allies from all through the series' run to take on their most dangerous mission yet. I had figured there would be a "to be continued" vibe at the end. Bringing things full-circle back to Ezra's adopted home (the abandoned comm tower) from the first episode of season 1 was pretty nice. Overall I'm pretty impressed, though I kind of expected a higher body count, they went with the "everyone was off doing another thing during the GCW era because the galaxy is massive and they accomplished their mission." Which is fine, it means there's other Jedi throughout the OT that can be used for fun sessions in my GCW era game.

Funny, I had brought in almost every one of the old allies and villains and side characters from one of my campaigns on the final session to do a similar "back where it all began" thing, even had the final conflict take place on Nar Shaddaa, the planet everything started on.

My wife didn't watch when it aired (she still had last week's to watch). She stayed home from work sick today, though. And at one point, I got a text saying, "Freaking Hondo made me tear up!" (near the beginning when he dropped the Captain Jack Sparrow act and said, "For that boy, there is nothing I would not do.")

One thing I really liked was how Zeb's player clearly bought a level of Dedication to max out Zeb's Brawn to 6 and then made good use of it throughout the episodes.

17 minutes ago, mcellis said:

One thing I really liked was how Zeb's player clearly bought a level of Dedication to max out Zeb's Brawn to 6 and then made good use of it throughout the episodes.

Burly talent probably helps too. Dude straight up used a blaster turret like a tommy gun.

To me the kiddo suggests that Twi'leks and Humans are close enough despite the phenotypical differences. Humans have been out there in space for a long time and who knows what the near-humans of Ryloth were in their original evolution. From a storytelling point of view this was a touching way to say that their love lives on and that the differences of people aren't barriers to family, the theme of the show.

11 hours ago, Bojanglez said:

Not taking that bet. Thrawn is too popular a property for them to have just done away with him like this.

He will be back!

You can't kill a character like Thrawn, the bad guy fan club will just say he killed the sarlacc or got robot legs.

Weirdly enough, even though they're the characters I give the least damned about, Zeb easing Kallus' conscience in their ending might have been the most feels this show has given me. They had both been struggling for relevance (Zeb in particular) since their arcs were pretty much wrapped a good while ago. That small scene at the end was a worthy payoff they both needed and heartwarming as all ****. Brought a literal tear to my eye.

5 hours ago, Archlyte said:

You can't kill a character like Thrawn, the bad guy fan club will just say he killed the sarlacc or got robot legs.

Dave Filoni has said in at least a couple of interviews that as far as he's concerned, both Ezra and Thrawn survived, but he didn't want to short-change the potential story by cramming the "what happened" into what was in effect a post-credits sequence, and is instead content (for the moment at least) to leave that story of where they wound up to another.

Though I do commend him for finding a way to explain why one of the Empire's foremost military minds was MIA during the GCW and how Yoda's line about Luke being "the last of the Jedi" could be true (Kanan's dead, Ahsoka is not a Jedi, and Ezra is now MIA) without killing off the show's primary protagonist.

I've been rewatching some clips and its truly the most fitting finale Rebels could have.

Some really high, incredible moments in a majority of meh moments to WTF?

The scene that epitomizes this most to me are the royal guards suspending Ezra with their force sticks for elite stormtroopers, Thrawn's very best, to rush in and not hit a static target, then Ezra eliminates the Emperor's most elite bodyguards in seconds.

True awesomeness that descends into pure stupidity.

~

I would be fine with the space whales if the Empire killed some of them and they were damaged by scraping their heads and bodies alongside the hull.

If there was some tension the whales may actually fail.

If the whales were hurt but kept pressing forward.

But there wasn't.

The whales, organic beings, that have been killed fairly easily for millennia, millennia, with no damage to themselves, swept the most powerful ships in the galaxy.

Show me scars.

Show me wounds.

Show me some sacrifice.

Show me that these are organic creatures, that while tough are still mortal.

That's enticing drama.

If they suffered but kept going shows me the deep connection in the force between them and Ezra. The deep love they feel for Ezra.

Details like this go a long way, its what I learned in film school.

We didn't get any of that.

The line Hondo gave "For that boy, I would do anything" is what this finale was. But it didn't mean anything because none of our characters suffered at all.

Its not a matter of death, but no one got scars or serious injuries.

That's my fundamental problem with Rebels.

Adventure Time, Regular Show, and many other contemporary kid shows of Rebels, handles struggle both physical and mental so much better in a way that kids need to see as they develop and that adults can appreciate.

7 minutes ago, Forresto said:

Adventure Time, Regular Show, and many other contemporary kid shows of Rebels, handles struggle both physical and mental so much better in a way that kids need to see as they develop and that adults can appreciate.

Oddly enough, I find the two shows you cite as exemplars of “contemporary kid shows” to be thoroughly unwatchable, filled with random, annoying nonsense and no depth of character.

With them, as with Rebels, mileage obviously varies.

1 minute ago, Nytwyng said:

Oddly enough, I find the two shows you cite as exemplars of “contemporary kid shows” to be thoroughly unwatchable, filled with random, annoying nonsense and no depth of character.

With them, as with Rebels, mileage obviously varies.

Oh I can get why someone could see them as unwatchable.

However the way that the writers of Adventure Time show the emotional and mental development of its protagonist and characters is better then even many adult shows.

The very presentation of the show is a by product of Finn growing up. It started off as very juvenile but as Finn got older the world became more and more serious in tone, as his perspective matured. Consequences became more real as Finn grew to better understand what the consequences of his actions are.

Its a coming of age story beneath the veneer of a LSD trip, and its actually done thoughtfully and reflectively, in a way that even made me, an adult, start thinking about real life.

What's funny is that Adventure Time deals with a lot of the themes Rebels attempted to touch on with Ezra, but where Adventure Time got my mental juices working and makes a statement, Rebels left me to work to empathize with Ezra.

Ezra and Finn both started off as jerk kids with no parental supervision and grow to be likable teens/young adults, however Adventure Time did the work that got me to actually like Finn. When I see Ezra, I still see him as the same jerk he was in Season One.

41 minutes ago, Forresto said:

Oh I can get why someone could see them as unwatchable.

However the way that the writers of Adventure Time show the emotional and mental development of its protagonist and characters is better then even many adult shows.

The very presentation of the show is a by product of Finn growing up. It started off as very juvenile but as Finn got older the world became more and more serious in tone, as his perspective matured. Consequences became more real as Finn grew to better understand what the consequences of his actions are.

Its a coming of age story beneath the veneer of a LSD trip, and its actually done thoughtfully and reflectively, in a way that even made me, an adult, start thinking about real life.

What's funny is that Adventure Time deals with a lot of the themes Rebels attempted to touch on with Ezra, but where Adventure Time got my mental juices working and makes a statement, Rebels left me to work to empathize with Ezra.

Ezra and Finn both started off as jerk kids with no parental supervision and grow to be likable teens/young adults, however Adventure Time did the work that got me to actually like Finn. When I see Ezra, I still see him as the same jerk he was in Season One.

You have far more fortitude than I do, to be able to watch that much of Adventure Time. When our son would watch it, I reached a point that I just had to leave the room. It was a joyous day when he didn’t care about it anymore. So, based on my (admittedly limited) exposure to it, I can’t agree with your assessment of the writing/production quality. It was just another example of what seems to have been in vogue for kids’ cartoons of the past decade (five or take): throw random, bizarre nonsense out there, with poor animation, and hope it becomes the Next Big Thing.

Meanwhile, I see the progression in Ezra that you don’t.

Mileage variance.

4 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Dave Filoni has said in at least a couple of interviews that as far as he's concerned, both Ezra and Thrawn survived, but he didn't want to short-change the potential story by cramming the "what happened" into what was in effect a post-credits sequence, and is instead content (for the moment at least) to leave that story of where they wound up to another.

Though I do commend him for finding a way to explain why one of the Empire's foremost military minds was MIA during the GCW and how Yoda's line about Luke being "the last of the Jedi" could be true (Kanan's dead, Ahsoka is not a Jedi, and Ezra is now MIA) without killing off the show's primary protagonist.

I have never enjoyed the Thrawn character until I watched Rebels, but I too feel they did a good job of explaining how he wasn't around for the GCW conflict, so I agree. To me he can be a bit of a super-villain with his powers of prediction that sometimes just make it feel like the writer is pounding you over the head with the fact that Thrawn has read the script ahead of us. I feel they toned this down a bit for the show versus how I remember him from books, and the voice actor was great too. I didn't like a Chiss having pupils though, and kind of wish they had figured out other ways to show his eyeline.

Star Wars is interesting because in this IP the main bad guys are not able to be killed off. They have the Fanfiction Resurrection talent.

8 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

You have far more fortitude than I do, to be able to watch that much of Adventure Time. When our son would watch it, I reached a point that I just had to leave the room. It was a joyous day when he didn’t care about it anymore. So, based on my (admittedly limited) exposure to it, I can’t agree with your assessment of the writing/production quality. It was just another example of what seems to have been in vogue for kids’ cartoons of the past decade (five or take): throw random, bizarre nonsense out there, with poor animation, and hope it becomes the Next Big Thing.

Meanwhile, I see the progression in Ezra that you don’t.

Mileage variance.

Well how much did you watch? Because the first two-three seasons are the nonsense ones. Even as a fan of the show I can't watch those.

No I see what they were doing.

There was an arc for Ezra, absolutely.

I just I never came to like the character of Ezra. Things came too easily for him besides the forced situations they put him into.

When you see a kid slice through legions of Stormtroopers and defeat some of those most elite agents in the Empire over and over again its hard to see him as nothing more then a precocious kid who doesn't actually struggle with any challenge. He overcomes everything.

To me he was always the guy in every FPS multiplayer game who gave himself the god cheat and mows everyone down.

Its why I dislike Superman as a character as opposed to Batman.

12 hours ago, GroggyGolem said:

Burly talent probably helps too. Dude straight up used a blaster turret like a tommy gun.

It was a shame when he rolled that Despair and ran out of ammo in downing that gunship.

54 minutes ago, Forresto said:

Well how much did you watch? Because the first two-three seasons are the nonsense ones. Even as a fan of the show I can't watch those.

No I see what they were doing.

There was an arc for Ezra, absolutely.

I just I never came to like the character of Ezra. Things came too easily for him besides the forced situations they put him into.

When you see a kid slice through legions of Stormtroopers and defeat some of those most elite agents in the Empire over and over again its hard to see him as nothing more then a precocious kid who doesn't actually struggle with any challenge. He overcomes everything.

To me he was always the guy in every FPS multiplayer game who gave himself the god cheat and mows everyone down.

Its why I dislike Superman as a character as opposed to Batman.

His struggle was always more emotional than physical, as is often the case when representing characters with fantastical abilities. Especially true in the case of Jedi, who are superhuman compared to the rest of the galaxy, but struggle with deep emotions that can lead to a corruption of body and soul (the dark side). Luke really never struggled against the majority of anything put in his path, his conflict was always in the morality of the decisions he had to make. This is even represented in the Clone Wars, in which Ahsoka, a newly appointed Padawan, is more than capable of handling situations herself but struggles with being a leader, letting go of people that die and having insight to make the right decisions instead of the quick and easy decisions.

19 hours ago, ExileofEnya said:

Personally I'm more concerned about how this kid is gonna turn out and where he is going to eventually fall on the morality scale when he grows up.

I mean, Jacen isn't exactly a name with a strong light side history in Star Wars.

Don’t worry he’s not one of Leia’s kids.

3 hours ago, GroggyGolem said:

His struggle was always more emotional than physical, as is often the case when representing characters with fantastical abilities. Especially true in the case of Jedi, who are superhuman compared to the rest of the galaxy, but struggle with deep emotions that can lead to a corruption of body and soul (the dark side). Luke really never struggled against the majority of anything put in his path, his conflict was always in the morality of the decisions he had to make. This is even represented in the Clone Wars, in which Ahsoka, a newly appointed Padawan, is more than capable of handling situations herself but struggles with being a leader, letting go of people that die and having insight to make the right decisions instead of the quick and easy decisions.

While I didn't dislike Ezra and was moved by his story, I also don't like the way they have this giant division between any Force Sensitive character and everybody else. Ezra was so powerful in the last few seasons that I was sure he was gonna be banished or dead by the times of the original movies. I guess nobody likes the idea of taking a while to get used to being able to even connect with the Force, so the lightsabers and Force Domination had to be in the mix pronto.

When it comes to main characters it's like the Force has two settings: it's either all the way on, or all the way off.

I really think Luke was a bit different, or at least I would hope he was. Having everyone's nascent force powers make you as successful as him suggests that he wasn't all that special.

2 hours ago, Eoen said:

Don’t worry he’s not one of Leia’s kids.

But it is a hat tip to the EU...a boy named Jacen, born to a hot shot pilot and one who is force sensitive.

9 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Though I do commend him for finding a way to explain why one of the Empire's foremost military minds was MIA during the GCW and how Yoda's line about Luke being "the last of the Jedi" could be true (Kanan's dead, Ahsoka is not a Jedi, and Ezra is now MIA) without killing off the show's primary protagonist.

Was Ezra technically a Jedi? He was a Padawan. Are Padawan's Jedi? Did he graduate? For example, Kanan was officially made a Jedi in the temple by the Grand Inquisitor.

Personally I think you are thinking too hard on Hera; she clearly had a dose of the midacholorians*! Kanan died and the force in it's twisted idea of love gave sight to a dying man and a child to the recently deprived so that part of Kanan would always live on as a reward for their part in in whatever great plan that mysterious indescribable and frequently debated mess that is the force is concocting, or not planning. Difficult to tell when you can't ask it questions. Given that they couldn't even confess to each other properly, doesn't make a great deal of sense any other way. XD


*I recognise that the microscopical bacteria is merely an indication of the force, not the force, but I still find the comparison useful. That and I love bringing up that term around my group to make them salty.


Re: Erza and the one Jedi: It's already established that Yoda lied to Luke on several occasions to get him motivated to do what he had to do. He said that Luke was the only hope because he didn't want him getting any disillusion in the way of his task; Luke had to figure out by himself that Leia was his sister. So I don't think Yoda even really intended to indicate Luke was the only potential/existing Jedi given the new information; just Luke was the only man who could do what they needed him to do. He was the only one who could reach the dragon's heart. Hence while all the technicalities are amusing, it's getting needlessly technical on what was a lie in the first place.

Plus from a certain sense Yoda was right in a way he probably didn't/did intend; only Luke could defeat Vader because he cared for his father, after watching her planet go up I highly doubt Leia had any compassion in her heart for Vader.

In regards to Luke's advancement; that's because the special effects in star wars were good for it's time. If they remade episode 5-6 tomorrow, we probably would have seen a very different situation. Besides, he took on Jabba's guards with everyone watching him and he wasn't even injuried. It's indicated that by episode 6 he's pretty good.