Oh, no, I think you're right. That's common, too, among authoritarians; keep the underlings at each other's throats, so they aren't coming at you. Or worse: teaming up to come at you.

But pretty much everyone seems to see the value in having multiple spy agencies.

Hm. This makes me wonder if we'll ever see an outright coup attempt on screen. Rebels is probably the wrong place for it, but surely it won't be the last SW show.

For what it's worth, here's what the Rogue One Ultimate Visual Guide has to say about the death troopers:

Encased in specialized stormtrooper armor that shines with an ominous gleam, the death troopers comprise an elite unit created to defend the most important operations and operatives within the Imperial military hierarchy. Recruited by Imperial Intelligence, these troopers form protection squadrons of bodyguards and enforcers for the leadership of the Tarkin Initiative and key fleet officials.

So, II may do the recruiting, but they are assigned to important members of the Imperial military, apparently irrespective of branch.

We never saw them before because we never needed to. The Emperor has the Royal Guard, Vader has...himself. Tarkin may have had a contingent, but I don't recall seeing Krennick's while he was on the Death Star, either. (But, verifying that could be an excuse for a viewing once the blu-ray comes out next week. )

Tarkin was also quite confident in the general security of the Death Star, being that he was in the heart of a secret(ish) Imperial installation. The closest we saw him participating in live combat was towards the end of the first season of Rebels, and even then he only stepped out once the fighting was done (this was also a couple years before Rogue One was released, so Death Troopers weren't a thing at the time). Tarkin is very much a "lead from the rear" type of commander, keeping himself out of direct harm as much as possible.

Thrawn, who is willing to lead from the front lines when the situation calls for it, meanwhile was going into an active combat engagement, namely an unsecured enemy base, so it'd make sense that a Grand Admiral would have the best protection the Empire could offer.

Having a squad or two of death troopers would make for a decent climactic 'boss battle' encounter in lieu of pitting the PCs against a single nemesis, seeing as how hard it is to balance that. I like it. Now we just need some stats.

Kanan seemed wary of the Death Troopers.

I've always used that Nazi Germany analogy, too.
Imperial Army = Wehrmacht
Stormtrooper Corps = Waffen-SS
ISB = Gestapo

I guess I would now add "Death Troopers" as the equivalent of the Einsatzgruppen , the death squads of the SS.

Rerun of the first half of the season premiere is on right now.

Bendu just wanting to be left alone is right there in his first scene. While he did call to Kanan, the first thing he said to Kanan was, "Ah, you heard my call. Good. Your imbalance woke me from a deep slumber. Your presence is like a violent storm in this quiet world. "

4 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

Rerun of the first half of the season premiere is on right now.

Bendu just wanting to be left alone is right there in his first scene. While he did call to Kanan, the first thing he said to Kanan was, "Ah, you heard my call. Good. Your imbalance woke me from a deep slumber. Your presence is like a violent storm in this quiet world. "

Fooooooooooooooooor(c)eshadowing.....

1 hour ago, TheMOELANDER said:

a violent storm in this quiet world

Goddammit.

14 hours ago, Blackbird888 said:

Having a squad or two of death troopers would make for a decent climactic 'boss battle' encounter in lieu of pitting the PCs against a single nemesis, seeing as how hard it is to balance that. I like it. Now we just need some stats.

Of the suggestions that cropped up over in the AoR forum, taking a typical minion Stormtrooper squad and give them a level of Adversary was the one I liked the most.

11 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

Rerun of the first half of the season premiere is on right now.

Bendu just wanting to be left alone is right there in his first scene. While he did call to Kanan, the first thing he said to Kanan was, "Ah, you heard my call. Good. Your imbalance woke me from a deep slumber. Your presence is like a violent storm in this quiet world. "

That and his comments about the light and the dark being the Ashla and Bogan remind me of the Force Storms of Tython in Legends.

Also, I think I realized why I was let down by the direction they took his character. Kanan made a big deal about it when he realized what the Bendu was, treating him with a large amount of respect and kind of placing himself as a student of Bendu's, looking for answers. Bendu only really showed him that he needed to work through his emotions rather than letting them fester. Kanan still put a lot of respect towards Bendu, you can even see it when he argues with him at the season finale, that Kanan was getting disappointed with this Force user that is choosing inaction over helping others. The show made a big point about this guy being a wise Force user and possibly having answers about things, being their sort of Yoda figure since they can't talk to Yoda. Then it turns out this guy doesn't even practice what he preaches & he's willing to attack people in need of help because he wants to be left alone. Probably the most selfish thing I've seen a non-villain character do in Rebels. Seems very much like something a Dark Sider would do and not a guy "in the middle".

10/10 Bendu was secretly a creature made of Sith Alchemy, slowly corrupting the minds of Ezra & Kanan with his talk of "balance". He'd have them believe that it's okay to learn from a Sith Holocron & in a way, aided Maul in poisoning Ezra's mind with the Holocrons.

10 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

That and his comments about the light and the dark being the Ashla and Bogan remind me of the Force Storms of Tython in Legends.

Also, I think I realized why I was let down by the direction they took his character. Kanan made a big deal about it when he realized what the Bendu was, treating him with a large amount of respect and kind of placing himself as a student of Bendu's, looking for answers. Bendu only really showed him that he needed to work through his emotions rather than letting them fester. Kanan still put a lot of respect towards Bendu, you can even see it when he argues with him at the season finale, that Kanan was getting disappointed with this Force user that is choosing inaction over helping others. The show made a big point about this guy being a wise Force user and possibly having answers about things, being their sort of Yoda figure since they can't talk to Yoda. Then it turns out this guy doesn't even practice what he preaches & he's willing to attack people in need of help because he wants to be left alone. Probably the most selfish thing I've seen a non-villain character do in Rebels. Seems very much like something a Dark Sider would do and not a guy "in the middle".

10/10 Bendu was secretly a creature made of Sith Alchemy, slowly corrupting the minds of Ezra & Kanan with his talk of "balance". He'd have them believe that it's okay to learn from a Sith Holocron & in a way, aided Maul in poisoning Ezra's mind with the Holocrons.

That makes at least as much sense as what we were "told" about Bendu.

Like I said, they introduce these "balance" characters and then fail to follow through, falling back on treating Jedi/Sith Light/Dark dogma as basic universal truth, and having the "balance" characters act as one or the other in effect if not in name.

Of course we've seen that the Jedi (or those writing them) also can't seem to decide whether "taking action" is "light" or "dark", with us being told one thing and shown another repeatedly.

Or he could just be a person like everyone else with good moods and bad moods. One day he's all chill and the next day he's all F this S. I just want to sleep off my hangover.

Actually, that's pretty consistent with mythology. Zeus - loving father or non-stop rape machine? Oden - wise and honorable ruler or brawling drunkard? God? Floods the Earth, turns a dude to salt and then gets all lovey-dovey. Kali: goddess of death, sexuality, violence, and motherly love.

Why can't Bendu be any different?

16 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

We never saw them before because we never needed to. The Emperor has the Royal Guard, Vader has...himself. Tarkin may have had a contingent, but I don't recall seeing Krennick's while he was on the Death Star, either.

Honestly, I don't think Vader worries about who is with him. He just takes the nearest squad of troops to help cover his back. He was trained to work with basic clone squads, not super elites. Between that and his own abilities, why bother bringing elites? Unless they were more convenient.

15 minutes ago, Edgookin said:

Honestly, I don't think Vader worries about who is with him. He just takes the nearest squad of troops to help cover his back. He was trained to work with basic clone squads, not super elites. Between that and his own abilities, why bother bringing elites? Unless they were more convenient.

Kinda what I was getting at.

Interesting thought; the empire always struck me as an extreme British empire with fascist overtones to full on nazimpirism. quite fascinating really.

I never saw the Bendu as a particularly friendly guy, he was just there to help because force senstive's are really noisy and in the end he was more akin to a force of nature. He really doesn't care about anything but his own sense of wellbeing. I kinda like the Zeus analogy; aside from the fact his problems didn't start with "don't stick your- too late!"

4 hours ago, LordBritish said:

Interesting thought; the empire always struck me as an extreme British empire with fascist overtones to full on nazimpirism. quite fascinating really.

I never saw the Bendu as a particularly friendly guy, he was just there to help because force senstive's are really noisy and in the end he was more akin to a force of nature. He really doesn't care about anything but his own sense of wellbeing. I kinda like the Zeus analogy; aside from the fact his problems didn't start with "don't stick your- too late!"

Nope. IF you read the book Star Wars: the Magic of Myth , it's explicitly stated that George Lucas patterned the Empire after Nazi Germany. Palpatine's rise to power even mirrors Hitler's. This was deliberate on GL's part.

7 hours ago, Desslok said:

Of the suggestions that cropped up over in the AoR forum, taking a typical minion Stormtrooper squad and give them a level of Adversary was the one I liked the most.

Given that we see them getting gunned down towards the end of Rogue One when faced off with what is probably a modified light repeating blaster, this is probably the best approach to the Death Troopers.

On 27.3.2017 at 4:04 PM, abookfulblockhead said:

Konstantine was definitely not Thrawn's fault. The admiral disobeyed a direct order, and was openly insubordinate when Thrawn ordered him to return to position.

Plus, Konstantine is not part if Thrawn's task force. The troops with the Chimera emblem all seem well-trained and faultlessly loyal. Plus, they've got the audio logs. Konstantine's last words might as well have been "Leeeeeroooooooy Jeeeeenkiiiiiins!"

So why is Thrawn using the guy for such an important task? It is not like Konstantins insubordination came unexpected to anyone. And the second part is: The thrawn of the books would have made clear that Konstantines action during battle would have severe consequences. Thawn never was above simple murder or fear to make people fall in line. The promise to kill every last one of Konstantines family would have been actually rather in character imho … at least if Thrawn assumed that a threat would work. Now Konstantine at the other hand was displayed always as a rather weak character and it seemed rather likely that he would fall in line when threatened.

Someone on board of that interdictor could have just downright killed Konstantine on the spot by Thrawn's Order, just too late to save the ship from Sato's suicide attack.

On 27.3.2017 at 5:50 PM, Vorzakk said:

... by murdering his boss who, according to early drafts of the script, he was planning on killing anyway.

"Join me and I will complete your training. With our combined strength we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy. [snipe] Luke, you can destroy the emperor, he has foreseen this, it is your destiny. Join me and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son." Star Wars - The Empire strikes back

I would say it is literally spelled out in the movie. But it is literally spelled out in the movie as well during the scene that Vader has still good in him. (it is implied that Vader does not lie in this scene)

4 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

"Join me and I will complete your training. With our combined strength we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy. [snipe] Luke, you can destroy the emperor, he has foreseen this, it is your destiny. Join me and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son." Star Wars - The Empire strikes back

I would say it is literally spelled out in the movie. But it is literally spelled out in the movie as well during the scene that Vader has still good in him. (it is implied that Vader does not lie in this scene)

Come to think of it, I don't think Vader ever lies to Luke.

Maaaybe the scene when the two meet on Endor and Vader claims that the name Anakin Skywalker has no meaning for him. I feel like that's even the truth at the moment because it's before Vader has turned back to good.

Interesting. Never thought about it before.

54 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

Maaaybe the scene when the two meet on Endor and Vader claims that the name Anakin Skywalker has no meaning for him.

But how much of that is Vader lying to Luke and how much is Vader lying to himself? I always took that line as more him trying to sell himself on 'Anakin is dead' more than Luke.

5 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

So why is Thrawn using the guy for such an important task? It not like Konstantins insubordination came unexpected to anyone. And the second part is: The thrawn of the books would have made clear that Konstantines action during battle would have severe consequences. Thawn never was above simple murder or fear to make people fall in line. The promise to kill every last one of Konstantines family would have been actually rather in character imho … at least if Thrawn assumed that a threat would work. No Konstantine at the other hand was displayed always as a rather weak character and it seemed rather likely that he would fall in line when threatened.

Someone on board of that interdictor could have just downright killed Konstantine on the spot by Thrawn's Order, just too late to save the ship from Sato's suicide attack.

I wonder how the crew would have reacted to being told that Konstantine was stripped of command and to be summarily executed for gross violation of orders and deserting his post in battle.

56 minutes ago, MaxKilljoy said:

I wonder how the crew would have reacted to being told that Konstantine was stripped of command and to be summarily executed for gross violation of orders and deserting his post in battle.

Now THAT would be interesting. And entirely in keeping with Thrawn's character.