First, it's not the RPG, it's a fictional story as presented through the medium of animation. The game rules have nothing to do with it, and trying to understand what's shown on the screen as if there were underlying RPG rules is only going to generate bad results.

And as usual you are ruining everyone's fun, MaxKilljoy. It's perfectly normal to try and interpret the show actions with the rpg rules to see if we can replicate them. It's been done time and again with star wars movie scenes because it often works perfectly well. In this case it does not because we don't have a Force power to replicate what we see as the show is probably adding something new to the canonic Force abilities.

As for the Vilain6 interpretation i don't agree because it seems, from Ezra's actions mimicking the movements that he is actually mind controlling the pilot rather than making him see things, so i believe this is a new dark side power that's being introduced.

I also found extremely interesting the introduction of the creature that follows the way of the Bendu, whatever it is. I hope we'll discover more about it.

First, it's not the RPG, it's a fictional story as presented through the medium of animation. The game rules have nothing to do with it

But the question was "If this scene happened in your game, what would you assign for conflict?" - so yeah, in that context game rules had everything to do with it.

I feel like compelling someone to murder their friends is different from cutting those people down with a lightsaber. I think the "lighter" option would have been to compel the walker pilot to power down, or even non-catastrophically sabotage his own vehicle. It also undermines an enemy's ability to choose to stop fighting. And I think that's a pretty fundamental difference. If your opponents intend to kill you, then they have chosen to accept the risk that they themselves may be killed in battle. But they also have the free will to run away if they realize they're overmatched. And a Jedi of all people should respect when an enemy wishes to stop fighting.

Once you start undermining your enemies' free will, you're actually removing their ability to choose a non-violent resolution. I think the need to respect that choice is a pretty significant difference between the two scenarios.

If you look at the scene from the game point of you and what the description of Influence said, Ezra didn't puppet the pilote. He makes him believe his enemies were the white guys at his feet. Unfortunetly, it is really hard to show this with images so the animators decided that Ezra will simply manipulate the actions of the pilote.

So at the end, it is the pilote who shoot. You cannot blame Ezra if that pilote didn't offer a chance to the other stormtroopers to surrender before blasting them. Howerver you can blame Ezra for Making the pilote believe it is ok to move his walker until he fall.

First, it's not the RPG, it's a fictional story as presented through the medium of animation. The game rules have nothing to do with it, and trying to understand what's shown on the screen as if there were underlying RPG rules is only going to generate bad results.

Second, you appear to be assuming facts not in evidence (that Ezra did something other than what is shown on the screen).

First, my comment was made in fonction of Desslok original question "if you are the Gm and this scene is happening at your table how much conflict do you handle" Of course I will compare the show with the game.

Second, The facts are that Ezra manipulate the pilote to do something he wouldn't normally do. For the rest, who cares if I am right or not? The result is the same anyway.

As for the Vilain6 interpretation i don't agree because it seems, from Ezra's actions mimicking the movements that he is actually mind controlling the pilot rather than making him see things, so i believe this is a new dark side power that's being introduced.

Maybe it is a new dark side power but if it is the case I will be disapointed as we already have something that cover this domain.

Since the eventual effect is more or less the same, I would say that what Ezra did was Effect Mind, but dialed up to 11 and liberally sprinkled with dark side.

Very liberally sprinkled with Dark Side.

In fact, I don't think we've ever seen Vader or Palpatine do anything similar.

As bad as instantly wiping out peaceful planets and slaughtering children is, mind-**** with a side of mind-****-induced-suicide is pretty dark.

I mean, I'm normally a "by whatever means necessary" kinda guy - a tool is a tool - but even I have standards.

And... ya know what? I kinda hope Ezra gets it before Rebels ends. Or else he's going to have to have one hell of a redemption to pull off.

Ezra should have mind-raped the CO and ordered the Imps to cease-fire and let the rebels go, instead.

Ezra is Snoke?

/me runs

Ezra is Snoke?/me runs

It's been suggested before.

Then there's the contingent who are suggesting that Benicio Del Toro's Episode VIII character is Ezra....

Just saw the Episode. From what I gathered with Ezra and the AT=PT pilot is the was mind controlling him and bending the pilot to his will. mimicking what the pilot was doing. Deliberate murder IMHO of the Pilot.

But I am so glad the overpowered Phantom is destroyed. Smaller then an A-wing. As fast as a Tie Fighter. Can carry 8 plus the pilot. Droid Socket, a forward turret, and a Dorsal Laser (that can also destroy a TIE Fighter). Good riddance

And the Sith Holocron is now in possession of Bendu (voiced by Tom Baker! *nerdgasum*)... guess that was a writers fiat to avoid any problem with the Ezrea/Kanan relationship

What i did not like.. is how Ezra is able to communicate with Hera with a wrist communicator with zero Delay. Instead we could have had Kanan going "Ezra is in trouble, we need to send the fleet!"

And a promotion lieutenant commander? you mean Ezra was a Lieutenant before? Arg there are so many things wrong with this.

I'm sure a replacement Phantom will come along and add even more cheese to that slice of the pie.

You mean like this: http://makingstarwars.net/2016/09/take-a-look-at-the-new-phantom-from-star-wars-rebels/

What i did not like.. is how Ezra is able to communicate with Hera with a wrist communicator with zero Delay. Instead we could have had Kanan going "Ezra is in trouble, we need to send the fleet!"

And a promotion lieutenant commander? you mean Ezra was a Lieutenant before? Arg there are so many things wrong with this.

I would say that the wrist communicator was being relayed from the phantom's com system. Considering we saw Obiwan send a Holovid Broadcast in realtime from Geonosis to Tatooine in AtoC. I would not consider near instant voice out of the realm of possibilities.

As for the promotion I don't see an issue to much as it has been 6 months in time since the end of SSN 2. I think they did a fine job of establishing that he had been very involved in previous missions and is another example of showing how far he has come since we saw him last. In comparison Luke was promoted to Lieutenant shortly after ANH.

What i did not like.. is how Ezra is able to communicate with Hera with a wrist communicator with zero Delay. Instead we could have had Kanan going "Ezra is in trouble, we need to send the fleet!"

And a promotion lieutenant commander? you mean Ezra was a Lieutenant before? Arg there are so many things wrong with this.

I would say that the wrist communicator was being relayed from the phantom's com system. Considering we saw Obiwan send a Holovid Broadcast in realtime from Geonosis to Tatooine in AtoC. I would not consider near instant voice out of the realm of possibilities.

As for the promotion I don't see an issue to much as it has been 6 months in time since the end of SSN 2. I think they did a fine job of establishing that he had been very involved in previous missions and is another example of showing how far he has come since we saw him last. In comparison Luke was promoted to Lieutenant shortly after ANH.

Lieutenant Commander is a step higher rank then Lieutenant if using US Navy for comparison. Lt. Commander didn't exist in WEG Rebel ranks.

Re-watching the promotion clip we hear, "You will lead this mission as Lieutenant Commander". Then Ezra immediately responds with surprise, "Lieutenant? A promotion?". Huh? So which is it? Lieutenant Commander or Lieutenant? Later in the episode he is again called just, "Lieutenant" more then once. So when he was told he was being promoted, was there supposed to be a comma in there? The voice actor got it wrong? Was it supposed to be, "You will lead this mission as Lieutenant, commander"? The "commander" part was just a general term for being the person in charge during the mission? For example it could have been, "You will command this mission as Lieutenant, leader". That or the script writer or voice actor added "Commander" in error since it's the only time we see it. Either explanation is sloppy.

What i did not like.. is how Ezra is able to communicate with Hera with a wrist communicator with zero Delay. Instead we could have had Kanan going "Ezra is in trouble, we need to send the fleet!"

And a promotion lieutenant commander? you mean Ezra was a Lieutenant before? Arg there are so many things wrong with this.

I would say that the wrist communicator was being relayed from the phantom's com system. Considering we saw Obiwan send a Holovid Broadcast in realtime from Geonosis to Tatooine in AtoC. I would not consider near instant voice out of the realm of possibilities.

As for the promotion I don't see an issue to much as it has been 6 months in time since the end of SSN 2. I think they did a fine job of establishing that he had been very involved in previous missions and is another example of showing how far he has come since we saw him last. In comparison Luke was promoted to Lieutenant shortly after ANH.

Lieutenant Commander is a step higher rank then Lieutenant if using US Navy for comparison. Lt. Commander didn't exist in WEG Rebel ranks.

Re-watching the promotion clip we hear, "You will lead this mission as Lieutenant Commander". Then Ezra immediately responds with surprise, "Lieutenant? A promotion?". Huh? So which is it? Lieutenant Commander or Lieutenant? Later in the episode he is again called just, "Lieutenant" more then once. So when he was told he was being promoted, was there supposed to be a comma in there? The voice actor got it wrong? Was it supposed to be, "You will lead this mission as Lieutenant, commander"? The "commander" part was just a general term for being the person in charge during the mission? For example it could have been, "You will command this mission as Lieutenant, leader". That or the script writer or voice actor added "Commander" in error since it's the only time we see it. Either explanation is sloppy.

And throughout the rest of the episode, the other characters referred to him as "Lieutenant," as well. That was my head-scratcher, as well. I've come to expect better internal consistency from this production team. I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't been deluged with questions about it already.

Missing comma.

What i did not like.. is how Ezra is able to communicate with Hera with a wrist communicator with zero Delay. Instead we could have had Kanan going "Ezra is in trouble, we need to send the fleet!"

And a promotion lieutenant commander? you mean Ezra was a Lieutenant before? Arg there are so many things wrong with this.

I would say that the wrist communicator was being relayed from the phantom's com system. Considering we saw Obiwan send a Holovid Broadcast in realtime from Geonosis to Tatooine in AtoC. I would not consider near instant voice out of the realm of possibilities.

As for the promotion I don't see an issue to much as it has been 6 months in time since the end of SSN 2. I think they did a fine job of establishing that he had been very involved in previous missions and is another example of showing how far he has come since we saw him last. In comparison Luke was promoted to Lieutenant shortly after ANH.

Lieutenant Commander is a step higher rank then Lieutenant if using US Navy for comparison. Lt. Commander didn't exist in WEG Rebel ranks.

Re-watching the promotion clip we hear, "You will lead this mission as Lieutenant Commander". Then Ezra immediately responds with surprise, "Lieutenant? A promotion?". Huh? So which is it? Lieutenant Commander or Lieutenant? Later in the episode he is again called just, "Lieutenant" more then once. So when he was told he was being promoted, was there supposed to be a comma in there? The voice actor got it wrong? Was it supposed to be, "You will lead this mission as Lieutenant, commander"? The "commander" part was just a general term for being the person in charge during the mission? For example it could have been, "You will command this mission as Lieutenant, leader". That or the script writer or voice actor added "Commander" in error since it's the only time we see it. Either explanation is sloppy.

And throughout the rest of the episode, the other characters referred to him as "Lieutenant," as well. That was my head-scratcher, as well. I've come to expect better internal consistency from this production team. I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't been deluged with questions about it already.

Yes.. Rebels is the only egregious offender when it comes to rank... Lets not forget that smugglers can be given the rank of "general".

Applying US style ranking doesn't fit into Star Wars. For instance, Comnander is less a full fledged rank, but an appelation given to those who are in charge. So Ezra's rank of Lieutenant Commander, is a Lieutenant that is in command of a squad or unit.

An admiral (or grand-admiral) is in overall command of a fleet of starships, issuing commands to battle groups in combat. A general seem to be, someone who not only commands a group but also formulates plans of attack.

Remember that General Anakin Skywalker in the clone wars was often in command of star ships.

So Admirals do general day to day command, Generals draw up plans of attack, often leading said plans from the forefront. In the case of the Empire, specifically those under Darth Vader, take the fault of a loss.

A general does not necessarily outrank an admiral, but by virtue of planning an attack, can tell them what to do. Said admiral then can interpret HOW to accomplish this, or suggest a better way, as Yularan did with Anakin.

It is convoluted, but does make some sense.

I just rewatched several of the scenes on the episode and realized Commander Sato says Lieutenant Commander when giving him the position, but later refers to him as Commander Bridger. I think the script had it different for the actors. Ezra, Sabine, and Rex got it saying Lieutenant and Sato as Lieutenant Commander / Commander. As you would shorten Lieutenant Commander to Commander which is normal practice. I.E. "2nd Lieutenant and 1st Lieutenant are referred to as Lieutenant."

What i did not like.. is how Ezra is able to communicate with Hera with a wrist communicator with zero Delay. Instead we could have had Kanan going "Ezra is in trouble, we need to send the fleet!"

And a promotion lieutenant commander? you mean Ezra was a Lieutenant before? Arg there are so many things wrong with this.

I would say that the wrist communicator was being relayed from the phantom's com system. Considering we saw Obiwan send a Holovid Broadcast in realtime from Geonosis to Tatooine in AtoC. I would not consider near instant voice out of the realm of possibilities.

As for the promotion I don't see an issue to much as it has been 6 months in time since the end of SSN 2. I think they did a fine job of establishing that he had been very involved in previous missions and is another example of showing how far he has come since we saw him last. In comparison Luke was promoted to Lieutenant shortly after ANH.

Lieutenant Commander is a step higher rank then Lieutenant if using US Navy for comparison. Lt. Commander didn't exist in WEG Rebel ranks.

Re-watching the promotion clip we hear, "You will lead this mission as Lieutenant Commander". Then Ezra immediately responds with surprise, "Lieutenant? A promotion?". Huh? So which is it? Lieutenant Commander or Lieutenant? Later in the episode he is again called just, "Lieutenant" more then once. So when he was told he was being promoted, was there supposed to be a comma in there? The voice actor got it wrong? Was it supposed to be, "You will lead this mission as Lieutenant, commander"? The "commander" part was just a general term for being the person in charge during the mission? For example it could have been, "You will command this mission as Lieutenant, leader". That or the script writer or voice actor added "Commander" in error since it's the only time we see it. Either explanation is sloppy.

And throughout the rest of the episode, the other characters referred to him as "Lieutenant," as well. That was my head-scratcher, as well. I've come to expect better internal consistency from this production team. I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't been deluged with questions about it already.

Yes.. Rebels is the only egregious offender when it comes to rank... Lets not forget that smugglers can be given the rank of "general".

Applying US style ranking doesn't fit into Star Wars. For instance, Comnander is less a full fledged rank, but an appelation given to those who are in charge. So Ezra's rank of Lieutenant Commander, is a Lieutenant that is in command of a squad or unit.

An admiral (or grand-admiral) is in overall command of a fleet of starships, issuing commands to battle groups in combat. A general seem to be, someone who not only commands a group but also formulates plans of attack.

Remember that General Anakin Skywalker in the clone wars was often in command of star ships.

So Admirals do general day to day command, Generals draw up plans of attack, often leading said plans from the forefront. In the case of the Empire, specifically those under Darth Vader, take the fault of a loss.

A general does not necessarily outrank an admiral, but by virtue of planning an attack, can tell them what to do. Said admiral then can interpret HOW to accomplish this, or suggest a better way, as Yularan did with Anakin.

It is convoluted, but does make some sense.

I don't recall seeing anyone claiming that Rebels was the only (or even an ) "egregious offender." And, in fact, the very sort of scenario that you describe was brought up. What left some of us scratching our heads was the combination of the line's delivery with an apparent inconsistency of usage in the rest of the episode, coupled with how we've seen such ranks and titles used in Star Wars context thus far (along with, perhaps a dollop of familiarity with those ranks both in real life and similar fiction a la Star Trek).

I just rewatched several of the scenes on the episode and realized Commander Sato says Lieutenant Commander when giving him the position, but later refers to him as Commander Bridger. I think the script had it different for the actors. Ezra, Sabine, and Rex got it saying Lieutenant and Sato as Lieutenant Commander / Commander. As you would shorten Lieutenant Commander to Commander which is normal practice. I.E. "2nd Lieutenant and 1st Lieutenant are referred to as Lieutenant."

Considering Sato is a commander in charge of Phoenix Cell's "Fleet" I have to say making Ezra a lieutenant.. in command of a mission... makes more sense. But then... if you are going to start throwing around ranks, wouldn't you think that other members of the group would have more time and grade... captain Rex could easily justify pulling rank just based on Experience. Seems it was all handwaved just to allow Ezra to command.. almost like Making Kirk a captain in the recent Star Trek Reboot.

What i did not like.. is how Ezra is able to communicate with Hera with a wrist communicator with zero Delay. Instead we could have had Kanan going "Ezra is in trouble, we need to send the fleet!"

And a promotion lieutenant commander? you mean Ezra was a Lieutenant before? Arg there are so many things wrong with this.

I would say that the wrist communicator was being relayed from the phantom's com system. Considering we saw Obiwan send a Holovid Broadcast in realtime from Geonosis to Tatooine in AtoC. I would not consider near instant voice out of the realm of possibilities.

I am not doubting that a ship could relay it, as we see wrist holonet communicators in the Clone wars. But we are talking about Empire Era, and the only people who were able to use the Holonet during that time was the Empire. The fact that Ezra COULD communicate real time with Hera at least "Two jumps" away from Atollon just opens up so make plot holes

Holonet = Instant galaxy wide communication

I just rewatched several of the scenes on the episode and realized Commander Sato says Lieutenant Commander when giving him the position, but later refers to him as Commander Bridger. I think the script had it different for the actors. Ezra, Sabine, and Rex got it saying Lieutenant and Sato as Lieutenant Commander / Commander. As you would shorten Lieutenant Commander to Commander which is normal practice. I.E. "2nd Lieutenant and 1st Lieutenant are referred to as Lieutenant."

Considering Sato is a commander in charge of Phoenix Cell's "Fleet" I have to say making Ezra a lieutenant.. in command of a mission... makes more sense. But then... if you are going to start throwing around ranks, wouldn't you think that other members of the group would have more time and grade... captain Rex could easily justify pulling rank just based on Experience. Seems it was all handwaved just to allow Ezra to command.. almost like Making Kirk a captain in the recent Star Trek Reboot.

Rank isn't appointed just because of time and experience. Just because you were around first doesn't mean you should, will, or even want to lead. I take Sato's comments about Ezra's contributions as the justification for giving him a chance to lead the mission. There is nothing showing the other members were passe over for this particular mission. He wasn't given command of the Phoenix Squadron like Hera was. It was command of a single mission at this point. So there wouldn't be a reason for anyone to pull rank just cause they are more experienced. I consider it out of character for Rex to pull rank considering he has been mentoring Ezra.

The Kirk Example doesn't apply to Ezra's situation.

What i did not like.. is how Ezra is able to communicate with Hera with a wrist communicator with zero Delay. Instead we could have had Kanan going "Ezra is in trouble, we need to send the fleet!"

And a promotion lieutenant commander? you mean Ezra was a Lieutenant before? Arg there are so many things wrong with this.

I would say that the wrist communicator was being relayed from the phantom's com system. Considering we saw Obiwan send a Holovid Broadcast in realtime from Geonosis to Tatooine in AtoC. I would not consider near instant voice out of the realm of possibilities.

I am not doubting that a ship could relay it, as we see wrist holonet communicators in the Clone wars. But we are talking about Empire Era, and the only people who were able to use the Holonet during that time was the Empire. The fact that Ezra COULD communicate real time with Hera at least "Two jumps" away from Atollon just opens up so make plot holes

Holonet = Instant galaxy wide communication

If only the Empire was able to use the Holonet then how did Hera communicate with Fulcrum during the first season? Of course that can be explained by encrypted single which explains how Ezra could do it now. The show has shown that someone can Hijack the Holonet Feed. We can also assume that the Alliance probably has Secured access to the HoloNet for its communications.

We really don't know the distance between the locations. Only that they had to make at least 2 Jumps to somewhat safely enter the system. We can assume there was a HoloNet Relay close enough for the Empire to communicate with the station from somewhere near Lothal.

For better or worse, "the Empire controls the HoloNet" might be an EU/RPG element not fully brought into mouse-canon.

For better or worse, "the Empire controls the HoloNet" might be an EU/RPG element not fully brought into mouse-canon.

It might be in mouse canon, but it's reasonable that the signal can be hijacked.

It is in Mouse-cannon. One of the late season 1 episodes was them breaking into to the holo-net transmitter on Lothal to put in a data spike with the call to rebellion message. Which set up the Vader coming in for the Season 2 movie.

Random thoughts:

Rank of Lieutenant could be a brevet rank, effective only for the length of the mission.

Rank of Lieutenant Commander could be a nod to the 'Commander' rank given to Jedi Padawans during the Clone Wars (although I've noticed they've started referring to that period of galactic history as "the clone war") and could simply be indicating Ezra's status relative to Kanan (whose last rank in the GAR was Commander, just as Rex is still a Captain, his last rank in the GAR) rather than denoting a rank superior to a Lieutenant SG. Which might also explain the common use of the title of Lieutenant in communication with other members of the cell.

As previously mentioned, the rebels gave the rank of General to a gambler in one instance and a smuggler in another. It might be worth remembering that in a rebellion, a particular rank may indicate less what one has achieved or leads and more what one thinks sounds cool. Never mind the potential to use rank in communications a counter-surveilance or counter-intelligence tactic.

Hoping to see a lot more as the season progresses. It felt like they tried to do too much in this season premier and rushed the "all is well" ending with Ezra supposedly making amends with Kanan and deciding to do things the better way. It felt really forced, considering he just opened the holocon in the season finale and we got only a glimpse of him using it (and it likely using him).

Bendu: Seems like there's a lot they can do with that character. However, the way he was portrayed in the episode amounted to "Kanan, check yourself before you wreck yourself".

Thrawn seems neat. I have no personal attachment to the character or anything but it's neat to see another race canonized and a fan-favorite make their way into the nu-canon.

Looking forward to seeing how they develop things.

I found it odd that Ezra, as a Lieutenant Commander was often called Lieutenant and only once called Commander.