My biggest gripe with Rebels so far was that the main cast had only problems when they have to deal with big shots like Tarkin, Vader and now Thrawn.

Not to belittle them but the Empire's servants are often portraied as so .. inefficience that i my suspension of disbelive simply brakes. They would not have survived so far along if (my feeling by the show so far) 90%+ of the imperial military/navy are incompetent bunglers.

Yes, i am happy that Thrawn is back and portrayed like in the books, but again such a big name is needed.

The rebels operate at the same level as several smugglers/pirate groups and the Empire usually knows how to deal with those.

So far i don't get the feeling that the heroes earn most their successes.

Well, most PC groups only have big problems when a Nemesis appears. Groups of Minions and a few Rivals are usually just scenery to be chewed.

Not sure what the big deal about Thrawn is.

Never really thought to highly of the character concept, he was portrayed as this omnipotent being that could figure out what you where planing by looking at art work from your world

To me he was nothing more then a sentient super weapon like all others from the books (Suncrusher, Yuuzhan Vong,etc.)

So... As to the Wedge backstory, it seems he, as per Aftermath I recall, knew Fulcrum aka: Ahsoka. Lets see how this plays out.

So... As to the Wedge backstory, it seems he, as per Aftermath I recall, knew Fulcrum aka: Ahsoka. Lets see how this plays out.

Wedge was recruited by Fulcrum per Aftermath .

However, we don't know if this means that he was in contact with Fulcrum/Ahsoka prior to his actual defection - he may have been feeding Ahsoka intelligence and it might be that Wedge needs to be extracted and the rebel intelligence network has a failsafe that results in the Ghost being tapped for the op: So maybe Wedge makes a dead drop that indicates that he is in distress, under duress, or otherwise needs to be extracted. This makes it to a rebel agent who then contacts someone who is supposed to be in contact with Ahsoka and - since Ahsoka has disappeared - it then moves on to the Ghost (perhaps that's where the rebellion thinks Ahsoka is) or they simply tap the Ghost for the exfil.

Alternatively, Fulcrum, as a codename, might simply be a codename for an individual with a particular task in the rebellion. Therefore, there may have been a Fulcrum before Ahsoka and there may be another Fulcrum after Ahsoka. In any event, I don't think we're likely to see much of Ahsoka in S3, except maybe in visions and flashbacks (like Yoda seeing Ahsoka dying at the Jedi Temple along with Obi-Wan, &c.). And this new Fulcrum might be hanging out with the Ghost for reasons when they encounter Wedge and Wedge decides that he'd rather fight for the rebels than the Empire.

So... As to the Wedge backstory, it seems he, as per Aftermath I recall, knew Fulcrum aka: Ahsoka. Lets see how this plays out.

That's an excellent point. I think we may have found a hole in the new canon. Ahsoka is MIA by the time Wedge joins, and does anybody even bother referring to her as Fulcrum any more?

I'll concede that I don't mind the *concept* of the character, much like Atama said over here . Basically Sherlock Holmes (minus the pile of vices) meets [pick a historical military strategist]. The former representing his reasoning abilities (though IIRC he uses in duction more than de duction) based on scant information, and the latter representing his military prowess.

But the way Thrawn has been handled in the literature is just doesn't produce rewarding story-telling. But Sherlock Holmes (or most detective) stories are satisfying because the reader has at the very least the opportunity to follow the line reasoning that accompanies the evidence as it is discovered. In contrast, what's presented with Thrawn is just "I could predict [basically any event] because [made up science-fantasy facts]." The reader has no context to what is known and therefore no chance to follow the reasoning. Thrawn may as well have just been portrayed as being as omniscient as any Force user since his 'astounding abilities of reasoning' are presented in practically the same way.

If they fix that problem, cool, the character may be interesting. But based on his portrayal to present, he's just a lazily written villain in my book. No need to get excited about his inclusion.

Edit: Apparently Zahn actually confirmed that Thrawn was a "Shelock Holmes plus Hanibal et al" amalgam in a letter to a fan .

WAAAAAAAAIT wait wait WAIT WAIT!!!

Hold everything... okay, this just got more interesting.

Thawn wasn't the only fan-favorite character introduced by Zahn in those books.

More changes would have to be made to this character's story arc, obviously, but it's a lot more likely we'll see them in light of this announcement. That I'm okay with.

So... As to the Wedge backstory, it seems he, as per Aftermath I recall, knew Fulcrum aka: Ahsoka. Lets see how this plays out.

That's an excellent point. I think we may have found a hole in the new canon. Ahsoka is MIA by the time Wedge joins, and does anybody even bother referring to her as Fulcrum any more?

I believe Aftermath referred to her as Fulcrum; perhaps that voice we hear is someone else taking up the mantle.

So... As to the Wedge backstory, it seems he, as per Aftermath I recall, knew Fulcrum aka: Ahsoka. Lets see how this plays out.

That's an excellent point. I think we may have found a hole in the new canon. Ahsoka is MIA by the time Wedge joins, and does anybody even bother referring to her as Fulcrum any more?

A7T beat me to it, but yeah, 'Fulcrum' could just be a code name used in serial by different agents at different times. Or maybe Ahsoka's really not dead, but that would be about as goofy as Maul not being dead.

So... As to the Wedge backstory, it seems he, as per Aftermath I recall, knew Fulcrum aka: Ahsoka. Lets see how this plays out.

That's an excellent point. I think we may have found a hole in the new canon. Ahsoka is MIA by the time Wedge joins, and does anybody even bother referring to her as Fulcrum any more?

There are a number of ways round this. Wedge may already be a rebellion pilot at this point and infiltrates. As already said Fulcrum at this time may not be Ahsoka. Ahsoka may still be alive (although I still think MIA for season 3 personally. They do have another person with a masked voice talking over coms during the trailer, this couod be the new fulcrum.

I dont thi k they will have dropped an obvious plot hole like this when it comes to Wedge assuming that it is Wedge Antilles.

Canonizing quite a bit here:

Phase 2 Dark Troopers

Grand Admiral Thrawn

Wedge starting out as an Imperial pilot and defecting to the Rebellion

Blood Stripes on TIE Interceptors that hopefully means the 181st Squadron

More force mysteries to discover:

How the Jedi and Sith holocrons interact

What the "key" to defeating the Sith Ezra mentions is

Bendu and what he has to do with the force and what Kanan seems to be learning from him

The deal with the green force spirit possessing Kanan

Bringing back some fun stuff previously seen in Clone Wars and even Rebels:

Fenn Rau

B-1 Battle Droids

The Darksaber

Y-Wings

That's a very nice list and all, but you're missing one very vital thing:

Tom Freakin' Baker is doing a character.

Also, the 'masked' voice is clearly Agent Kallus.

'Grey Jedi' is just more Mary Sue crap,

Inappropriate usage of "Mary Sue" outside the actual meaning:

So... As to the Wedge backstory, it seems he, as per Aftermath I recall, knew Fulcrum aka: Ahsoka. Lets see how this plays out.

That's an excellent point. I think we may have found a hole in the new canon. Ahsoka is MIA by the time Wedge joins, and does anybody even bother referring to her as Fulcrum any more?

A7T beat me to it, but yeah, 'Fulcrum' could just be a code name used in serial by different agents at different times. Or maybe Ahsoka's really not dead, but that would be about as goofy as Maul not being dead.

Did we see her struck down?

Did we see a body?

'Grey Jedi' is just more Mary Sue crap,

Inappropriate usage of "Mary Sue" outside the actual meaning:

I'm not going to get into a protracted debate about this, but no, the term is right on the money.

The term "mary sue" can apply to any character that can arbitrarily do something that no other character can do without any training. I would put ANY gray Jedi in a Mary Sue camp, as they can call on the Dark Side without being corrupted by it, because they're a magical special snowflake.

You wanna go down the list of why Ezra is lousy with Mary Sue traits?

• Young? Check
• Dramatic back story? Check
• Obscene talent with no training? Check

And if we're adding "Canon-breaking powers" like a grey Jedi, I don't know how this little snot doesn't qualify. The term can be used to apply to viewer proxy just as well as author proxies as well. ( source source )

The same sources state there's not even consensus on the definition, so unless your shoving those cards in other peoples faces , take your condescension else where.

WAAAAAAAAIT wait wait WAIT WAIT!!!

Hold everything... okay, this just got more interesting.

Thawn wasn't the only fan-favorite character introduced by Zahn in those books.

More changes would have to be made to this character's story arc, obviously, but it's a lot more likely we'll see them in light of this announcement. That I'm okay with.

In the panel they were asked about Mara Jade and Filoni pretty much said no.

He also went on to say that Ysalamiri aren't going to be canon as the entire concept of them negating the force doesn't make sense if the force is everywhere in the Star Wars galaxy.

See, to me it just means Ysalamiri would have developed the Suppression power to prevent predators like the Vornskr from finding them.

WAAAAAAAAIT wait wait WAIT WAIT!!!

Hold everything... okay, this just got more interesting.

Thawn wasn't the only fan-favorite character introduced by Zahn in those books.

More changes would have to be made to this character's story arc, obviously, but it's a lot more likely we'll see them in light of this announcement. That I'm okay with.

In the panel they were asked about Mara Jade and Filoni pretty much said no.

He also went on to say that Ysalamiri aren't going to be canon as the entire concept of them negating the force doesn't make sense if the force is everywhere in the Star Wars galaxy.

See, to me it just means Ysalamiri would have developed the Suppression power to prevent predators like the Vornskr from finding them.

yeah, someone pointed this out in the other thread, as well. Again, I'll say it's disappointing that when I try to find a reason to get excited for this and even that's shot down.

'Grey Jedi' is just more Mary Sue crap,

Inappropriate usage of "Mary Sue" outside the actual meaning:

I'm not going to get into a protracted debate about this, but no, the term is right on the money.

The term "mary sue" can apply to any character that can arbitrarily do something that no other character can do without any training. I would put ANY gray Jedi in a Mary Sue camp, as they can call on the Dark Side without being corrupted by it, because they're a magical special snowflake.

You wanna go down the list of why Ezra is lousy with Mary Sue traits?

• Young? Check
• Dramatic back story? Check
• Obscene talent with no training? Check

And if we're adding "Canon-breaking powers" like a grey Jedi, I don't know how this little snot doesn't qualify. The term can be used to apply to viewer proxy just as well as author proxies as well. ( source source )

The same sources state there's not even consensus on the definition, so unless your shoving those cards in other peoples faces , shove it up your exhaust port.

Is Ezra a fan-fiction character?

No.

Is Ezra somehow a "self-insertion" character?

No.

Therefore, not a Mary Sue.

Also, "special snowflake", second card:

Just as a suggestion, people, you cannot isolate a character from the story he's written in.

The "grey Jedi concept" may appear boring because you don't associate it with an interesting story, and "Holmes meets Hannibal" in a white uniform might seem a boring concept without a story attached to it. (I mean, if you're dead inside, that is - Who are you, and who murdered your childhood?)

Once you have a story attached to it ("artistically done", ba dum tsh) those characters are no longer concepts, they are much more alive. If you talk "concepts" while I talk "beloved character", you are inadvertently using fighting words. Just sayin'.

As far as I am aware, we only have two grey Jedi in new canon: Qui-Gon Jinn and Ahsoka Tano. Neither has been seen to use the Dark Side.

So using the old canon definition of, "uses the Dark Side but isn't corrupted by it," I think is somewhat baseless.

Might just as easily use the old canon definition (there was no definitive definition) of, "fully-trained Jedi who doesn't play well with the Jedi Council."

Mary Sue is such a lazy accusation, because it can be applied to so many figures of popular fiction. Since these stories are pretty much all about special people, accusing them to be about special people is, well, intellectually unchallenging, to say the least.

Star Wars is about special destinies, the Force making farm boys awesome fighter pilots, single pilots blowing up gigantic superweapons, the few against the many, good versus evil and all that. Yes, the characters in these stories are not accountants in the Imperial Tax Bureau with 2.3 kids and a secure pension. If you do not want wish-fulfilment, Star Wars is the wrong genre for you. By the way, compared to other main characters of the Star Wars universe, Ezra scores pretty low on the Mary-Sue-O-Meter anyway: no great destiny, no great parentage, powers despite being talented not outside the ordinary for Jedi.

Finally, where does this "Grey Jedi"-stuff come from? The trailer shows exactly zero evidence that Ezra can call upon the Dark Side without being corrupted. On the contrary, the imagery being used places him in direct danger of giving in to the temptation of greater power and changing. Which, of course, is one of the underlying tropes of Star Wars since the OT.

So... Why is no one talking about Thrawn's eye liner?

I'm still hyped. From the little shown in the trailer I like what I see. And I am not a fan Zahn or Thrawn. I have to wonder how different the character will be in the new book compared to the original trilogy since everything that happened in that trilogy was wiped out? How much of his story has changed? I like that the characters have progressed with the kid seeming to have matured. New haircut et al. But yeah i am looking forward to it all. Still enjoyed the second season even though I am not a fan of Ahsoka. More maul is something to look forward to. Always thought he got the short end of the stick in TPM and he was much more interesting than Darth Tyrannus or Count Dooku or whatever you want to call him. But that probably had more to do with his appearance being cut short. Kind of like Boba Fett that way I guess.

[...] But that probably had more to do with his appearance being cut short. [...]

Pun intended?

[...] But that probably had more to do with his appearance being cut short. [...]

Pun intended?

I always thought he only got half as much screen time as he should have .......