Sigh why do people not grasp that when Luke is told he is the last its a lie.

They lied to him about his father, kept his sister a secret and sent him off to kill his father and murder the Emperor with a couple weeks worth of training.

Its not a big stretch that there could literally be thousands of Jedi running around and Yoda/ ObI Wan would still tell Luke he's the last one, because if he is captured, or fails or falls to the Darkside he can't cause a whole new Jedi murdering spree to happen.

Sigh why do people not grasp that when Luke is told he is the last its a lie.

They lied to him about his father, kept his sister a secret and sent him off to kill his father and murder the Emperor with a couple weeks worth of training.

Its not a big stretch that there could literally be thousands of Jedi running around and Yoda/ ObI Wan would still tell Luke he's the last one, because if he is captured, or fails or falls to the Darkside he can't cause a whole new Jedi murdering spree to happen.

The bottom line answer is that Lucas wasn't worldbuilding in the movies or considering the wider implications of what he showed or what his characters said. He was 1/2 mythweaving, and 1/2 "rule of kewl".

Sigh why do people not grasp that when Luke is told he is the last its a lie.

They lied to him about his father, kept his sister a secret and sent him off to kill his father and murder the Emperor with a couple weeks worth of training.

Its not a big stretch that there could literally be thousands of Jedi running around and Yoda/ ObI Wan would still tell Luke he's the last one, because if he is captured, or fails or falls to the Darkside he can't cause a whole new Jedi murdering spree to happen.

The bottom line answer is that Lucas wasn't worldbuilding in the movies or considering the wider implications of what he showed or what his characters said. He was 1/2 mythweaving, and 1/2 "rule of kewl".

Yep. Just like how the Ring in The Hobbit was retconned in a later edition to be the One Ring in The Lord of the Rings.

This is not the double-post you were looking for.

You can go about your business. Move along. Move along.

This is not the double-post we were looking for.

You can go about you business. Move along. Move along.

Also, do we have any direct information about what that glowy thing was they found in the ice cave? Part of me says "lightsaber crystal!" another part says "freaky alien egg thingy!" another says "Evil sith corruption stone going to turn him crazy evil!"

thoughts?

I say meteorite or barab ingot.

In the scene in the episode it first appears it makes a tone. Zeb only noticed once it's needed. It doesn't make the tone when held.

Doesn't look like a crystal of any known kind.

I'm hoping some kind of egg for some kind of force sensitive animal. Could be a variant on the Snowfeather birds of Ilum, but I'm hoping for something new.

I could be a new pet that give the change of heart some folk want for Kallus.

I am thinking that Vader kills Kanen, grievously wounds Ahsoka, and Ezra turns dark (possibly even becomes Vader's disciple).

And the following season can be about the rest of the crew finding Ezra and trying to turn him back to the light.

That way star wars can keep its reoccurring theme of good turns evil and then evil redeems itself.

That keeps everyone's favorite character alive but getting her teeth kicked in, in process (which answers other half of the populace who wanted her dead).

That also solves the question of "You are the last of the Jedi" considering that Ahsoka is not a Jedi, Kanen is dead, and Ezra turns dark.

Just my thoughts.

I really hope they pull an Agents of Shield thing with the series on the rebellion winning offscreen.

"oh yeah, you rebel cell while you were still on that mission guess what? We won, some farmer blew the death star twice and kill vader.....you miss one hell of a fight while getting fuel didnt you?"

but most likely they would go with the safe route you are saying, i hope they dont but its the most clear cut path.

I am thinking that Vader kills Kanen, grievously wounds Ahsoka, and Ezra turns dark (possibly even becomes Vader's disciple).

And the following season can be about the rest of the crew finding Ezra and trying to turn him back to the light.

That way star wars can keep its reoccurring theme of good turns evil and then evil redeems itself.

That keeps everyone's favorite character alive but getting her teeth kicked in, in process (which answers other half of the populace who wanted her dead).

That also solves the question of "You are the last of the Jedi" considering that Ahsoka is not a Jedi, Kanen is dead, and Ezra turns dark.

Just my thoughts.

I really hope they pull an Agents of Shield thing with the series on the rebellion winning offscreen.

"oh yeah, you rebel cell while you were still on that mission guess what? We won, some farmer blew the death star twice and kill vader.....you miss one hell of a fight while getting fuel didnt you?"

but most likely they would go with the safe route you are saying, i hope they dont but its the most clear cut path.

I wouldn't say it's the "safe route" so much as it's the only thing that makes sense. If it's already been established, that the only potential jedi running around that could threaten the Emperor is Luke, it makes no sense to have three others running around, actively helping the Rebellion, and them not show up during the big battles. They have sadly, written themselves into a bit of a corner with doing Rebels as a prequel show. Because remember, Ezra is the exact same age as Luke/Leia. They were born on Empire Day too, based on how Revenge of the Sith was edited, and he's already as powerful as Luke was in Jedi. So....yeah you have to remove him, all of them really, from the story.

People say that the writers hace "written themselves into a corner", but I disagree. That implies that they don't have a concept of what to do with the characters, or haven't planned out the story arcs. I for one find it interesting as to how they will deal with the characters.

Perhaps Kanan and Ezra form the Jensaarai, or found the church of the force that Ming the Merciless err.. Lorr San Tekka belonged to.

If it's already been established, that the only potential jedi running around that could threaten the Emperor is Luke, it makes no sense to have three others running around, actively helping the Rebellion, and them not show up during the big battles.

SGS: small galaxy syndrome. The only reason Luke was the best hope was because of his emotional connection to Vader. It doesn't mean all other players had to tag along on his coattails. The galaxy was plenty big enough for all of them to be involved in different parts of it.

If it's already been established, that the only potential jedi running around that could threaten the Emperor is Luke, it makes no sense to have three others running around, actively helping the Rebellion, and them not show up during the big battles.

SGS: small galaxy syndrome. The only reason Luke was the best hope was because of his emotional connection to Vader. It doesn't mean all other players had to tag along on his coattails. The galaxy was plenty big enough for all of them to be involved in different parts of it.

I would agree with this, if the 3 jedi in question weren't actively working with, and found the Rebellion itself. If the show followed Ezra and Cannen's exploits elsewhere in the universe, and they had zero connection to the rebellion , that's fine. But they don't. They are literally fighting the Empire, founding the Rebellion (heck the Mandalorian girl whose name I can never remember even came up with their symbol for pete's sake), and fighting Darth Vader directly. They've clearly established themselves as being deeply invested in the efforts of the Rebellion. To have them suddenly just vanish off the map, when the climactic fight comes up later, just doesn't make narrative sense. If they are alive, they would want to take part in the big fight. But we know they don't, they're not in the Throne Room, helping fight Vader, they're not mentioned in any of the starships, in the big fleet battle. So the writers, since they are focusing the story on that very thing (the fight with the Empire), are going to have to write them out at some point. I mean, they've already met Leia, but where does she say "Oh Luke, you're a Jedi too? Yeah that's cool, I'm good friends with 3 others. Yeah they've been hleping us for years. Here, let me call them for you. I bet Ezra could teach you a ton of stuff, he's been practicing for years! And he's our age too, funny that huh?"

That's just not going to happen. The 3 characters, or at the very least Ezra, have clearly shown that they will fight, even if it kills them. I don't see them just walking away from it all (especially not Ahsoka a 2nd time) and just letting someone else handle it. If they are alive, they would be helping.

Now sure, maybe they will pull a Zeppo episode, and have some other equally as dangerous threat on the other side of the galaxy, that just happens to be going down at the exact same time as all of the key plot elements in the OT, but personally I think that would be a copout. I'd rather they let the characters have a good ending, and leave it at that.

If it's already been established, that the only potential jedi running around that could threaten the Emperor is Luke, it makes no sense to have three others running around, actively helping the Rebellion, and them not show up during the big battles.

SGS: small galaxy syndrome. The only reason Luke was the best hope was because of his emotional connection to Vader. It doesn't mean all other players had to tag along on his coattails. The galaxy was plenty big enough for all of them to be involved in different parts of it.

Scale / scope issues. A galaxy-spanning evil empire, the fate of every known and unknown world, sounds more dire and dramatic and impressive and mythological. But the story itself was largely taking place on a personal scale.

If it's already been established, that the only potential jedi running around that could threaten the Emperor is Luke, it makes no sense to have three others running around, actively helping the Rebellion, and them not show up during the big battles.

SGS: small galaxy syndrome. The only reason Luke was the best hope was because of his emotional connection to Vader. It doesn't mean all other players had to tag along on his coattails. The galaxy was plenty big enough for all of them to be involved in different parts of it.

I would agree with this, if the 3 jedi in question weren't actively working with, and found the Rebellion itself. If the show followed Ezra and Cannen's exploits elsewhere in the universe, and they had zero connection to the rebellion , that's fine. But they don't. They are literally fighting the Empire, founding the Rebellion (heck the Mandalorian girl whose name I can never remember even came up with their symbol for pete's sake), and fighting Darth Vader directly. They've clearly established themselves as being deeply invested in the efforts of the Rebellion. To have them suddenly just vanish off the map, when the climactic fight comes up later, just doesn't make narrative sense. If they are alive, they would want to take part in the big fight. But we know they don't, they're not in the Throne Room, helping fight Vader, they're not mentioned in any of the starships, in the big fleet battle. So the writers, since they are focusing the story on that very thing (the fight with the Empire), are going to have to write them out at some point. I mean, they've already met Leia, but where does she say "Oh Luke, you're a Jedi too? Yeah that's cool, I'm good friends with 3 others. Yeah they've been hleping us for years. Here, let me call them for you. I bet Ezra could teach you a ton of stuff, he's been practicing for years! And he's our age too, funny that huh?"

That's just not going to happen. The 3 characters, or at the very least Ezra, have clearly shown that they will fight, even if it kills them. I don't see them just walking away from it all (especially not Ahsoka a 2nd time) and just letting someone else handle it. If they are alive, they would be helping.

Now sure, maybe they will pull a Zeppo episode, and have some other equally as dangerous threat on the other side of the galaxy, that just happens to be going down at the exact same time as all of the key plot elements in the OT, but personally I think that would be a copout. I'd rather they let the characters have a good ending, and leave it at that.

There's an entire galaxy, the Empire must span 100s of 1000s of worlds... the Rebellion has 1000s of places it has to be working to oppose the Empire... and yet somehow, the crew of the Ghost just has, just has to be either dead, turned, or directly involved in the events of the movies?

Again... scale and scope.

If it's already been established, that the only potential jedi running around that could threaten the Emperor is Luke, it makes no sense to have three others running around, actively helping the Rebellion, and them not show up during the big battles.

SGS: small galaxy syndrome. The only reason Luke was the best hope was because of his emotional connection to Vader. It doesn't mean all other players had to tag along on his coattails. The galaxy was plenty big enough for all of them to be involved in different parts of it.

I would agree with this, if the 3 jedi in question weren't actively working with, and found the Rebellion itself. If the show followed Ezra and Cannen's exploits elsewhere in the universe, and they had zero connection to the rebellion , that's fine. But they don't. They are literally fighting the Empire, founding the Rebellion (heck the Mandalorian girl whose name I can never remember even came up with their symbol for pete's sake), and fighting Darth Vader directly. They've clearly established themselves as being deeply invested in the efforts of the Rebellion. To have them suddenly just vanish off the map, when the climactic fight comes up later, just doesn't make narrative sense. If they are alive, they would want to take part in the big fight. But we know they don't, they're not in the Throne Room, helping fight Vader, they're not mentioned in any of the starships, in the big fleet battle. So the writers, since they are focusing the story on that very thing (the fight with the Empire), are going to have to write them out at some point. I mean, they've already met Leia, but where does she say "Oh Luke, you're a Jedi too? Yeah that's cool, I'm good friends with 3 others. Yeah they've been hleping us for years. Here, let me call them for you. I bet Ezra could teach you a ton of stuff, he's been practicing for years! And he's our age too, funny that huh?"

That's just not going to happen. The 3 characters, or at the very least Ezra, have clearly shown that they will fight, even if it kills them. I don't see them just walking away from it all (especially not Ahsoka a 2nd time) and just letting someone else handle it. If they are alive, they would be helping.

Now sure, maybe they will pull a Zeppo episode, and have some other equally as dangerous threat on the other side of the galaxy, that just happens to be going down at the exact same time as all of the key plot elements in the OT, but personally I think that would be a copout. I'd rather they let the characters have a good ending, and leave it at that.

There's an entire galaxy, the Empire must span 100s of 1000s of worlds... the Rebellion has 1000s of places it has to be working to oppose the Empire... and yet somehow, the crew of the Ghost just has, just has to be either dead, turned, or directly involved in the events of the movies?

Again... scale and scope.

Your right, it's a huge galaxy, and yet, they've "just happened" to run into Lando Calrissian. Leia, Senator Organa (I think?), Darth Vader, Ahsoka Tano, Yoda, and I'm sure several others that I just can't remember. So it's a small enough galaxy for them to run into those characters, but not "happen" to run into them again at the climactic end?

Again, if they were going in a totally new route, and having nothing to do with the established canon, then sure, and I'd be 100% on board with that. But they're not, they never do. They always have to drag all of the main characters from the OT back into any story they do, because reasons. As if it wouldn't be Star Wars without them. But since they've already clearly established that these characters are right in the thick of everything, to suddenly have them just vanish at the climax is silly. They've given them a vested interest in the major events, the characters, given their personal motivations established so far, wouldn't just walk away. They did it once already with Ahsoka, to explain why she wasn't around in Revenge of the Sith, to have her do that a second time? It would negate all of her narrative growth.

There's no reason the fate of the characters should be bound to the marketing decisions they made to suck viewers in with familiar names and faces.

And... "narrative growth"?

There's no reason the fate of the characters should be bound to the marketing decisions they made to suck viewers in with familiar names and faces.

And yet that is exactly what they're going to do with the story. Considering that this is a business, they will make the decision that makes the most marketing sense, not narrative sense. And you know, I'll even allow that they probably won't kill them. It being a Disney kid's show, death is basically something that never happens to a main character. So you 2 are probably right, they will probably conveniently have some other threat they have to deal with on th eother side of the galaxy, that conveniently pulls them away from the actions of the trilogy. But that is the lazy writing option, and sad.

And... "narrative growth"?

So you're sarcasm, is it because you find new and confusing phrases amusing? Or are you commenting about the complete lack of growth in Star Wars characters?

So you're sarcasm, is it because you find new and confusing phrases amusing? Or are you commenting about the complete lack of growth in Star Wars characters?

Because I find such Writing 101, trope-driven nonsense tiresome.

Because I find such Writing 101, trope-driven nonsense tiresome.

If you consider the idea of a narrative arc for a character "trope driven nonsense' then I really don't have anything else to say to you.

Because I find such Writing 101, trope-driven nonsense tiresome.

If you consider the idea of a narrative arc for a character "trope driven nonsense' then I really don't have anything else to say to you.

I consider the hackneyed paint-by-numbers crap that passes for most "narrative arcs" to be largely worthless.

And most of the "character growth" we see in fiction is predictable, and trite, and utterly formulaic.

Because I find such Writing 101, trope-driven nonsense tiresome.

If you consider the idea of a narrative arc for a character "trope driven nonsense' then I really don't have anything else to say to you.

I consider the hackneyed paint-by-numbers crap that passes for most "narrative arcs" to be largely worthless.

And most of the "character growth" we see in fiction is predictable, and trite, and utterly formulaic.

I suppose the rest of us will just have to find comfort in actually enjoying something that you don't.

Honestly I don't know if I'll be able to cope.

I think people need to take a breath, step back and realize that while Disney owns Lucasfilm, the also own Pixar. The reason i mention this is Pixar has no limitation with characters dying. The Good Dinosaur, Finding Nemo, Up, all had poignant stories around the death of a character. Hell, even the Lion King has death in it.

I really feel that we should stop saying that Disney is just for kids and they will never kill off a character. The opposite, they will. If it is necessary to further the story, not to shock you.

Another important thing to consider is NEW fans. While many of us grew up on star wars, there is a whole new generation to make fans if the property. Lets be honest, we old (and often jaded) fabs forget that Star Wars has made its money off of us already, we are old, don't get the se excitement that a kid might and as so many of us are likely reaching the midpoint of our lifespan, focusing on a new generation is a way to keep new fans coming. These new fans are just as likely to be casual familiar with the characters and cameos of characters fromthe film give a point of reference. If you devour every souce of info and know the difference between the hydian way and perlemian trade route then, yeah it can be annoying, but a kid who is watching rebels with their dad and recognizes a character from dad's favourite film, Empire Strikes Back, can have a bonding moment with said parent.

To me that trumps ANY fanboyish complaint.

Finally, many of the stories we tell in film and print have the same "tropes" because we can relate to them. We seek to identify with characters and what they go through. Wd have done this as long as we as a species have told stories. The original trilogy films were rampant with the same backbone of "tropes" as the new, were just as derivitive as the new. But for many of us they were NEW to us, so think of that next time you watch rebels or whatever else, think of it through younger new eyes, rather than the old bitter ones we have, and you may find enjoyment and even understanding.

If possible, watch Star Wars with somone the same age as when you first watched it (not in a creepy way though) and pay attention to them if they are a fan. You will see joy in their eyes, maybe it will rekindle the joy you once had for Star Wars.

Taking my Son to see the Force Awakens, and watch him enthralled is one of the highlights of my entire life. My son and I sit and watch Rebels together. Best thing ever.

I am thinking that Vader kills Kanen, grievously wounds Ahsoka, and Ezra turns dark (possibly even becomes Vader's disciple).

And the following season can be about the rest of the crew finding Ezra and trying to turn him back to the light.

That way star wars can keep its reoccurring theme of good turns evil and then evil redeems itself.

That keeps everyone's favorite character alive but getting her teeth kicked in, in process (which answers other half of the populace who wanted her dead).

That also solves the question of "You are the last of the Jedi" considering that Ahsoka is not a Jedi, Kanen is dead, and Ezra turns dark.

Just my thoughts.

I really hope they pull an Agents of Shield thing with the series on the rebellion winning offscreen.

"oh yeah, you rebel cell while you were still on that mission guess what? We won, some farmer blew the death star twice and kill vader.....you miss one hell of a fight while getting fuel didnt you?"

but most likely they would go with the safe route you are saying, i hope they dont but its the most clear cut path.

I wouldn't say it's the "safe route" so much as it's the only thing that makes sense. If it's already been established, that the only potential jedi running around that could threaten the Emperor is Luke, it makes no sense to have three others running around, actively helping the Rebellion, and them not show up during the big battles. They have sadly, written themselves into a bit of a corner with doing Rebels as a prequel show. Because remember, Ezra is the exact same age as Luke/Leia. They were born on Empire Day too, based on how Revenge of the Sith was edited, and he's already as powerful as Luke was in Jedi. So....yeah you have to remove him, all of them really, from the story.

Lets review how Luke gets on the Death Star.

He surrenders to Vader.

Vader his father does not want to kill him so he survives surrendering.

Vader tries to turn him.

Luke tries to turn Vader.

Fighting ensues.

Luke declares himself a Jedi and would rather die.

Vader stops the Emperor from killing his son by throwing him down a shaft into the reactor core.

Leia and Han shut down the forcefield.

Luke escapes with dying vader

Lando blows up the death star.

Is there any way which Kanaan or Ezra could have done what Luke did?

No

Is there plenty of things Kanaan or Ezra could be doing at the time?

Yes

Are there ways that Luke, Ezra and Kanaan could go have kickass adventures between Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi or even after it?

Sure.

Hell Ezra and Kanaan could go vist Obi Wan and get some training pre A New Hope before he tells them sorry I've got to stay here Yoda and I have a master plan to defeat the Emperor and Vader, but It does not involve you, because you would just die horribly...

The entire crew of Rebels whole job during the Movie might be to keep Luke and Leia from getting captured or killed by Inquistors without ever actually meeting them. After Return of the Jedi they could still be around bringing Luke Jedi recruits or hunting down the last Inquistors.

Everyone last year was convinced the High Inquisitor was going to kill Kanaan and did that happen?

No so while its possible Ashoka could die its equally likely she survives and can't keep on fighting her former master, because for a large part despite all the horrible things he did she agrees with him that the Jedi Order needed to be destroyed.

Lets review how Luke gets on the Death Star.

He surrenders to Vader.

Vader his father does not want to kill him so he survives surrendering.

Vader tries to turn him.

Luke tries to turn Vader.

Fighting ensues.

Luke declares himself a Jedi and would rather die.

Vader stops the Emperor from killing his son by throwing him down a shaft into the reactor core.

Leia and Han shut down the forcefield.

Luke escapes with dying vader

Lando blows up the death star.

Is there any way which Kanaan or Ezra could have done what Luke did?

No

Is there plenty of things Kanaan or Ezra could be doing at the time?

Yes

Are there ways that Luke, Ezra and Kanaan could go have kickass adventures between Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi or even after it?

Sure.

Is there any way which Ahsoka Tano could have done what Luke did?

Yes

Is there something Kanaan or Ezra could do to help Ahoska accomplish what Luke did?

Yes

Ahsoka has far FAR more training and experience with the force then Luke ever did... which begs the question, why doesn't she help train Kanaan or Ezra? Because That is not what Rebels is about!

But the other side, is that Luke (and Liea) are the only ones strong enough in the force to be able to Turn Vader/Anakin back to the light and Together defeat the Emperor (which they did). It is not about skill, experience, or Training.. just sheer raw force power... or Midiclorians (*puke*) at your whim

What i have a problem with Rebels and OT cross referencing, is it seems they are Pandering to fans by including characters we know from other Movies or Series and using them as a shortcut for the writing so they don't have to explain anything since they really don't have the ability or time in a short episode to make a new interesting character.

Ashoka walked away from the Jedi Order she left and she never came back.

She never stopped what happened at the end.

She never tried to stop what happened.

She walked away.

To think she could convince Annakin to turn from the dark side and kill the Emperor require Anakin to care about her enough to do so. Anakin isn't in love with her, she isn't his son and when he needed her the most she walked away. He has every reason to want to kill her for her betrayal. I'm suprised you didn't grasp this fact. She even blames herself for what happened. She also is nowhere near strong enough for what has to be done.

Star Wars at its core is about family. The reason Obi Wan couldn't save him, is because he wasn't family. Luke is family and its that bond which led to what needed to be done.

I'm sorry you don't think there are any interesting characters and that so many of the characters from the movies and clone wars make an appearance. I'm sorry it doesn't live up to your impossible standards, because you are predisposed to hate it.

The fact that people think Ashoka aka Miss i WALKED AWAY ONCE AND IF THE GOING GETS TOUGH WILL DO IT AGAIN is going to die when she may just quit again, because its too hard or someone does something that violates her ethics is down right stupid. She already let the Galaxy burn once, because of her Ethics and Pride whats to stop her from doing it again.

Ashoka walked away from the Jedi Order she left and she never came back.

She never stopped what happened at the end.

She never tried to stop what happened.

She walked away.

<snip>

She already let the Galaxy burn once, because of her Ethics and Pride whats to stop her from doing it again.

Er...what? The Empire wasn't declared the day after she walked. You're assuming she had perfect knowledge, or even understood what happened at the end, even that the Emperor was a Sith Lord. Nobody knew what was going on, before, during, or even after. That's the whole point. Sidious was completely...insidious. He had the Jedi doubting themselves and running around in circles making all the wrong decisions, never seeing what was going on in front of their noses. Laying the blame for all that followed at feet of "Padawan Tano" seems a bit over the top.

The tragedy is that it's possible Ahsoka made the "wrong" decision, but for all the right reasons. The Jedi had no answers. Where do you turn when the organization you've devoted your life to turns on itself? Also, thinking about it "in universe", it's possible Sidious saw the bond between Anakin and Ahsoka and knew it would be problematic, so he set the whole thing up to split them. All he had to do was bring her to trial, an event which accomplished so much more than just a rift between Ahsoka and Anakin: the right of the Republic to interfere in the Jedi Order; or the media backlash if the Jedi didn't cooperate...it was a massively multilayered event, which makes your characterization kind of simplistic.

I kinda hope someone turns dark, either Ahsoka or Ezra. To give Kanan and whoever is left a villain for next season.

Kanan and Ezra fight Ahsoka
or
Kanan and Ahsoka try to redeem Ezra.

Some people even think Maul might come back (Seems he's harder to kill than a Tardigrade) and get a beating.
I'd kinda love Maul to come back and teach Ezra some stuff.