ThePatriot,

So where has it been said that the ancient Je'daii Order actually does have the best understanding of the Force?

To quote from one of the creators of the Dawn of the Jedi comic book series...

" The Je'daii don't see a division of the light and dark side; instead, they believe a balance is necessary between the two. The Je'daii are like the Titans in Greek mythology who came before the gods. They are beings of great power and ability, but not all-knowing . They struggle with the idea of balance in the Force and know that being out of balance affects their power and the planet Tython itself. "

―John Ostrander

(taken from the Wookieepedia page about the Je'daii)

That a host of other material, including the actual films themselves, indicate that an idea of a "balanced" approach is pretty much wrong is further proof that the Je'daii Order didn't have all the answers.

If you want to believe that as your own personal canon for your games, that's one thing. But there's nothing outside of the Dawn of the Jedi comic book series to support that idea as being applicable to the larger canon. As MaxKilljoy cited, the Je'daii Order is the most non-canon of Legends material, and has only gotten a name drop as being older name for the Jedi Order that most galactic sentients are aware of.

I already gave canon sources. Start with The Clone Wars Mortis Trilogy and Yoda's Journey in Season 6.

EDIT: You're jumping into the middle of a discussion and you actually proved my point that the only thing that screams Jedi in F&D is the morality mechanics. F&D fails to address other Force traditions adequately.

The irony for the Jedi is that "balance" only requires extensive "dark side" if one takes the rather extreme view that all attachment and emotion is leads to "the dark side".

Morality, or ethical behavior, does not come from extremes -- it comes from moderation and balance as a person .

The irony for the Jedi is that "balance" only requires extensive "dark side" if one takes the rather extreme view that all attachment and emotion is leads to "the dark side".

Morality, or ethical behavior, does not come from extremes -- it comes from moderation and balance as a person .

It depends on how you define the middle ground and the extremes. From the point of view of the Je'daii balance is the middle ground since it accepts both the light/dark side, living/unifying, and cosmic/physical force as being intertwined and interconnected. It accepts that positive emotions, having healthy attachments, etc... are all part of the natural cycle of life. With that as a basis then the Jedi's rejection of all emotions, attachments, etc... is the extreme view since it removes them from fully participating in the cycle of the Force and life. The same is true for Dark Siders in that they embrace only negative emotions, selfishness, and their quest for power at the expense of others. Both represent the extremes and is based upon subjective morality while balance within the Force is not based upon subjective criteria, but rather objective criteria that enables the use of the full Force and maintain the natural cycle.

I'm in the camp with George Lucas' original vision. The Force is in balance when it is in its natural state, which is the "light side". I can see where others interpret "balance" more literally, but it's just not a program I subscribe to. Even with the Mortis arc being canon.

I'm in the camp with George Lucas' original vision. The Force is in balance when it is in its natural state, which is the "light side". I can see where others interpret "balance" more literally, but it's just not a program I subscribe to. Even with the Mortis arc being canon.

Lucas's original vision of the force is what appeared in the Mortis Trilogy. He was the executive producer and creator of the show, so he knew what was going on. The thing about Lucas is that, like any creative person, concepts change and evolve to make better sense. Even the original screenplays of ANH show that the force in its natural state is one of balance. There isn't a light side. The dark side is named because it is out of balance with the entirety of the force. You have the Force and the Dark Side of the Force before the Mortis Trilogy.

I'm in the camp with George Lucas' original vision. The Force is in balance when it is in its natural state, which is the "light side". I can see where others interpret "balance" more literally, but it's just not a program I subscribe to. Even with the Mortis arc being canon.

Lucas's original vision of the force is what appeared in the Mortis Trilogy.

Color me exceptionally skeptical of this considering there's absolutely no mention of a light side in any of the films till TFA and nothing about "balance" till the prequels.

Not really sure what any of this Je'daii philosophy stuff has to do with Rebels. Seems like a carryover from the thread in F&D more than anything else. Don't really care one way or another, but I would rather not have this thread closed because of it degenerating into bickering over it. Let's stick to the topic at hand. I haven't had a chance to see the Lasat episodes but I have enjoyed the second season immensely. Kind of figured we'd end up there at some point what with Kallus carrying the symbolic weapon of their royal guard like Zeb.

It have given up on Rebels being something I enjoyed on par with the movies, or the Clone wars. I am not a teen/pre-teen. And i spend most of my time picking out continuity errors, plot holes, and Dues ex machina. It seems to me that if the writers, or Dave Filoni, thinks is cool it is done especially if it moves the plot along

The latest episode was only enjoyable because of Hondo. someone who is playing both sides against each other to make a profit. "Oh my... this is.. rather incriminating". but it is sad they have to bring someone back from the Clone wars to make the show something I like.

As far as the other part with Lasats and prophesy and finding their home. I rather I forgot that part happened.

I was re-watching season 1, and I have to say...after the episode with the search for Luminara, Kanan becomes a good teacher. Except for when dealing with the clones, he has the humility and insight to understand Ezra's issues and address them. Other TV series make a big deal of "misunderstandings" and other juvenile behaviour, I'm relieved this one doesn't.

I was re-watching season 1, and I have to say...after the episode with the search for Luminara, Kanan becomes a good teacher. Except for when dealing with the clones, he has the humility and insight to understand Ezra's issues and address them. Other TV series make a big deal of "misunderstandings" and other juvenile behaviour, I'm relieved this one doesn't.

With Kanan, I got the impression he was simply stalling and was hoping to find somebody he felt was more competent to train Ezra, not putting any real thought into the lessons (like maybe teaching Ezra without distractions before having him work with distractions). Which was why he was so gung-ho to free Luminara, so that he could pass the burden of training Ezra to somebody else. When he realized he couldn't shuck that burden and he had to be the one to train Ezra, that's when Kanan took the training far more seriously. Like you said, it's a good demonstration of his humility and insight to recognize that he had been doing Ezra no favors with the previous haphazard "lessons" and to take steps to correct it, and in so doing finally grasping what Yoda meant when he was saying "do or do not, there is no try."

I always got the impression that Kanan's got a lingering case of PTSD as a result of Order 66 and his early years as a fugitive; while he's mostly adjusted there are still some things (like being dragged into yet another war or having to deal with Clone Troopers) that aggravate it. Not enough to hinder him, especially during a mission, but enough to make him a less pleasant person than he usually is. That he's later on-board with helping the Rebellion (probably for Hera's sake more than anything) as well as having become friends with Rex is a good sign of both his development as a character and that he's learning to let go of the emotional and mental baggage from his past. To pull a line from Captain America: Winter Soldier, Kanan's learned to carry that baggage in something smaller than a check-in luggage; he's not quite at itty-bitty man purse yet, but he's clearly been making progress.

I thought it was okay - loads of backstory on Zeb and I really loved the music as they were tiptoeing through the nebula. Not the best episode, but it wasn't terrible either.

I can't wait until one of my players announces he's going to use his weapon "in the style of the ancients" as he blasts away at the ship's controls hoping it will magically gets them all to safety.

Yeah, but he had two Jedi also helping to supercharge his Staff of Power, so not that huge of a stretch in a universe filled with Kung Fu monks with Lensmen powers.

Besides, if my players did something outta left field like that at the climax of the game (and flipped a point to do so), I'd probably let them get away with it too.

Agreed, also the great visuals help smooth out the ruffles of the under-explained staff.

Also, yet another exhibit in why Hondo Ohnaka is the greatest character ever, he switches sides what, 3-4 times? I'm honestly just waiting for them to do an episode with both he and Rex in it.

Technically he didn't switch sides at all. He was on the same side the whole time, His Own.

"Bo-rifles are magic navicomputers that can chart black holes" actually isn't that much for me to swallow if they had the time to throw in a line about how they were ceremonial weapons designed to "always lead their wielders home" or something like that. This episode and the last one really feel like they should've been two-parters; there's a lot of interesting stuff that gets crammed into too small of an episode, so it ends up just seeming like they pulled most of it out of their asses.

Honestly I kind of get the feeling that they're rushing through some of the character development stuff on their way to the main plot.

Yeah this should have been at least a 3 episode arc, that way we could get more info about the Lasat culture, the (appearantly) force tradition of Lasat, background info on the bo rifles (maybe they are ancient weapons (with kyber crystals) passed down to honor guard members) and background on Zeb.

I liked what the idea of the episode but i feel that it was rushed.

Based on this week's episode, I'm questioning some of the current rules.

1) Ezra chops a TIE Fighter in half with his lightsaber. That and Episode VII convinced me that we need new rules regarding damage done by characters outside a vehicle to a vehicle. The current rules don't allow us to mimic what we've seen in the movies and the series.

2) Unlike real space, people seem to be able to be super fine in the vacuum of space as long as they have a helmet or something that allows them to breath. It seems that in the SW fiction the only real danger in space is suffocation.

Thoughts aside, I really liked the episode. Space whales are awesome.

I haven't had a chance to watch the last couple eps... still on DVR... sounds like the series is going downhill.

The series is good, the problem is that, like leo1925 said, it feels they should be doing 3-episode arcs like The Clone Wars. They have good ideas but they don't develop them as much as they should.

This episode didn't feel rushed like the last two, which was good.

Unfortunately, unlike the last two, it was very "meh".

Based on this week's episode, I'm questioning some of the current rules.

1) Ezra chops a TIE Fighter in half with his lightsaber. That and Episode VII convinced me that we need new rules regarding damage done by characters outside a vehicle to a vehicle. The current rules don't allow us to mimic what we've seen in the movies and the series.

2) Unlike real space, people seem to be able to be super fine in the vacuum of space as long as they have a helmet or something that allows them to breath. It seems that in the SW fiction the only real danger in space is suffocation.

Thoughts aside, I really liked the episode. Space whales are awesome.

Actually, StarWars.com reveals that the planetoid did have a breathable atmosphere, but one comprised of Clouzon-36, which is why they need their helmets: to filter out the harmful elements. However, Rodians and Yushyn's species are able to breath it just fine.

* Ah, the old Space Is Cold trope. Getting rid of heat is more the problem in space, more than freezing to death. Of course why the hell am I nitpicking scientific accuracy in Star Wars. I'll just shut up now.

* Pac Man TIE fighters?

* Space Whalesquids are cool!

* What species was that brown eyes-and-tenticals station boss thing? He looked pretty cool.

Okay, that was a pretty good episode. Sure it was fluff, but it was still enjoyable. No issues with it here.

http://www.geoffreylandis.com/vacuum.html

Overall, I enjoyed the episode and thought the introduction of the Purgill was cool. A warp capable critter that's intelligent and is harmless if you don't attack it. The lightsaber cutting the TIE was a bit over the top and didn't fit with what we knew about lightsabers vs. durasteel. It should have taken Kanan a lot longer to cut through the TIE then what was shown. My only other quibble was Kanan and Ezra surviving out in space without a space suit, unless they have a special force power that lets them ignore the effects of space.

* What species was that brown eyes-and-tenticals station boss thing? He looked pretty cool.

He looked like an Ood after too much time on mars .

My only other quibble was Kanan and Ezra surviving out in space without a space suit, unless they have a special force power that lets them ignore the effects of space.

Eh, that didn't bug me. Space has LOTS of air:

That's inside a living body, maybe there's an atmosphere.

When it comes to Ezra cutting through the Tie Fighter. It is not that off putting when you consider that the Tie was flying toward Ezra. Ezra just provided the Blade and the Tie did the rest. We have Kannan cutting through the legs of a ATAT. So it is not the first time we have seen something like this.

In respect to a PC doing it. I would say yes it is possible, but very difficult. This is as much about the narrative of a scene than just attacking a vehicle. It is not the same as slashing at a Tie Fighter sitting on the deck. So many other factors that are encompassed in it than just striking the Tie Fighter. Being able to move out of the way at the last second while still maintain contact. Also keeping the cut deep enough to sheer off the panel. I look at that as multiple dice rolls and that is not even looking at how difficult each of those rolls would be.

Given that they're barely more than flying tinfoil, I'm less preplexed by a TIE being sliced open by a lightsaber than I was by the de-limbing of the AT-AT.