I find the expectation of being a Jedi is what I find is wrong with FnD, whether it was on the label or not.

Going by the Rebels Recon associated with this episode, part of the intent was to demonstrate that the Force wasn't exclusively a Jedi/Sith thing, and that different cultures had different manifestations of the mystical energy field that the Jedi and Sith call the Force. And we've already had the Nightsister clan in TCW doing outright "magic" as part of the new canon, so having another culture display a different flavor of "space wizardry" or "space shamanism" isn't entirely unexpected, especially as we've had Maz in TFA who is a Force user with quite a bit of knowledge on the subject, but by her own admission is not a Jedi.

Is it explicitly mentioned at any point that any of those characters (Maz and the Lasat) were Force-users?

Going by the Rebels Recon associated with this episode, part of the intent was to demonstrate that the Force wasn't exclusively a Jedi/Sith thing, and that different cultures had different manifestations of the mystical energy field that the Jedi and Sith call the Force. And we've already had the Nightsister clan in TCW doing outright "magic" as part of the new canon, so having another culture display a different flavor of "space wizardry" or "space shamanism" isn't entirely unexpected, especially as we've had Maz in TFA who is a Force user with quite a bit of knowledge on the subject, but by her own admission is not a Jedi.

Is it explicitly mentioned at any point that any of those characters (Maz and the Lasat) were Force-users?

Thos episode, to me, further emphasizes one od the things I find wrong with Force and Destiny - the focus on the careers all being Jedi.

I don't see anything inherently "Jedi" about most of the specializations in F&D, and in fact find a lot of very un-Jedi like things in them. As Donovan mentioned, only the Saber Form specializations really call to Jedi stuff, and the Pathfinder having talents around getting pets is very un-Jedi like. The Imbue Item talent of the Sentinel/Armorer specifically ties back to the old "Alien Student of the Force" concept from WEG and WoTC. I think seeing Jedi in the specializations is seeing what one expects, as I can just as easily see a great many other expressions of the Force in the talents that have no bearing to Jedi.

Going by the Rebels Recon associated with this episode, part of the intent was to demonstrate that the Force wasn't exclusively a Jedi/Sith thing, and that different cultures had different manifestations of the mystical energy field that the Jedi and Sith call the Force. And we've already had the Nightsister clan in TCW doing outright "magic" as part of the new canon, so having another culture display a different flavor of "space wizardry" or "space shamanism" isn't entirely unexpected, especially as we've had Maz in TFA who is a Force user with quite a bit of knowledge on the subject, but by her own admission is not a Jedi.

Is it explicitly mentioned at any point that any of those characters (Maz and the Lasat) were Force-users?

Well it's certain implied Chava, the elderly Lasat mystic, was Force sensitive. Kanan even says the Force has many guises among different cultures. Chava even refers to the Ashla as the energy of the universe. Ashla was Lucas' original name for the Light Side (Bogan was the Dark Side). A nice little throw away reference.

Agreed that there's an implication of Chava being at the very least Force-sensitive, even if her understanding of the Force doesn't match up with what Kanan has been teaching Ezra. Just because she doesn't do anything overtly flashy that older viewers would associate with Force usage that doesn't mean she's not a Force user. And Zeb's bo-rifle (itself something of an ancient relic it would seem) only became a plot device after interacting with the stone on Chava's staff, so again it could be something that she did to empower the staff to allow Zeb to fulfill his role in the prophecy.

As with Maz, she all but states it in the film, in that while she's no Jedi, she knows the Force, with there even being a deleted scene of her using the Force to collapse part of her castle on top of a bunch of First Order stormtroopers. The scene is still alluded to as the rubble that Han, Chewie, and Finn scramble out of before joining the fight.

But I do agree with the earlier sentiment that this easily could have been a two-part episode. But seeing Hondo at work was still a treat, even if it may not have worked out quite so well for him at the end, as I can't imagine Agent Kallus simply letting a known pirate with established ties to this particularly bothersome group of Rebels go free.

I'm curious about where the writers take Hondo but escaping Kallus should be a piece of cake for him. At least I strongly hope so I still want to see his Corona Armed Frigate in a real fight.

There still is the part where it is stated that the child will defeat the warrior... If Zeb is the child (of lasan), Kallus the Warrior, and Hondo the fool, we WILL see another part to this story.

There still is the part where it is stated that the child will defeat the warrior... If Zeb is the child (of lasan), Kallus the Warrior, and Hondo the fool, we WILL see another part to this story.

Part of me wondered if they were trying to parralel the events to come in Episodes IV - VI. With the child defeating the warrior and all. Beyond that, nothing else lined up.

There is an upcoming episode outline that could imply my supposition above.

Hm. I've been skimming through the stuff I possess, official and homebrewed, but I can't find any stats for the type of imperial cruiser we've seen in Rebels, the one Kallus was aboard last episode... seems like a cross between the customs frigate and a star destroyer (tiny star destroyer) ...

Help?

As for the last episode, 'twas pretty cool, but I'd love to how the Lasat lived on that planet. Still, I love the mystical stuff with the bo-rifle and star-thingy (not exactly a nebula ... right?)

Just watched this week's episode. As others said, the music was purely amazing. The crescendo leading to the mystical hyperspace jump was full of complex emotions.

Like last week's episode, I feel like the story was a bit rushed and could've used another episode (and a bigger budget. Seriously, we're not even gonna see the surface of that super important Lasat planet?), but I still liked it. It felt good to learn more about Zeb's past.

I'm also glad to learn more about the Bo-rifles. It has been made clear why those weapons are so important in the Lasat's culture: the warriors would use these weapons to guide ships out of the cluster surrounding their original homeworld, with the help of some Lasat force sensitives. Raises the question though: would Kallus be able to go Lirasan with the help of the inquisitors? He'd have to believe his bo-rifle is more than just a trophy, so I guess that's unlikely, but the possibility stays.

As an aside, I got really excited at one moment:
Sabine: How far is it to Lirasan?
(Me: oh, are we gonna get some official hyperspace travel times?)
Hera: Well, judging by this...
(Me: oh wow they're doing it. YES!)
*Ship stops and gets out of hyperspace*
(Me: Well now you're just teasing on purpose)

As for the last episode, 'twas pretty cool, but I'd love to how the Lasat lived on that planet. Still, I love the mystical stuff with the bo-rifle and star-thingy (not exactly a nebula ... right?)

It seemed like the writers were really channeling the Maw cluster in this episode. Only with something far more interesting in the center.

No, the Lasat prophecy that the "child" must save the "warrior" and the "fool" was an allegory for Zeb. Zeb must believe as a "child" in order to save Zeb, the "warrior" Captain of the Lasat Honor Guard who allowed his disbelief... his "foolishness" to get in the way of saving his people.

At one point toward the end of the episode Chava says their are many warriors, children, and fools, and that no one person is ever just one of these people, but over the course of their life is all three. She states that "A child sees things not as they are but how they can be, the fool denies his destiny, and the warrior creates his own destiny." That's all speaking about Zeb... he's all three in one.

Gallandro, I think your interpretation is quite good, but not necessarily the only one. There was a line about "the fool has set things in motion" and a cut right to Hondo. There are other quotes regarding the fool that I cannot remember at this time, that are very close to Hondo's personality.

This is the thing with prophecies, that they can be interpreted many ways. Honestly, I'm expecting a showdown between Kallus and Zeb for the fate of Lirasat. We'll find out February 24th.

Thos episode, to me, further emphasizes one od the things I find wrong with Force and Destiny - the focus on the careers all being Jedi.

I don't see anything inherently "Jedi" about most of the specializations in F&D, and in fact find a lot of very un-Jedi like things in them. As Donovan mentioned, only the Saber Form specializations really call to Jedi stuff, and the Pathfinder having talents around getting pets is very un-Jedi like. The Imbue Item talent of the Sentinel/Armorer specifically ties back to the old "Alien Student of the Force" concept from WEG and WoTC. I think seeing Jedi in the specializations is seeing what one expects, as I can just as easily see a great many other expressions of the Force in the talents that have no bearing to Jedi.

The only thing that screams out Jedi is the entire Morality mechanics. It ignores other force traditions.

I disagree Patriot, the moraluty mechanic is there to move you towards the light side or the dark side, and having moral consequences to your actions. It's not there to force yo uto stay on the lightside as there is no penalty to be darksider. A nightsister of dathomir is perfectly playable, and that requires a low morality score. Also while it's never openly stated i think most "other force traditions" are aware of the light side/ dark side duality and have their take on it, and i bet most of them try to stay in the light. So morality isn't a strictly jedi thing, imo.

I disagree Patriot, the moraluty mechanic is there to move you towards the light side or the dark side, and having moral consequences to your actions. It's not there to force yo uto stay on the lightside as there is no penalty to be darksider. A nightsister of dathomir is perfectly playable, and that requires a low morality score. Also while it's never openly stated i think most "other force traditions" are aware of the light side/ dark side duality and have their take on it, and i bet most of them try to stay in the light. So morality isn't a strictly jedi thing, imo.

Correct. The Force is the Force, no matter what name it's called, and it's been established to have a light/good side and a dark/bad side. So the Morality mechanic isn't specifically a "Jedi" thing, but rather an indicator that of the various Force traditions it's the Jedi Order that have the best picture of how it operates, though by the admission of the wisest among the Jedi by no means do they have a complete picture, as even they can be thrown for a loop every now and again; prime example being the circumstances of Anakin's birth as well as how Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Ahsoka reacted to Mortis and three "living" personifications of the Force, an idea that is totally foreign to the Jedi Order's knowledge of the Force. If anything, the Jedi Order had removed the ritualistic and theological trappings that many of the older Force traditions had ascribed to the mystical energy field that surrounds, penetrates, and binds the galaxy together.

The Blind Men and the Bantha...

The only question is whether the Jedi are touching the leg, the ear, or some other part...

I disagree Patriot, the moraluty mechanic is there to move you towards the light side or the dark side, and having moral consequences to your actions. It's not there to force yo uto stay on the lightside as there is no penalty to be darksider. A nightsister of dathomir is perfectly playable, and that requires a low morality score. Also while it's never openly stated i think most "other force traditions" are aware of the light side/ dark side duality and have their take on it, and i bet most of them try to stay in the light. So morality isn't a strictly jedi thing, imo.

The Jedi actually don't have the best understanding of the Force. That would fall to the Je'daii Order which predates the Jedi Order by 10,000+ years. The Je'daii Order understood that there is balance in the Force and one must utilize both sides to remain balanced. Morality really doesn't play a role in it. They understood that the light and dark side, living and unifying, cosmic and physical force are all interconnected and intertwined.

The Jedi Order arose because of the split between the Lightside Je'daii that rejected the use of force sabers and Darksiders that embraced the force sabers. Force sabers were created by the Rakata and used the dark side to power them. Prior to the introduction of the force saber and the Je'daii vs. Rakata War, the Je'daii used swords, pikes, and similar melee weapons. By the Jedi's own code they are unbalanced with the force and focus solely on the lightside. They embrace life yet reject death. Death is a part of the cycle that is the Force.

Darksiders and the Sith reject the lightside and are also unbalanced like the Jedi. Now both of these traditions use morality as a way of maintaining control over their adherents. The original Je'daii Order did not use morality to enforce control. They used balance and when someone was unbalanced they were sent either to Ashla or Bogan to meditate on the opposing side of the force from what they were unbalanced towards. For example, a darkside user was sent to Bogan to meditate on Ashla and the lightside while lightsiders were sent to Ashla to meditate on Bogan.

The Je'Dai(iiiiiiii) are also the most Legendy of Legends material, too...

The Je'Dai(iiiiiiii) are also the most Legendy of Legends material, too...

That could change in the future as it takes place way before KOTOR or anything similar. Already Disney is incorporating things from the KOTOR era. Also, canon materials like The Clone Wars, specifically Season 6's last three episodes basically restates what I did as Yoda journeyed to learn how to live on in the force past death.

EDIT: I will also add that TCW's Mortis Trilogy says basically what I do about the Force. The Father is the balanced force. The Daughter is lightside only and unbalanced. The Son is the darkside and unbalanced. Only the Father was balanced.

I try very hard to forget the Mortis trilogy for other reasons, starting with the "and now the characters forget everything" ending. Ugh.

The Je'Daii , for those who don't know... IMO, a mixed bag.

I try very hard to forget the Mortis trilogy for other reasons, starting with the "and now the characters forget everything" ending. Ugh.

The <a data-ipb="nomediaparse" data-cke-saved-href=" http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Je" href="http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Je" daii_order"="">Je'Daii, for those who don't know... IMO, a mixed bag.

Try as you might to forget the trilogy, it is canon and presents the Force as something that is not what the Jedi or Sith believe. It is what I said it is. The Father is the Force in balance with neither side being more powerful than the other. The Daughter is the lightside trying to gain power over the Son. The Son is the darkside trying to gain power over the Daughter. When the Daughter dies and the Son takes control the series shows what happens when the Force is out of balance. Only by the Father sacrificing himself were they able to defeat the Son. Something to think about.

I try very hard to forget the Mortis trilogy for other reasons, starting with the "and now the characters forget everything" ending. Ugh.

The <a data-ipb="nomediaparse" data-cke-saved-href=" http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Je" href="http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Je" daii_order"="">Je'Daii, for those who don't know... IMO, a mixed bag.

Try as you might to forget the trilogy, it is canon and presents the Force as something that is not what the Jedi or Sith believe. It is what I said it is. The Father is the Force in balance with neither side being more powerful than the other. The Daughter is the lightside trying to gain power over the Son. The Son is the darkside trying to gain power over the Daughter. When the Daughter dies and the Son takes control the series shows what happens when the Force is out of balance. Only by the Father sacrificing himself were they able to defeat the Son. Something to think about.

I'm not arguing with you about the force -- and I think the Je'Dai, and Father, Son, and Daughter, are just more of the aforementioned "blind men".

Trying to forget the Mortis Trilogy isn't because it agrees or disagrees with my views on what the Force is or should be... as noted, it's for other reasons. Starting with the aforementioned ended which conveniently resets all the ways in which is would have nullified the fixed-narrative-future of Anakin by making them all forget everything. ARGH.

ThePatriot,

So where has it been said that the ancient Je'daii Order actually does have the best understanding of the Force?

To quote from one of the creators of the Dawn of the Jedi comic book series...

" The Je'daii don't see a division of the light and dark side; instead, they believe a balance is necessary between the two. The Je'daii are like the Titans in Greek mythology who came before the gods. They are beings of great power and ability, but not all-knowing . They struggle with the idea of balance in the Force and know that being out of balance affects their power and the planet Tython itself. "

―John Ostrander

(taken from the Wookieepedia page about the Je'daii)

That a host of other material, including the actual films themselves, indicate that an idea of a "balanced" approach is pretty much wrong is further proof that the Je'daii Order didn't have all the answers.

If you want to believe that as your own personal canon for your games, that's one thing. But there's nothing outside of the Dawn of the Jedi comic book series to support that idea as being applicable to the larger canon. As MaxKilljoy cited, the Je'daii Order is the most non-canon of Legends material, and has only gotten a name drop as being older name for the Jedi Order that most galactic sentients are aware of.