That would be awesome (full, true, legends-version Thrawn), but I'm not holding my breath...

That would be awesome (full, true, legends-version Thrawn), but I'm not holding my breath...

Yeah, expect a watered-down, cartoonishly evil and clueless version of him and you'll be closer on the mark (because we can't have competent, complex villains on a kid's TV show, can we?).

That would be awesome (full, true, legends-version Thrawn), but I'm not holding my breath...

Yeah, expect a watered-down, cartoonishly evil and clueless version of him and you'll be closer on the mark (because we can't have competent, complex villains on a kid's TV show, can we?).

It's depended on the character, so far... and I'd say that in a Star Wars series... the widespread belief that the Dark Side turns you into Snidely Whiplash with a sadism fetish ( ) is as much to blame as the fact that it's "for kids".

That would be awesome (full, true, legends-version Thrawn), but I'm not holding my breath...

Yeah, expect a watered-down, cartoonishly evil and clueless version of him and you'll be closer on the mark (because we can't have competent, complex villains on a kid's TV show, can we?).

It's depended on the character, so far... and I'd say that in a Star Wars series... the widespread belief that the Dark Side turns you into Snidely Whiplash with a sadism fetish ( ) is as much to blame as the fact that it's "for kids".

Well, sadly, a lot of that -is- backed up canonically (at least in the EU). There's lots of ridiculous sadism that actively causes long-term problems for Sith because of their documented philosophy. Of course, the same kind of stupidity (just the opposite side of the spectrum) is present in the Jedi order, too...

They both seem to be operating from flawed philosophical premises, IMHO.

That would be awesome (full, true, legends-version Thrawn), but I'm not holding my breath...

Yeah, expect a watered-down, cartoonishly evil and clueless version of him and you'll be closer on the mark (because we can't have competent, complex villains on a kid's TV show, can we?).

It's depended on the character, so far... and I'd say that in a Star Wars series... the widespread belief that the Dark Side turns you into Snidely Whiplash with a sadism fetish ( ) is as much to blame as the fact that it's "for kids".

Well, sadly, a lot of that -is- backed up canonically (at least in the EU). There's lots of ridiculous sadism that actively causes long-term problems for Sith because of their documented philosophy. Of course, the same kind of stupidity (just the opposite side of the spectrum) is present in the Jedi order, too...

They both seem to be operating from flawed philosophical premises, IMHO.

I think that's the point. When you go in the extremes, you loose sight of the bigger picture, and become uncompromising to the point of absurdity, while the middle is a more balanced stance. The Jedi Order showed on many occasions that at the point of the Twilight of the Republic, they'd lost themselves, yet were too set on their own path and blinded by their hubris, that they never actually saw how flawed they were.

The problem that I see a lot is that writers tend to feel that Imperials and Sith are interchangeable, that if you aren't displaying all the Sith evil qualities you can't be an Imperial. Thus we ended up with the stereotypical Saturday morning cartoon version we are stuck with. The EU did a much better job at separating the Empire from the Sith than what I've seen in the Disney canon thus far. Not saying they were perfect as they made some very ridiculous villains as well, but we had characters like Thrawn, Zsinj, and many others who while not a good guy, were fascinating and complex and sometimes made you stop and think. Even Daala, for all the lame writing that surrounds her, was a loyal Imperialist without being a crazy. By far one of my favorite moments in the early EU was the sideplot in Darksaber (a terrible book as a whole, don't get me wrong) where she is attempting to barter a peace between the warlords (who are the mustache-twirling type) and eventually she gets so frustrated at them because of their inability to be rational humans that she gases them all, because "I cannot leave the Empire in the hands of fools like you."

That's true.

I also get frustrated that some writers, and fans, can't separate "Sith" from various eras or sources, or treat them as individual characters... and insist that all Sith have to be mustache-twirling , puppy-kicking faerie-tale capital-V Villains ; either cackling megalomaniacal sadists, or juvenile emo-dark poseurs, who put on a show of how "unchained by morality" they are by engaging in gratuitous outrageous acts of "EVIL!".

That's true.

I also get frustrated that some writers, and fans, can't separate "Sith" from various eras or sources, or treat them as individual characters... and insist that all Sith have to be mustache-twirling , puppy-kicking faerie-tale capital-V Villains ; either cackling megalomaniacal sadists, or juvenile emo-dark poseurs, who put on a show of how "unchained by morality" they are by engaging in gratuitous outrageous acts of "EVIL!".

Yes. There's no question that Sith are going to be a notch up in evilness than your average bad guy underling, but that doesn't mean they're chaotic evil to the last. We have the excellent example of Dooku in the films that should have put that whole argument to rest a long time ago.

That's true.

I also get frustrated that some writers, and fans, can't separate "Sith" from various eras or sources, or treat them as individual characters... and insist that all Sith have to be mustache-twirling , puppy-kicking faerie-tale capital-V Villains ; either cackling megalomaniacal sadists, or juvenile emo-dark poseurs, who put on a show of how "unchained by morality" they are by engaging in gratuitous outrageous acts of "EVIL!".

Yes. There's no question that Sith are going to be a notch up in evilness than your average bad guy underling, but that doesn't mean they're chaotic evil to the last. We have the excellent example of Dooku in the films that should have put that whole argument to rest a long time ago.

The current canon "darksiders" we've seen -- I like to note how different they are all in personality and motivations and approach and powers...

Palpatine

Vader

Maul

Dooku

Ventress

Savage

Talzin

The Grand Inquisitor

Seventh Sister

Fifth Brother

Etc.

Word on the street is the 3rd Season will be the final season of Rebels.

You know, I'm okay with this. While I would love a long, sprawling 20 season epic, a much more focused story with a clearly defined beginning, middle and end is the superior way to go. I'd much rather see them follow a Babylon 5 model (where the end of the story was mapped out well before S1 E1 went to air) than a Simpsons model (where they just wander along reusing the same story over and over again, beating the show into the ground well past it's sell-by date).

You know, I'm okay with this. While I would love a long, sprawling 20 season epic, a much more focused story with a clearly defined beginning, middle and end is the superior way to go. I'd much rather see them follow a Babylon 5 model (where the end of the story was mapped out well before S1 E1 went to air) than a Simpsons model (where they just wander along reusing the same story over and over again, beating the show into the ground well past it's sell-by date).

If those are the choices, then yes, I agree... better to end than to linger painfully when it comes to fictional works.

That would be awesome (full, true, legends-version Thrawn), but I'm not holding my breath...

Yeah, expect a watered-down, cartoonishly evil and clueless version of him and you'll be closer on the mark (because we can't have competent, complex villains on a kid's TV show, can we?).

Tell that to Darth Vader. He seemed pretty **** competent in his one major appearance, and while the show itself didn't delve into the depth of the character, Vader's been noted as one of the more complex villains in 20th century cinema.

Personally, I doubt we'll see Thrawn; after all there's been rumors of seeing Boba Fett, Han Solo, or even Mara Jade in the show, and they've not made any appearances.

If they do indeed do Thrawn, will they not owe the author some kind royalties? Unless he signed away his intellectual property rights when he agreed to write the book. Sorry, my knowledge on how those deals work is limited.

If they do indeed do Thrawn, will they not owe the author some kind royalties? Unless he signed away his intellectual property rights when he agreed to write the book. Sorry, my knowledge on how those deals work is limited.

Pretty sure Lucas (and now Disney) still owned the rights to any character or story that was written by authors of the EU. Drew Karpyshyn has mentioned several times that he has no control over what they decide to do (or not do) with Darth Bane.

Tell that to Darth Vader. He seemed pretty **** competent in his one major appearance, and while the show itself didn't delve into the depth of the character, Vader's been noted as one of the more complex villains in 20th century cinema.

Well he has to be competent because he was shown to be such in the movies, and fans would rage if he wasn't.

You know, I'm okay with this. While I would love a long, sprawling 20 season epic, a much more focused story with a clearly defined beginning, middle and end is the superior way to go. I'd much rather see them follow a Babylon 5 model (where the end of the story was mapped out well before S1 E1 went to air) than a Simpsons model (where they just wander along reusing the same story over and over again, beating the show into the ground well past it's sell-by date).

B5 is probably not the best example in this case... Haha.

JMS rushed the series to completion in Season 4. Then? TNT picked it up and said, "hey, how about some more B5?" That unfortunately led to the pitiful Season 5, the terrible made-for-TV movies, and the ill-fated Crusade.

But, hey, Seasons 1-4 were indeed incredible television.

(...if not just a wee bit ridiculous with JMS' penchance for having each character deliver looooooong soliloquies from time to time.)

Would be fun with Thrawn, in some role or another. Someone competent, but not untouchable like Vader.

The inquisitors have so far been... not incompetent, but hardly as menacing as the first (and apparently Grand) Inquisitor. He came across as dangerous, intelligent and competent. I was sad to see him die, but then again Kallus makes a better recurring villain than a Grand Inquisitor, it's easier to believe an ISB agent being repeatedly defeated without having to be killed off by the heroes, nor killed by his own superiors. This is why the two new inquisitors (and the coming third?) kind of work, they're not like the Grand Inquisitor, neither as competent nor as menacing (in my opinion), but they represent more danger than Kallus, at least for the non-sensitives of our heroes.

That we haven't seen some other rumoured characters, isn't necessarily an argument that we won't see Thrawn. Although, I'm not holding my breath.

BTW, I will not be sad at all to see Rebels go the way of the dodo. In fact, hopefully, we will have all forgotten about it entirely over the course of the next few years.

...and perhaps Filoni and company will soon be granted permission to cover the ground between RotJ and TFA, which would allow for plenty of (perfectly acceptable to us old-school fans) Jedi action, freaky lightsaber designs, and ridiculously overpowered starships.

I thought Rebels was intended as a 4 season show... but 3 could work too, as long as the ending is satisfying.

This is a more contained series than TCW, which makes it in some ways better than TCW, but it's also smaller in scope, necessarily (it's not like we're following a massive army all over the galaxy). Watching TCW with my significant other, she thinks it's ok, but lacking focused narrative, which Rebels does have - she loved the first season of Rebels. I really like both shows, but think Rebels became better quicker than TCW managed to get into good storytelling (arguably the difference in scope makes TWC a bit more impressive, at least to me).

I will be sad to see it go, but it's been stated from the get-go that it was intended as a short/limited series. We just have to see where it ends up, how satisfying the ending is. Hopefully not a season 5 type ending. I want a tad more closure than that

A series set post-RotJ would be nice. Lots of space and time to do lots of crazy stuff. And they'll have Han, Leia and Luke to play around with too.

I've seen series ended too soon and gone on too long. With the advent of The Force Awakens Rebels has always had a limited shelf life as Disney/Lucas has been making noises about a series set in between RotJ and TFA pretty much since the get go. I will enjoy what we have while we can get it.

If they do indeed do Thrawn, will they not owe the author some kind royalties? Unless he signed away his intellectual property rights when he agreed to write the book. Sorry, my knowledge on how those deals work is limited.

As I understand the situation from talking with Mr. Zahn at a small-time convention several years ago, Lucasfilm pretty much owns the rights to any and all characters created for their books, and as such can do whatever they want with them, including having them appear in other material that the initial creator didn't write, killing them off at the whim of another author (Mara Jade's fate), or completely re-inventing them (if the rumor of Thrawn turns out to be true).

I've seen series ended too soon and gone on too long. With the advent of The Force Awakens Rebels has always had a limited shelf life as Disney/Lucas has been making noises about a series set in between RotJ and TFA pretty much since the get go. I will enjoy what we have while we can get it.

Considering Force Awakens' profits, maybe that new series would get a higher budget than Rebels! Honestly as long as Rebels gets a satisfying ending, I don't mind the show being smaller in scope. It was always pretty self contained to begin with, after all.

I think we need a series set after RotJ, or at least a bit before FA.There's still so much we don't know about that era, things that I doubt the new Trilogy will explore in depth. A tv show would be a perfect medium, the same way TCW helped flesh out the Prequel era.

B5 is probably not the best example in this case... Haha.

JMS rushed the series to completion in Season 4. Then? TNT picked it up and said, "hey, how about some more B5?" That unfortunately led to the pitiful Season 5, the terrible made-for-TV movies, and the ill-fated Crusade.

But, hey, Seasons 1-4 were indeed incredible television.

(...if not just a wee bit ridiculous with JMS' penchance for having each character deliver looooooong soliloquies from time to time.)

Yeah, but most of that was more Screwed By The Network than anything on JMS. While I cant defend the movies (beyond JMS wanting to capture lighting in a bottle again), Season 4 was rushed because the show had all but been canceled, and Season 5 suffered because the show was resurrected at the last moment, Crusade was hamstrung by TNT who realized that people who liked wrestling didn't watch B5 and people who liked B5 didn't watch Wrestling.

My point - having a firm (more or less) endpoint for the series isn't necessarily negated by the fact that the plan (almost) fell apart towards the end.

BTW, I will not be sad at all to see Rebels go the way of the dodo. In fact, hopefully, we will have all forgotten about it entirely over the course of the next few years.

...and perhaps Filoni and company will soon be granted permission to cover the ground between RotJ and TFA, which would allow for plenty of (perfectly acceptable to us old-school fans) Jedi action, freaky lightsaber designs, and ridiculously overpowered starships.

Why? There can be plenty of acceptable jedi action and freaky lightsaber designs in Rebels too. And it's actually far more belivable to be beacuse the Jedi order is dead for less than 20 years, sop lenty of time for a decent number of survivors to show up, while in FA there have been no Jedi at all for 30 years straight since Luke failed at training a new generations, and the old survivors probably died of old age or are too old for that s**t (to quote Lethal Weapon).

As for ridiculously overpowered starships, that's the bread and butter of Empire shipbuilding.....they invented the Death Star after all.

So Rebels is in a far better position to show jedi action that FA, which will have to do with Luke and whoever might live through the rebellion (Ashoka will be a bit too old, Yoda and Obi-Wan are dead, Rham Kota Quinlan Voss and any other legend survivors are getting too old as well); only Kanan and Ezra will have the right age to be properly active.

The FA timeline is actually much better suited to a "rogue squadron" style series than one showing any Jedi.

As for Rebels life expectancy, we all knew that since it's set 5 years before ANH there can be only about 4 seasons before the movie takes over.