Been gone a while...

But just curious? A "troll," in your definition is "one who disagrees with the majority regardless of whether that person lays out a series of bullet points that not only make sense, but are being ignored by the vast majority"...?

Okay, sure. *shaking head*

So a topic called "Thoughts on Star Wars: Rebels" is only supposed to draw in the flies that like the honey? Not the flies who are trying to point out that it might not be honey, folks, and is instead vinegar?

Again, okay.

For those of you claiming the first season of "Rebels" is WAY better than the first season of "Clone Wars?" I REALLY want to know what you're smoking. And then please ask you to get me in touch with your dealer. (Maybe then I'll be the good little poster that I'm supposed to be ... you know, according to Mr. Morningfire.)

Not necessarily.

I do believe folks offering me rebuttals that don't hold water, ignoring some of the series' faults, and claiming it is better than "Clone Wars" are deluding themselves.

But... Those people who genuinely like "Rebels" and are connecting to the characters in some way? Or those who don't mind the gimmicky tech or kid-friendly characters and dialogue? Or those who like the idea of Jedi in hiding everywhere within the Star Wars universe between Episodes III and IV? And, finally, those who don't mind the slow burn of the series thus far? Hey, different strokes for different folks.

But don't try to sell yourself and everyone else on the line that "that cigar is not really a cigar."

Make sense?

Hey guys, probably best to just treat Harlock999 as the troll that it is and ignore it.

Been gone a while...

But just curious? A "troll," in your definition is "one who disagrees with the majority regardless of whether that person lays out a series of bullet points that not only make sense, but are being ignored by the vast majority"...?

Okay, sure. *shaking head*

Uhm no.

It's flamebait comments like this...

For those of you claiming the first season of "Rebels" is WAY better than the first season of "Clone Wars?" I REALLY want to know what you're smoking. And then please ask you to get me in touch with your dealer. (Maybe then I'll be the good little poster that I'm supposed to be ... you know, according to Mr. Morningfire.)

that make people either ignore you or treat you like a troll.

I could relate a lack of intelligence or taste to you holding The Clone Wars to such high regard. But I don't begrudge what people enjoy or infer they may be high. I might think it of someone who infers it of others though. For me any show that is good is whether it has any ability to make me want to rewatch it. The Clone Wars most certainly does not. Rebels does. I'll look forward to picking up this first season once it drops or is up on Netflix or both.

But no, the worst comes in the last scene:

Darth Vader himself comes to hunt down Kanan and his group.

Seriously, Vader will not stop until he has killed him. How do they want to avoid it? And that the second season is a constant running from a group of SDs?

Assuming he is there to hunt him down - Vader often got sent to places to 'inspire' the local Imperial forces to do a better job. He's also there because it has been shown that there is a wider, organised, rebellion starting.

I do believe folks offering me rebuttals that don't hold water, ignoring some of the series' faults, and claiming it is better than "Clone Wars" are deluding themselves.

I wouldn't say it's better than TCW. I was pretty PO'd when Disney cancelled it. What I will miss about TCW are the dark edge, the passing nod to the fact that those who grew up with Star Wars are adults now and wouldn't mind more adult themes, and most of all, the budget and time and motivation to create vistas worthy of the Star Wars galaxy.

However, Rebels is all we got, and the budget has shrunk. Being cranky about it doesn't help anyone.

But... Those people who genuinely like "Rebels" and are connecting to the characters in some way? Or those who don't mind the gimmicky tech or kid-friendly characters and dialogue? Or those who like the idea of Jedi in hiding everywhere within the Star Wars universe between Episodes III and IV? And, finally, those who don't mind the slow burn of the series thus far? Hey, different strokes for different folks.

Yep, I like the characters, did from the beginning. The tech is no more or less gimmicky than anything else we've seen. I like the idea of many Jedi-in-hiding...it's a vast galaxy and I don't need to take throw-away statements in the movies as a kind of gospel, in fact I take them with a grain of salt. And no, I don't mind the slow burn...it's called "character development".

I would have preferred TCW to have run its course, but Rebels is satisfactory so far.

Hey Harlock, it's not that we don't like you because of your opinion on the series, its kind of the way you present your opinions, it comes across, at least to me as a tad douchey, and really not a 'to each there own' way of looking at things. Just my two centicreds.

Hey Harlock, it's not that we don't like you because of your opinion on the series, its kind of the way you present your opinions, it comes across, at least to me as a tad douchey, and really not a 'to each there own' way of looking at things.

Well said.

Probably not as well said:

If you're expressing your opinion in such a way to purposely infuriate others, then it smells of troll. If you just naturally come across this way with no intention, then it smells of something else. Either way the repairs need to be done in your hangar, not ours.

The TL,DR Translation....I hate the show and anyone else who doesn't agree with me is an idiot.

Not necessarily.

I do believe folks offering me rebuttals that don't hold water, ignoring some of the series' faults, and claiming it is better than "Clone Wars" are deluding themselves.

But... Those people who genuinely like "Rebels" and are connecting to the characters in some way? Or those who don't mind the gimmicky tech or kid-friendly characters and dialogue? Or those who like the idea of Jedi in hiding everywhere within the Star Wars universe between Episodes III and IV? And, finally, those who don't mind the slow burn of the series thus far? Hey, different strokes for different folks.

But don't try to sell yourself and everyone else on the line that "that cigar is not really a cigar."

Make sense?

Still 12.000+ people and 3233 Stormtroopers awake...

I don't get it. How can you get fussy about these issues and still be a Star Wars fan? None of it was any different from E4 and running around the Death Star.

You mean the Death Star that had been ordered by Grand Moff 'Landed an assault shuttle on a group of demonstrator' Tarkin to harrass but let the tresspassers go so they could track them to their hidden base and blow it the hell up?

I really hate when people use that to imply incompetence.

I cannot find during a quick search any new numbers for Star Destroyers and their personnel, so i can only go with the old numbers. I assume Disney/Filoni won't change them unless it is necessary.

37.085 men and women work on an SD I, and a legion/division of 9700 Stormtroopers serves there as well.

That matches what I found for FFG numbers at http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/1247/

Also, if you look closely, not all of those ships are CR-90s. At least one of them is a Pelta-class frigate, used by the Republic Navy during the Clone Wars.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Pelta-class_frigate

Looks similar to the CR-90, but it is different.

That must be the ship they show at the end of the “Rebels Recon #14” episode at

I did a freeze frame of the ships in hyperspace after they escaped....they're all CR90's

I did several freeze-frames throughout the combat and after they escaped into hyperspace. There are three CR-90s, each with slightly different paint jobs, the Gozanti transport, and the Ghost. No Peltas.

But it looks like they will have a Pelta in season 2, if the Rebel Recon #14 episode is any measure.

Just looking at his posts, they're nothing but flame bait without a single constructive element

I REALLY want to know what you're smoking. And then please ask you to get me in touch with your dealer. (Maybe then I'll be the good little poster that I'm supposed to be ... you know, according to Mr. Morningfire.)

The TL,DR Translation....I hate the show and anyone else who doesn't agree with me is an idiot.

Not necessarily.

I do believe folks offering me rebuttals that don't hold water, ignoring some of the series' faults, and claiming it is better than "Clone Wars" are deluding themselves.

But... Those people who genuinely like "Rebels" and are connecting to the characters in some way? Or those who don't mind the gimmicky tech or kid-friendly characters and dialogue? Or those who like the idea of Jedi in hiding everywhere within the Star Wars universe between Episodes III and IV? And, finally, those who don't mind the slow burn of the series thus far? Hey, different strokes for different folks.

But don't try to sell yourself and everyone else on the line that "that cigar is not really a cigar."

Make sense?

I don't see why you're a "troll" just for not liking Rebels, nor do I think that TL;DR of your post that someone gave was fair. I like Rebels. I don't think it's as good as TCW yet, but it might be as good or better as TCW when it started off. The thing with TCW is that it got really good over time so one must be careful what one compares it to if seeking a fair comparison. Rebels also has the same primary person behind it as TCW so I think we can expect a similar level of characterization and quality going forward. Maybe better as I understand Dave Filoni isn't bound by the Whim of Lucas which many keep saying is an arbitrary and destructive thing. So we will see.

In Rebels favour, the voice acting is very good. The plots are a little light so far, but we will see how that develops. They could do with a longer length for each episode. The animation is less to my liking than TCW. Whilst to begin with I didn't like TCW animation finding it rather puppet-like, it grew on me and as the animators built up their library of characters and ships I think it freed them up to really work on the quality of what they wanted. If I'm not mistaken, Anakin changes physically throughout the series growing broader and his face becomes more complex (and angry). The animation in Rebels is a less puppet-like. People move smoothly and in some ways the models are more realistic. They're NOT realistic, but they look a great deal less like computer models and more like actual cartoons. However, I actually prefer the slight uncanny valley of TCW to the smooth over-simplification of Rebels. TCW also had rich and copious background detail. Rebels distinctly does not. Perhaps that will change with later seasons as they build up their model library.

I don't feel the characters are as rich in Rebels. Despite the great voice work. Hera is exceptional for the voice acting, imo. The Inquisitor was good also.

So for me, I don't yet find Rebels matches TCW for quality. But I do think it's early days. And more to the point, I feel, is that it should be viewed as a good thing. The alternative to Rebels is not more seasons of TCW. That already reached not one but two beautiful endings (Ashoka's leaving and Yoda's journey). The alternative to Rebels, is not having it. And that would be a terrible shame.

Just looking at his posts, they're nothing but flame bait without a single constructive element

I REALLY want to know what you're smoking. And then please ask you to get me in touch with your dealer. (Maybe then I'll be the good little poster that I'm supposed to be ... you know, according to Mr. Morningfire.)

It was almost like you wanted to prove his point....

Oh come on. Someone isn't allowed a little snark when they've just been told that their posts are nothing but flamebait and that none of them have a single constructive element? And the parts that you omitted where someone calls on others to castigate Harlock as a troll and asks everyone to ignore him from here on? That doesn't earn someone a pass if they respond defensively? When they get referred to as "it" and that it should "slither back under its rock"? You want to condemn someone for getting annoyed by that?

Seriously, I've just read back through this thread. Here is Harlock's first post on the subject: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/123049-spoilers-star-wars-rebels-thoughts/page-29#entry1475200

There are no personal attacks in there implied or otherwise. It's a list of pros and cons for Rebels and a conclusion that they don't like it much but they'll carry on watching and see how it goes. Then a little bit later you get a post from Desslock which is fairly challenging but no personal attacks, just points made with a little dash of sarcasm. Harlock responds in kind - similarly challenging but again no personal attacks or trolling. Just a healthy argument between the two. Then it starts to go South. You get a post from TakeshiMasaki talking about how Harlock "can't handle it" and calling his post "the funniest BS in this thread". That is then followed by this:

Hey guys, probably best to just treat Harlock999 as the troll that it is and ignore it. Much like ErikB/Slypheed and evileeyore, it'll go away once it realizes nobody's going to dance to its tune.

Just looking at his posts, they're nothing but flame bait without a single constructive element.

Again, just ignore it and it'll eventually slither back under its rock.

Insults, calls to ostracize someone, baseless accusations... Harlock hadn't insulted anyone at this point. And we get Donovan Morningfire going straight to full on nuclear-insults for no good reason. Honestly, the behaviour and way people are ganging up in this thread is nauseating and there is NO justification for Donovan's post. And now you have just criticized Harlock for responding (in far less strong terms, it should be noted) to it, whilst Donovan gets a whole bunch of people clicking "Like". "Like" on a post that out of the blue belittles and insults someone in the strongest terms and hopes they leave the community.

I am done with this thread. This is awful, schoolyard behaviour.

It probably riled me up just as much as it did Dono when Harlock started pushing his opinion as a fact and made it seem that you were a person of lesser taste if you don't agree with him. On top of that the arguments against pretty much everything in Rebels put forward would all have been applicable to pretty much anything in Star Wars canon.

It probably riled me up just as much as it did Dono when Harlock started pushing his opinion as a fact and made it seem that you were a person of lesser taste if you don't agree with him. On top of that the arguments against pretty much everything in Rebels put forward would all have been applicable to pretty much anything in Star Wars canon.

Everyone has their own tastes. If someone posts that a character is annoying to them or says it annoys them to have endless bad guys who can't shoot someone ten feet in front of them, then I may or may not be bothered by the same things, but I put it down as their opinion. I don't think everything has to be prefaced with 'The following is my opinion and has not been peer-reviewed for objective accuracy.' It's kind of obvious. Especially when it's something that actually is fairly factual (the stormtroopers actually hit something about one in a thousand shots) and simply a statement that the poster doesn't like this. There is no excuse for calling for someone to be ignored, hope they leave our community and making baseless accusations or referring to them as "it". That's way out of line.

There is no excuse for calling for someone to be ignored...

If the option is between "ignore the person that's aggravating you" or "engage in an flame war that draws moderator attention," then ignore becomes the sensible option. And since Harlock went out of his way to be fairly belligerent about TCW's alleged superiority to completely derail a thread that was about a fan-produced sourcebook for Rebels, I really don't see anything constructive in his posts. He/she/it isn't as bad as ErikB/Sylpheed was, but thus far only by a slim margin.

I've read Harlock's various posts, and all I'm seeing is a TCW fanboy that can't accept that said series is over and Lucasfilm/Disney has moved onto a new series that was already in the process of being designed while TCW was on the air. Or for all the belly-aching about how terrible Rebels is turns a blind eye to numerous faults that TCW had.

As others have said, several of his posts read as out and out belligerent for no reason than to be belligerent. So to me, his posts aren't worth reading, and as such I'm ignoring them.

There is no excuse for calling for someone to be ignored...

If the option is between "ignore the person that's aggravating you" or "engage in an flame war that draws moderator attention," then ignore becomes the sensible option.

But you didn't ignore them. You wrote a vitriolic post that called on everyone to shun them until they left the community, called them insulting names and more. That's nobody's definition of ignoring someone if you don't like their opinions. As to "belligerent" read the posts - they made no personal attacks, you began those.

to completely derail a thread that was about a fan-produced sourcebook for Rebels, I really don't see anything constructive in his posts.

The topic of this thread is the Rebels TV series. It's not "about a fan-produced sourcebook for Rebels". We've all been using it to discuss the TV series.

Well, i for one will try to follow the second season.

Should they (continue to) do things i can't stomach i'll simply state that and stop watching.

The show is not all bad, i'm just not their target demographic and therefore displeased with the tone.

Here's to me hoping that the creators take their audience more serious/mature.

I cannot find during a quick search any new numbers for Star Destroyers and their personnel, so i can only go with the old numbers. I assume Disney/Filoni won't change them unless it is necessary.37.085 men and women work on an SD I, and a legion/division of 9700 Stormtroopers serves there as well.

That matches what I found for FFG numbers at http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/1247/

I think the crew and trooper of a star destroyer is significantly lower than any previous amount. We've finally seen another inside location, besides the bridge and brig, of a star destroyer - the reactor room. It looks to me t be at least 5 stories high, and mostly empty space. Considering this conflicts with previous books showing the layout, the Star Destroyer may be a smaller crew. Consisting of mostly anti ship and bombardment purposes.

The old (and often current) have lots of info that is contradicted, even by the movies. The RPG's past and present tell us that there are soldiers in the empire that are not stormtroopers. Yet, not in one video game I have played, novel or comic I have read, any official or fan movie/show has shown any indication of anything other than stormtroopers being the standard troop. Heck, they are on guard duty everywhere.

So quoting RPG stats as gospel or canon is about as useful as holding your breath in the vacuum of space.

If a star destroyer has a crew of 5000 I'm okay with that. As to Sabine's bombs, whose to say ion bbs are not really powerful? We've seen a ion disruptor take an AT-DP in one shot, and a ground based ion lay out an entire star destroyer. How powerful are these weapons then? Possibly very. Even the malevolence class warship had a super powerful ion weapon.

It probably riled me up just as much as it did Dono when Harlock started pushing his opinion as a fact and made it seem that you were a person of lesser taste if you don't agree with him. On top of that the arguments against pretty much everything in Rebels put forward would all have been applicable to pretty much anything in Star Wars canon.

Everyone has their own tastes. If someone posts that a character is annoying to them or says it annoys them to have endless bad guys who can't shoot someone ten feet in front of them, then I may or may not be bothered by the same things, but I put it down as their opinion. I don't think everything has to be prefaced with 'The following is my opinion and has not been peer-reviewed for objective accuracy.' It's kind of obvious. Especially when it's something that actually is fairly factual (the stormtroopers actually hit something about one in a thousand shots) and simply a statement that the poster doesn't like this. There is no excuse for calling for someone to be ignored, hope they leave our community and making baseless accusations or referring to them as "it". That's way out of line.

It is not so much that he stated his opinion as fact but went so far as to make nasty comments about those who didn't agree with those perceived facts. I get what you are saying but I do feel that there was a definitive aspect of trolling going on as well...

to completely derail a thread that was about a fan-produced sourcebook for Rebels, I really don't see anything constructive in his posts.

The topic of this thread is the Rebels TV series. It's not "about a fan-produced sourcebook for Rebels". We've all been using it to discuss the TV series.

I was referring to an entirely separate thread, NOT this one.

In fact, here's the EXACT thread that he derailed with his belligerent/trollish posts about TCW being superior to Rebels .

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/136166-spark-of-rebellion-fan-made-sourcebook-in-the-making/

Note that NO part of that thread was an invite to discuss which show was superior or why, but instead to discuss interest and ideas for a fan-produced supplement about the currently airing Star Wars CGI series.

As for the all-important question of What am I smoking and where can I get some?

Dude, I live in Washington. You cant cross the street without seeing someone smoking out. As for what, might I recommend the Beast Mode strain? That **** will hit you like Marshawn Lynch tackling a 90 year old grandmother.

As for the all-important question of What am I smoking and where can I get some?

Dude, I live in Washington. You cant cross the street without seeing someone smoking out. As for what, might I recommend the Beast Mode strain? That **** will hit you like Marshawn Lynch tackling a 90 year old grandmother.

I live in washington too, but i have yet to see even 1 person smoking weed anywhere but concerts.

Back on topic, I like the show, and have had fun with it. I didn't watch TCW when it was being broadcast but do have it on Blu-ray and I have been trying hard to catch up there. So far i have just gotten to a few episodes into the second season and season 1 all finished.

Rebels is fun and I hope it continues to get my Players to ask questions I have to rule on for the game... "Can I get a lightsaber like the Inquisitor?" "How can I get something like the Ghost?"

Fun times.