Hi guys, here's a rough start on Colonial Endeavours that I've been working on.

It tries to take into account Resources, and how much of it is being exploited, and isn't overly reliant on Size to determine the Profit Factor of the Colony. I've already trimmed it to make it less cumbersome.

I started this with the whole Dynasty Fleet Operations rules since I realized that I needed something like this to make it all work.

CE 0.1 is available here! Google Drive .

Please leave any and all comments and your thoughts on these rules. Am I on the right track, is it still too crunchy or not enough?

Well, the first part seems fine, it's basically an outline of a colonial endeavor. Nothing there that isn't already covered in the endeavor rules.

The second part seems more-or-less fine to me, at least in first read, but it seems like too much effort to re-invent without any major improvement. Wouldn't it be easier to expand and/or modify out from the SoI rules instead of building up from almost-scratch?

It also essentially requires to to push a colony into one industrial subset. This is good in allowing you to make an Agricultural colony, but doesn't allow for a general or universal colony (like the one on Svard itself). I do like decoupling size from profitability though.

On a related note, I've actually started looking into using the "colony" rules to deal with a couple other situations my RT group is in. Specifically the ownership of a "quadrant of extra-territorial land" inside the capital city of a developed imperial world, and their "numerous holding on footfall" as well as his wife's "holdings on Scintilla", all of which seem like they should be able to be approximated by the colony rules.

Also on the subject of Crunch, it's very much a YMMV issue related to your group, or even specific players in your group. I and one other guy in our group will happily lay out the entirety of the physical colony, aggregate costs and productivity with varying rates of resource exploitation, etc. Hell, we practically did just that for an Ars Magica game. Others in the group would happily make an availability roll if it ever became important if the colony happened to have extra food this year. So yeah, how crunch-heavy is your group, and how much do they work on such things when the game isn't in session?

Thanks.

By the second part do you mean the Colony Endeavour itself and the Attributes? I wavered between adding more or less detail to it, but formalizing how the Colony grows, whether or not it generates Profit that year, and how it invests its resources was really the important part (to me). Handwaving takes its toll.

Oh, and a "Basic" Colony is 3 Profit Factor and is just that, a generic universal Colony.

I lean towards heavy crunch, at least with the planning and so on. The players in my group are also keen to contribute and plan stuff out. Our entire campaign could very well just be establishing new colonies, sprinkled with the occasional war, and we'd be perfectly content.

Well Marwynn,

Ok, personally I like it, but it's real crunchy. I like crunch myself, being an old-time grognard, but I find few other people do. I'm playing in a game right now that is mostly colonizing and I don't think our group would like that much crunch.

I've been working on a system, too, and it is similar in many respects to what you have. I stuck with all the SoI qualifiers and descriptors, and like you have done, got more in-depth and crunchy. Right now, I'm looking for ways to abstract it back to simple terms. I took a break from design after my first attempt at simplification. Heh. It didn't taste good.

In the end, the only thing that really matters is the PF the group gets from it, which is largely going to be realized from exports of basic industry (that's "basic industry" as in the economic terminology) and agriculture (which is a type of basic industry), with notable exceptions (i.e. archeotech, xenotech, and unusual natural and human resources). Aside from the PF, the only thing most groups probably want to know is the extent of time they will have to invest (i.e. how many trips back and forth to industrial and forge worlds is this going to take?).

I won't be abstracting the defenses much, I don't think. A space dock or space station is laid out much as a starship is, and well-deserving of the same love and attention we give our ships. Orbital defense platforms are pretty much the same. I think I'll abstract the PDF as undefined companies or battalions and assume an Imperial Guard constant of some sort, and give it BFK definitions.

And yes, Quick, I too think that population needs to be separated from PF, or at least rethought. Pop has to be fed and provided for, and in the end its real effect isn't the limit of industrialization possible, but a lowering of labor costs. Still, this would follow the Law of Diminshing Returns instead of Increasing Returns as SoI has it.

Originally, I wanted 3 colony stats: Agriculture, Industry, and Commerce. The first two are necessary, but the last can actually be kept track of as how many ships with cargo (or passenger) components stops at the colony in a given year and that's probably not a constant. I found government a necessary factor. This can also be simplified to a Repressive government that squeezes the maximum out of the people, or a Permissive government that encourages more Commerce. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that, though I like the idea of governors with an actual personality.

I saw the employment of the POP as fueling the industry and agriculture, the remainder being unemployed (if any) and restless, adding Misfortunes to the colony. Runaway Misfortunes can bring about Revolution. Then you have to consider the Service side of the economy. The rule of thumb is that every job in basic industry creates 2 other jobs. You could even institute a type of welfare system to emply people if you didn't want Misfortunes piling up to Revolution stage.

The major consideration is environment. Atmosphere and climate can be contained in a sealed environment, albeit at greater expense. Water can be shipped in via comets (think ice miners), also at greater expense. Gravity would be more tricky to deal with.

I like the idea of using skill checks instead of keeping track of incoming factors. For every load of X and Y your governor or whomever makes a Charm (?) check to see if they can upgrade the colony. That way you don't have to keep records. That's the kind of crunch that turns most people off.

Ok, now I'm babbling. I'll see if I can get more done this weekend. Maybe we can collaborate.

Yeah that's be cool. This is all without any experience in the colonial rules, so any perspective would be useful.

Well, as I said, your system is a great start for those who like crunch. I like crunch, but my experience is largely with people who want someone else to keep track of the crunch, and GMs don't need even more stuff to keep track of.

I've moved back to a system where I'm more the ST who narrates and arbitrates, than a GM that creates and defines a sandbox. It leaves me more time for building an atmosphere in the game. I don't need as much time to spend on encounters, NPCs, and other health-food crunch.

So, for those interested in a more abstract colony system, here's what I've put together in the last few hours. I originally went crunchy, too, but I've simplified and abstracted.

Colony Endeavors

1. Starts with exploration of site

2. Initial equipment and colonists needed are dependent on the physical characteristics of that site. Inhospitable worlds might require colonists to live indoors, requiring the transport of more infrastructure and fewer colonists. The dynasty might have to negotiate with the governors of several worlds to get all the things needed to start a new colony.

3. The actual transport of colonists, equipment, and supplies must occur, either with the Dynasty itself doing the legwork, or with contracted free captains or other dynasties. Planting the colony nets the dynasty nothing. They now have a colony with a Population and PF of 0.

4. Growth depends on commerce. Ships must continue to visit the colony, bringing new equipment, supplies, and colonists, in order for that colony to grow. Growth checks are made every time a ship makes port at the colony, whether it’s a dynasty ship or an independent. If the colony has been instructed not to trade with outsiders then this represents illegal contraband and smuggling operations, or corruption. Growth can represent many things, but the final determination is the governor’s competence, so a skill check must be made. This could be a Logic check, or Tech Use, Charm, Barter, or many other possibilities, depending on the nature of the colony and the nature of the visiting ship. Bonuses are applied to the check for appropriate ship components, such as cargo components or passenger quarters. These bonuses should be proportional to the AP bonus that would normally be received. Penalties are applied to the check for inhospitable worlds (the more inhospitable, the larger the penalty). Success on the Growth check results in the colony growing one of its characteristics, chosen by the GM as appropriate for the visiting ship’s components (in the case of an independent), or chosen by the dynasty (if visited by a dynasty ship or one of its contractors), though still within reason based on the ship’s components. Alternately, a successful check could result in a new colony being established in another territory on the planet.

Colony Characteristics

1. Population – Population can be thought of as a resource, but most work is automated so it takes relatively few people to run farms and factories. The major effect of Population is to reduce the costs of labor, effectively increasing profits, and thus PF. This would follow the Law of Diminishing Returns, however, so while a POP of 1 grants PF 1, you would need 2 more POP to increase PF again, and 3 more POP to increase it yet again.

2. Agriculture – Agriculture doesn’t represent a resource the colony needs to feed itself, but resources it can produce for export. Food grown in sealed environments will be more expensive to produce, and while it might make a colony self-sufficient it won’t be profitable for export. Very few worlds can support this type of endeavor (unless your universe survives on refined hydrocarbon exports to hive worlds, which is very reasonable, in which case there will be more worlds with agricultural exports). Anytime Agriculture is increased, the PF of the colony is also increased (assuming a market for the goods, of course).

3. Mines – Mines are limited in absolute numbers by the scarcity of minerals. You could give this a number based on Stars of Inequities’ categories (i.e. minimal, sustainable, etc.) or its absolute numbers (e.g. plentiful industrial, 120). Whichever method you choose is the maximum number of mines that can be established. Each mine grants 1 PF (bonuses for ornamentals, radioactives, and exotics). Once again, a market for the goods is necessary to collect PF, which means a relatively safe trade route to the market.

4. Manufactorums – Manufactorums need minerals to work with, mostly industrial minerals (exceptions could be made, but…). Figure that 1 mine can support 1 manufactorum. Each manufactorum adds 1 PF to the colony. Of course, if that manufactorum is using all the produce of the mines, those mines are no longer exporting goods for profit, but figure that manufactured goods are worth at least twice as much as raw minerals and hand-wave the fractions away. Of course, if those manufactorums are producing goods like Basilisks the dynasty might want to make use of the goods, in which case they’d no longer be exporting anything for profit, hurting PF. Still, the dynasty might just levy a temporary tax on the businesses (granting a bonus to Acquisition rolls without hurting the dynasty’s PF).

5. Research Stations – These should be handled in more detail. They are installed in archeotech and xenos “ruins” to “mine” for very defined goods that can be generated by Stars of Inequity.

PF & Misfortunes

1. PF – Profit is determined by adding up the colony’s characteristic.

2. Misfortunes – These types of misfortunes can be story plots the players can search out and solve. Alternately, they can be something the Governor is trying to solve when not busy growing the colony. Misfortunes happen anytime the colony fails a Growth check or every month (year? needs playtesting) the Population is more than twice the PF. They also happen anytime an unwanted ship visits the colony. The GM should feel free to generate more of them based on local conditions and the meta-plots happening behind the scenes. They don’t reduce PF the way normal Misfortunes do. Instead, they accrue, giving the GM an idea of the prosperity, loyalty, and general feeling of the colony. If the number or effects of Misfortunes ever exceed a colony’s PF a revolt occurs. This will bring down a dynasty’s PF if something isn’t resolved quickly.

So I do not know if Marwynn is still around but I was looking at your version of colony development and I like it but the PDF file I found seems to be very incomplete did you ever finish the rules. I like the crunchy nature of your rules but I can not find how to derive sustenance or how to produce more of it other then maybe a colony upgrade endeavor. If in this time you have completed the rules and the colony upgrades please send me a copy if not give me more details on how you created the system so I can add to it.

I'm still here. Though I only check once every few days... when did we get this nice shiny forum upgrade?

I did have some more crunch, but our game--despite my group's insistence on being all about colonies--has been very much a free form one. So I haven't really touched the rules much.

Sustenance was a "base" attribute dependent on the type of planet. Specific upgrades, like corpse starch reclamation systems, farms, or specific buildings like starports could provide more Sustenance. I used it as a limit on Size, applying a penalty to Order, Production, Piety, and so on if it didn't meet the Size.

Also, trade could bring in stuff like this through player-run Endeavours with each 100 points offering 1 point of Sustenance. Made Agriworlds doable and perhaps even essential as the maintenance costs on some farms (depending on the type of world they were on) might prove prohibitive.

Wish I had more concrete stuff.

I see can you give me your baselines for your upgrades and I plan to overhaul your system so its more fleshed out along with some other partial attempts of improving colony stuff. Using your own rules how would I go about setting up this farms or industry. I am also assuming that Production has to be allocated to different facilities and that Production limits what a colony can do in some cases.