As it was slow at work today, I started thinking about SWToR - specifically, the Sith Warrior story arc and his Jedi apprentice. Now you can tempt Jaesa over to the dark side, but there's also the possibility where she remains light, especially if you're playing the Warrior as honorable.

And then I thought - I wonder what kind of conflict that would earn someone. If you're not training specifically the hate and anger and whatnot, could you have a mentor that plays for the other team without gaining conflict?

It would make for some interesting internally conflicted (conflict small C, not capital C) role playing. . . .

There is an interesting fact that can interest you.

In the book of the Dark Side from d20 there was the "Dark Side Compendium" from Palpatine's teachings. One of the parts consists on explanation that (not exactly) someone under the teachings of the Dark Side involuntary (at the beginning) can add his/her own believings (as imposition) on Mind Tricks due the influence of the training if not succedd on a Will DC.

Exporting that essence here. You can make that due to dark teachings, EVERY (or almost) thing that person do can add Conflict, because the fall to te dark side is always, or use to, be progressive and "logical". "If you want "Peace" impose your will with does "evildoers" and prevent another attacks destroying them before they can hurt innocent people from the Emp... Republic" XD

Unless the apprentice has directly some kind of sociopathy that enjoys kill or make suffer beings, and the master is "sutile", then you can add that fact, that almost everything can add Conflict due to the focus of the result.

As Palpatine so quietly told to Anakin... "he cut your arm and now you seek for revenge... it's the way of nature..."

Beware of the Dark Side, isn't always a bad guy with dark robes with an evil laughing on a top of a dark storming tower XD

Per the RAW this is effectively already handled. Such a character might be inclined to start "Dark Side" instead of "Light Side" (due to being trained to use it) but the actual conflict gain would be non-existent. Choosing to stand by while someone commits an "evil" act (I think its 4+ on the conflict scale, but it is spelled out) is the only way to passively gain conflict. You can, of course, hack the system; but being around someone who uses or is Dark Side is not itself worth conflict.

The fact that you'd be gaining Conflict would be the thing that would make it interesting and dramatic.

Just the fact of gaining Conflict isn't a bad thing. The interesting thing would be whether the character started adopting their mentor's approach to life or whether they stuck with their better instincts and pushed themselves to act in such a way that, over time, their Morality would still trend upward.

At least that's how it seems to me. To have a light-side Force user trained by a Dark Side or evil mentor and NOT bring Conflict into it would seem to defeat the purpose

So the big money question - what levels of conflict would that generate? I imagine that it would be pretty low, being a slow and seductive progression and not a +10 WHAM hit - depending on the style of training, of course. Murdering and eating kittens to prove that you are worthy would be worth more than stern, disciplined mental excercises.

I'd think it would just depend on the circumstances and on the specific actions the apprentice took.

For example, have you read "Heir to the Empire"?

Luke meets Force user Joruus C'baoth, who adopts him as a student and starts "training" him.

Some of C'baoth's training strikes Luke as a little harsh, especially the way C'baoth adjudicates disputes between the townspeople where he lives. C'baoth is really draconian and punishes one of the townspeople with Force lightning.

That's a great example of a case where the student could be compelled to either use lightning on somebody at their master's request (and gain some Conflict), or resist.

My feeling is that if the character is being trained by a Dark sider then they will be getting Knowing inaction conflict unless somehow they don't know that the trainer is Dark side and have somehow missed all of the tip-offs, and given the likely training that a Dark side person will provide they will get conflict for using the Dark side points that the training will likely have them using since any Force user who is of the Dark side will train others in the use of the Dark not the light.

Some of that might be mitigated if they are not voluntarily training with the bad guy.

As to the situation of Jaesa, that particular plot is a bit weak for me, quite interesting to begin with but even the most honorable Sith Warrior should eventually do enough to either pull her to the Dark side or drive her away (possibly including getting her killed).

Just my thoughts

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This is a topic that I've been pondering as well. One of my characters has recently been recruited as a Neophyte for a Sith cult, and is being trained. There is no deception here: he knows who they are, and they know he is undertaking the training because he has no real choice in the matter (literally, "Tea and cake or death").

Now, he's one character, so he only gets a portion of the play time, interspersed between activities of the rest of the group, but I try to give him plenty of opportunity to take conflict. And because the player is roleplaying a smuggler who became a Force user, he has little compunction against taking conflict.

Despite this, his Morality is steadily increasing. Yes, he's been rolling well on that 1d10, and that can't last forever, but he's in the mid-80's now, with no signs of slowing.

Of course, so far he's just being wooed by the Sith cult. They're giving him a place, making him part of their Shockzone team, hooking him up with a pretty girl, giving him servants who call him "My Lord", and generally making his life very luxurious, at least outside of grueling workouts and studies. And when he's grown used to it all is when the demands will begin, and the true tests of character will occur.

Apologies: I only skimmed this thread, my attention is in a slap fight elsewhere on the boards... but...

My personal feelings on Gaining Conflict: Characters should only generate Conflict for things they knowingly do.

Maybe, just maybe, for things they later come to understand they did (like learning that "enemy encampment" they bombed from orbit was in fact a Puppy and Kitten Orphanage), that strongly violate their sense of Morals.

Not from getting bad advice from a Mentor they don't even know is Teh Ebils.

Maybe keep it similar to Mentor training. If they decide to take the 5xp off new powers under this mentor, they also get a degree of conflict to represent learning the "wrong" way. Otherwise they can just pay the full amount. This is in addition to any "inaction" conflict for things they might witness.

Well in this hypothetical (maybe) situation, the Force Using Intern would be fully aware of the mentor's darker leanings. That's even if she bites at the idea at all. She might go "Begone with you, evil doer!" and shun the training all together.

We'll see if I use this idea at my table or not. I'm still mulling over things for the weekend.

Well in this hypothetical (maybe) situation, the Force Using Intern would be fully aware of the mentor's darker leanings. That's even if she bites at the idea at all. She might go "Begone with you, evil doer!" and shun the training all together.

We'll see if I use this idea at my table or not. I'm still mulling over things for the weekend.

A lot of people are referencing the inaction thing as guaranteed conflict, but unless the character is doing something significant that the character knows about it doesn't work that way. Simply being Sith or being Dark Side is not itself a source of conflict for anyone. If you really want to, as other people mentioned, you could do something with a point of conflict here or there to represent using the Dark Side in practice but the narrative implication of the mechanics is that the method of the Dark Side and Light Side are entirely compatible; it's just a different way of accessing the energy.

I didn't mention it specifically, but at my table I'm not awarding conflict whenever the character is around the Sith instructor, or even just for doing what he's told, unless it would generate conflict through the "normal" means.

Although it hadn't occurred to me that he might take 5xp off the cost of a new Force power since he technically has a mentor, I'm not sure whether that would actually cause conflict. I can see the argument both ways:

For: The Sith is specifically training him to use anger, fear, and agression. The mentor is very impatient, so taking the "quick and easy way" is an essential part of the training. Ergo, darkside.

Against: That's not how the rules actually work, as evileeyore and T3CHN0Shaman point out. Well, the rules are vague, but generally you have to make a choice and do something to generate conflict. The exception is the Darkside Heal resurrection power.

And then I thought - I wonder what kind of conflict that would earn someone. If you're not training specifically the hate and anger and whatnot, could you have a mentor that plays for the other team without gaining conflict?

This brings up perhaps my biggest beef with the Morality system -- sometimes, it's a little too transparent.

Against: That's not how the rules actually work, as evileeyore and T3CHN0Shaman point out. Well, the rules are vague, but generally you have to make a choice and do something to generate conflict. The exception is the Darkside Heal resurrection power.

but then, basically that means they're channeling the Dark Side, which is an active Conflict generator.

Spending a great deal of time around a mentor from the dark side could add an automatic dark side token to the destiny pool, just as it would for a PC.

Furthermore, the mentor would be pushing the character to succeed, which would mean that if a force die roll came up all black, the mentor would likely punish the character for not using them.

The dark side mentor would likely not know all of the force talents, restricting the potential avenues for instruction. Your PC is sure to gain some conflict from being taught Harm instead of Heal, for instance.

The RAW give plenty of avenues for a dark side mentor to subtly warp a student into a dark side force user, something that fits the tone of the game very, very well.

Also you could make the character perform modified discipline (fear) checks (or other checks depending on the action), upgrading the difficulty with effects per FaD Fear Leads to Anger pg. 223 if you wanted to give the player some control over emotional states instead of just using the conflict chart. Upgraded difficulty would represent staying in control where as failure with enough disadvantages/despair would have him give in to those feelings and produce conflict equal to the difficulty.