I've run a vader, defender firespray list before and it did quite well. Squad leader on vader, naked bounty hunter and vessery with VI.

Worked really well. Vader stays relatively close and hands off actions to modify the firesprays shots. Vader himself target locks on vessery's intended target, this means both your defender and firespray get consistent tl+focus attacks.

Without fail, vader is targeted last - and a late-game vader is the best vader.

Give it a shot. Not sure how you could jam a phantom in there tho. Not sure id want to try. Vader and phantom occupy too-similar a role, your defender would be the only anvil and would be focus fired down pretty fast i would think , leaving you with two flankers - one squishy and the other toothless.

Ywing ace, you didn't I'll specify you wanted Vader+ defender in the starting post, the clearer you are, the higher quality of response you'll get.

I'll address your question more speciffically: I think the list has a serious weaknesses in that it's two flankers (Vader and Echo)are respectively under gunned and potentially extremely vulnerable.

Echo weighs in at a hefty 34 points, but for a significant slice of the PS scale he is no tougher than an arc dodging Z95, and there are good pilots that see play (like vessery, Garven, Phenir) who will be taking much easier shots on him than they would do otherwise, since both his arc dodging and ACD are compromised by the low pilot skill. Echo needs VI for any competitive play.

The delta is a fine ship but overall I feel the squad brings a small number of attack dice, and that the loss of Echo early would leave it lacking the firepower to have the potential to claw back the situation.

Vader is an ideal ordnance carrier: tough, high ps with the on board ability to focus+TL and even out manoeuvre. If your looking for a list he can shine in, it would seem a shame not to include the proton rocket.

TIE ADVANCED: · DARTH VADER

Outmaneuver

Proton Rockets

Engine Upgrade

TIE INTERCEPTOR: · TURR PHENNIR

Predator

TIE DEFENDER: DELTA SQUADRON PILOT

Ion Cannon

Alright, considering that you want a team that include Vader and a Defender, here's what I would personally try:

Vader + Squad Leader

Delta Squadron

Lt Lorrir

Backstabber

The idea is, since Vader drawback is being only a 2 dice attacker, make him use Squad Leader at PS 9 on one of his wingmate in a better position to maximize his firepower: making Lorrir do his special Barrel Roll, Backstabber getting out of line to roll one more dice, Defender getting a Target Lock, etc. Since Squad Leader is range 2, that still gives the team enough place to maneuver out of formation.

Vader is the central piece of the team without being the biggest threat himself, so I think it will put your opponent in a tough situation figuring out who to shoot first. If he goes for Vader, you can still turtle up with focus evade this round and be safe with your 3 Hull+2 Shield, he's a defensive monster and hard to catch if he doesn't want to. If he goes against another one, Vader can still use SL to boost or Barrel Him out of danger, or help him turtle up. If the wingmate goes down, there is still 2 other to benefit Vader.

Either way, it should at least be fun to play and make Vader shine.

Ywing ace, you didn't I'll specify you wanted Vader+ defender in the starting post, the clearer you are, the higher quality of response you'll get.

I'll address your question more speciffically: I think the list has a serious weaknesses in that it's two flankers (Vader and Echo)are respectively under gunned and potentially extremely vulnerable.

Echo weighs in at a hefty 34 points, but for a significant slice of the PS scale he is no tougher than an arc dodging Z95, and there are good pilots that see play (like vessery, Garven, Phenir) who will be taking much easier shots on him than they would do otherwise, since both his arc dodging and ACD are compromised by the low pilot skill. Echo needs VI for any competitive play.

The delta is a fine ship but overall I feel the squad brings a small number of attack dice, and that the loss of Echo early would leave it lacking the firepower to have the potential to claw back the situation.

Vader is an ideal ordnance carrier: tough, high ps with the on board ability to focus+TL and even out manoeuvre. If your looking for a list he can shine in, it would seem a shame not to include the proton rocket.

I know I didn't specify at first but even after I clarified people still are posting contrary to what I asked.

Ok, I've decided to revise the squad to this:

Darth Vader

Outmaneuver

Echo

ACD

VI

Delta Squadron Pilot

What should I do with the last 3 points? Rebel Captive? Upgrade of Defenders PS?

TIE ADVANCED: · DARTH VADER

Outmaneuver

Proton Rockets

Engine Upgrade

TIE INTERCEPTOR: · TURR PHENNIR

Predator

TIE DEFENDER: DELTA SQUADRON PILOT

Ion Cannon

I'd probably swap predator for PtL, but that is a pretty good list, the reason I'm not including Proton rockets in my list atm is because I don't have Rebel Aces, and I won't be able to get it in the foreseeable future, 'till the end of the year.

Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)

"Echo" (30)
Decoy (2)
Recon Specialist (3)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Basically you shoot Echo at PS11 and all the goodies associated with that. It's a variant of

Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)

"Echo" (30)
Decoy (2)
Fire-Control System (2)
Recon Specialist (3)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

which has been going on the forums for a while (2 weeks?) I might actually want to try it. Engine upgrade was good on Vader, but sacrificing that to get a Defender might be worth it. The trick is to keep Vader into range 2 of the Phantom (pretty easy to do, even without Engine).

Another variant based on the initial liste:

Vader

Decoy

Engine upgrade

Delta squadron

Echo

Advanced cloaking device

Intelligence agent

The objective would be to use Decoy to boost Echo *if necessary* or the delta squadron if it faces a predator opponent.

The problem with that list is, Vader kinda doesn't have to much firepower there.

That's why you have Echo + Defender. Vader is there to survive and give his blessing (PS11).

Vader Wth engine upgrade and squad tactics (35/36 pts, I don't remember what he starts at)

I like this. It's what I usually use on Vader. Anyone who says Vader in a Tie Advanced isn't good has just bought into the group think of the forums and not flown one for themselves.

I've also had good luck with Vader with a Concussion Missile and a Bomber with one, as well (and a Cluster). It's all about the alpha strike. Use swarm Tactics to give the Bomber the same PS as you to fire and shoot both Concussion Missiles at the same target. Vader usually gets a Focus, too. It's enough to destory or seriously cripple a ship most times.

Also, the Defender is a great ship. I've only done Col. V, though. Just because the Defender isn't as meta-smashing as the Phantom doesn't mean it's a bad ship. It's a mean jouster.