"Draw Closer
Activation: Active (Action)
Ranked: No
Trees: Niman Disciple
Force talent. The character may take a Draw Closer action,
making a Lightsaber (Willpower) melee combat
check against one silhouette 1 (or smaller) target within
medium range and adding a number of º no greater
than Force rating to the check. The character may
spend Ω before resolving the success or failure of the
check to move the target one range band closer to the
character. He may also spend Ω to add ≥ to the combat
check. If the character cannot move his target to
engage him, the combat check automatically misses."

The RAW say nothing about this Talent requireing any ability with the Move Force Power. Therefore if you have this talent but not Move you can use it to move targets closer, but be unable to Move anything else.

Is this really how this is supposed to work?

The Niman Disciple could be compelling the target closer either through the force or by taunting him or dropping his own guard.

It's a specialized use of the force, traditionally through telekinesis (but as Kaosoe said, could be fluffed as other effects). So this talent doesn't require any other powers to function.

There are a couple talents like this (hawk bat swoop, the starship dodgey talent in the warrior career) that create an effect similar to a force power but far more limited in scope and utility, allowing players to get some of the force style goodness and sense of the supernatural w/o having to fully invest in a power if they so choose.

Yeah, having talents that simulate the effects of existing Force powers is nothing new. For instance, EotE has Overwhelm Emotions, which lets the user roll their Force dice on social interaction checks and add successes based upon what sort of check they were making and what the dice came up; if using Charm, you'd apply the LS pips, but if using Coercion, you'd apply the DS pips instead.

In the case of Draw Closer, it probably is meant to be a telekinesis-based effect as kaosae said, but there's nothing stopping the GM from reflavoring it as some other usage of the Force, such as a specialized mind trick, as the means by which the Niman Disciple lures their intended target within range of their attack.

In the case of Draw Closer, it probably is meant to be a telekinesis-based effect as kaosae said, but there's nothing stopping the GM from reflavoring it as some other usage of the Force, such as a specialized mind trick, as the means by which the Niman Disciple lures their intended target within range of their attack.

I don't think it can be a mind trick because you could use it on any target, including those without a mind or incapable of movement, as long as they're no more than silhouette 1. It would have to be TK. It just seems odd for it to be so stong on a 'target' and useless on anything else.

Yeah, having talents that simulate the effects of existing Force powers is nothing new. For instance, EotE has Overwhelm Emotions, which lets the user roll their Force dice on social interaction checks and add successes based upon what sort of check they were making and what the dice came up; if using Charm, you'd apply the LS pips, but if using Coercion, you'd apply the DS pips instead.

And that is an example of talent I think should not be followed on F&D, since it is pretty much does the same thing as a Control Upgrade of Influence. If Force Talents are supposed to be more specific and less powerful than Force Powers, than they should complement whatever a Force Power and its upgrades allow someone to do, not replace it.

The Draw Closer talent, on the other hand, allows someone to perform both a specific use of the Move power and an LS attack as only 1 action, which is great. Also, I would consider to adding the requirement of having the Move power in order to use the talent.

If Force Talents are supposed to be more specific and less powerful than Force Powers, than they should complement whatever a Force Power and its upgrades allow someone to do, not replace it.

The Draw Closer talent, on the other hand, allows someone to perform both a specific use of the Move power and an LS attack as only 1 action, which is great. Also, I would consider to adding the requirement of having the Move power in order to use the talent.

Basically Draw Closer gives the user a free Force Pip spent in Strength and the base Power as well as allowing two Actions to be used simultaneously. Pretty potent, if limited.

* EDIT: Though personally I'm tempted to allow them to use the Talent without those upgrades, just against things the base Move could effect until they train up the upgrades. I'd also consider allowing them to spend more Force Pips to activate more upgrades in Move with the Talent... though that might get out of hand. Hmmm.

TedMaul,

If you re-read the Draw Closer talent, you'll see that you're not entirely correct. The talent allows you pull the target a single range band closer per Force Point, and that if you're not able to pull the target to Engaged, then the attack roll automatically fails. So really, it's only Move's basic power with a Strength Upgrade if you want to be able to make an attack roll, which just so happens to cost 20 XP and has a lot more versatility involved than the talent provides. And even with FR 2, there's no assurance that you're going to get those two Force Points if your target is at Medium Range. And if they're at Short Range, the best you're doing is saving yourself a Maneuver if you do generate that 1 Force point needed. So it's modeately better than Move + Range Upgrade + Strength Upgrade, but it's also far more limited in application, since with those three I can just as easily move the target someplace else, like out in the open so that the ranged attackers in the party can open fire, or put them someplace out of the way (particularly if they're a melee combatant) where they can't attack me or my party members.

The only part I do agree with is requiring the Move power, if the design intent is that said talent relies solely upon telekinesis. Personally, I like that Draw Closer is "power agnostic" and could be described as telekinesis, a brief mental compulsion, or even a quick Force-enhhanced taunt to get the other guy to come into striking range.

TedMaul,

If you re-read the Draw Closer talent, you'll see that you're not entirely correct. The talent allows you pull the target a single range band closer per Force Point, and that if you're not able to pull the target to Engaged, then the attack roll automatically fails. So really, it's only Move's basic power with a Strength Upgrade if you want to be able to make an attack roll, which just so happens to cost 20 XP and has a lot more versatility involved than the talent provides. And even with FR 2, there's no assurance that you're going to get those two Force Points if your target is at Medium Range. And if they're at Short Range, the best you're doing is saving yourself a Maneuver if you do generate that 1 Force point needed. So it's modeately better than Move + Range Upgrade + Strength Upgrade, but it's also far more limited in application, since with those three I can just as easily move the target someplace else, like out in the open so that the ranged attackers in the party can open fire, or put them someplace out of the way (particularly if they're a melee combatant) where they can't attack me or my party members.

I was speaking broadly before, and I do realize that.

What I meant to say was that a Force Talent should not simply be a copycat of what a Force Power can already accomplish (i.e. Overwhelm Emotions), because that pretty much makes the Talent (or a Force Power's upgrades) redundant.

The Draw Closer, IMO, is a actually the opposite of the above, since it allows a specific application of Move, but a more powerful one indeed, since it also allows a combat check.

Basically Draw Closer gives the user a free Force Pip spent in Strength and the base Power as well as allowing two Actions to be used simultaneously. Pretty potent, if limited.

* EDIT: Though personally I'm tempted to allow them to use the Talent without those upgrades, just against things the base Move could effect until they train up the upgrades. I'd also consider allowing them to spend more Force Pips to activate more upgrades in Move with the Talent... though that might get out of hand. Hmmm.

That's exactly how I see Draw Closer working (on a telekinesis basis), and I think that it should be linked to the Move power. But allowing it also to spend FP on Move's all regular uses and upgrades would make it extremely overpowered. Tough, it makes sense to me to allow Draw Closer to work on several targets (i.e. activating Magnitude upgrades). It is looks very Jedi-ish to Force pull several battle droids (minions) and cutting them in half with only one action.

That's exactly how I see Draw Closer working (on a telekinesis basis), and I think that it should be linked to the Move power. But allowing it also to spend FP on Move's all regular uses and upgrades would make it extremely overpowered. Tough, it makes sense to me to allow Draw Closer to work on several targets (i.e. activating Magnitude upgrades). It is looks very Jedi-ish to Force pull several battle droids (minions) and cutting them in half with only one action.

There's a talent that will let you do this already. "The Force is My Ally" .

There's a talent that will let you do this already. "The Force is My Ally" .