One of my players asked me why there were no cybernetics that increased Cunning, Presence, or Willpower.

While it's obvious how a brain implant might improve one's Intellect, I don't find it unreasonable that other implants might increase the other three - they are far more mental than physical.

For example:

CYBERNETIC BRAIN IMPLANT (MOD VII I, MOD X, MOD XI, AND MOD XII)

Mod VIII cybernetic brain implants provide +1 Intelligence. Mod X cybernetic brain implants provide +1 Cunning. Mod XI cybernetic brain implants provide +1 Willpower. Mod XII cybernetic brain implants provide +1 Presence. All cybernetic brain implants come with a comlink and a computer access link. Only one cybernetic brain implant may be installed.

I think of all of these, presence is a stretch and potentially inappropriate. Not saying you can't do it, but I don't think that stat would be as ... viable as it's more the inate magnitism of the character than just a mental ability to frame a good threat (charm, what have you).

In some ways, Presence is physical. How tall you are, how you move, what you're wearing, and so on. But in many ways, Presence is a frame of mind. How you stand, where you look, how you speak and what you say, the personality that you project - is largely dependent on your mind. There is a physical aspect, of course, but player characters generally don't limp or stutter unless the player chooses to add that to their character's personality.

I could see it either way. Perhaps Darth Vader's cybernetic suit adds to his Presence. So maybe it should be a torso piece instead of a brain implant.

Cybernetics are limited by the character's Brawn rating, and by the fact that you can't use two different arm implants (legs are always done in pairs). I figure that having them all be brain implants gives a similar restriction, but I'm not entirely sure if it would be necessary. Perhaps each of these Attributes might do better to have their own implant type/location, allowing more of them to be used by a single individual.

In some ways, Presence is physical. How tall you are, how you move, what you're wearing, and so on. But in many ways, Presence is a frame of mind. How you stand, where you look, how you speak and what you say, the personality that you project - is largely dependent on your mind. There is a physical aspect, of course, but player characters generally don't limp or stutter unless the player chooses to add that to their character's personality.

Anyone who has ever met a short angry New Yorker or a tall but gangly and awkward kid knows that the physical body is only part of the equation.

How you present yourself makes a huge difference with regards to presence.

Lock Martin (the actor who played the character of "Gort" in the original 1951 movie "The Day the Earth Stood Still") was seven feet and seven inches tall, making him one of the tallest actors to ever be on the silver screen. He was also physically weak, and was not strong enough to carry the actress Patricia Neal in the scene where Gort is supposed to do that. They had to attach a wire to her so that he carried only a part of her weight, and that wire can be seen in some of the remasters.

If you look at Peter Mayhew (7’3"), he’s not actually that impressive, although he is tall. But the character of Chewbacca (as played by Peter Mayhew) is quite imposing.

Conversely, Peter Dinklage is pretty impressive as Tyrion Lannister (from TV’s "Game of Thrones") and Dr. Bolivar Trask (in the movie "X-Men: Days of Future Past"). Yet, he’s a pretty short guy.

So, I would totally believe that someone could effectively increase their Presence by having a cyberbrain upgrade performed.

Up until reading this I looked at the breakdown of characteristics in the core rulebooks as being physical/mental -- 2 physical, and 4 mental traits.

Now, on reflection I think they are evenly split between 3 aspects: physical, mental, and those that make up the " je ne sais quoi " of the character (it's a French expression: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/je_ne_sais_quoi )

So, I can see an implant for Cunning -- however, I don't think any technology could enhance the very intangible qualities of personal willpower and presence.

Some believe that humans possess qualities that machines can never have, and thus, would be unable to augment. While I understand the belief, I disagree. But in Star Wars, where complex droids still lack ... something special, as you put it, it's an interesting point, and I wonder if that is why the designers did not add augmentations for these characteristics.

Although I note that it's perfectly alright to have a droid that excels in any of these areas.

Although I note that it's perfectly alright to have a droid that excels in any of these areas.

Yup. And if a droid can do it, then you should be able to use the same (or similar) programming to help a meatbag do the same.

The two posters above me capture the sentiment.

Also, charisma is trainable as is willpower. Thus if they can be trained, they can likely be installed.

I guess my contention is that intellect is obvious in terms of how technology can improve it. Faster processing, more data, etc.

Will power can be explained through physiological augmentation, neurochemical changes, and an altered perception (to pain and focus).

Cunning again relies on faster processing, but also hyper awareness, which technology could also increase.

But presence... presence is something else. this is not just a mental/neurochemical adjustment. It's not strictly a sensory improvement. It's magnetism. it's looks. It's aesthetics. it's tone and timber and body language. all of which can be assisted by technology, but not from a strictly and purely mental level.

When a droid has a high presence, it's not simply about it's programing. it is the droid as a whole being soothing, aesthetically, etc.

I'm not saying you can't do it, but to me it breaks my verisimulatude. It takes game mechanics and makes them mechanic, pointing out how there is a strain in the logic. I would leave presence as a non-brain implant, or at least something other than a Lobot style implant. But hey, we all have our breaking points for what is too much.

While we're at it we should propose midichlorine transfusions to improve force rating.

While we're at it we should propose midichlorine transfusions to improve force rating.

Actually I'm in the camp that thinks that NONE of the characteristics should be upgradable through installed hardware. They might give you conditional advantages represented as Boost dice or specific Talents (faster typing, mental access to databases of knowledge, stronger grip, face like a Rancor), but not an actual increase in the characteristic itself. One mechanical arm isn't going to make you stronger in all situations, it's just going to make it more likely you injure another part of your body that has to compensate.

In some ways, Presence is physical. How tall you are, how you move, what you're wearing, and so on.

Napoleon*

I could see it either way. Perhaps Darth Vader's cybernetic suit adds to his Presence. So maybe it should be a torso piece instead of a brain implant.

But then anyone could put on a mask and gain Presence. Presence is what you wake up with in the morning. Anakin had plenty of Presence before he became Darth Vader. Putting on the suit made him an icon, but only symbolize all that he already was. It didn't add to it. Might as well say that the Emperor's cowl added to his Presence, but anyone can wear a hooded cloak.

Also, charisma is trainable as is willpower. Thus if they can be trained, they can likely be installed.

I don't think it's the same. Except for Dedication, you train skills, not characteristics. And Dedication represents a lot of investment in time and energy. Personally I think Dedication wasn't necessary, or should have been harder to get, but I understand they put it in as a sop for people who expect it from other games.

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* Actually Napoleon was "average" sized for his time, but history, written by the British, remembers him as short and named a psychological condition after him.

Actually I'm in the camp that thinks that NONE of the characteristics should be upgradable through installed hardware. They might give you conditional advantages represented as Boost dice or specific Talents (faster typing, mental access to databases of knowledge, stronger grip, face like a Rancor), but not an actual increase in the characteristic itself. One mechanical arm isn't going to make you stronger in all situations, it's just going to make it more likely you injure another part of your body that has to compensate.

I don't think it's the same. Except for Dedication, you train skills, not characteristics.

If those facets of personality are trainable (and I don't just mean as skills, I refer to base capabilities), then they should also be "installable". And yes, if a Droid can be programmed for it, so could a meatsack.

and in real life, those are skills that are trained. Real rewiring of a person's subconscious behavior is more akin to dedication, and even then, some people are just born with an unnerving amount of physical presence (from actors like kevin spacey, to corporate CEO's like steve Jobs, RIP). Those things are trainable to an extent, but some of them are just endemic.

An interesting film of this was Spike jonze's HER, where joaquin phoenix falls in love with an operating system. To have a presence, the OS is represented by Amy adams, but even in that it's relying on Amy Adams presence to sell the relationship between a man and a functional machine. Had it been Glados (a camera on a stick with a rather semi monotone voice), that would have been different.

To be clear Eeyore, I'm not saying you're wrong, just that presence as a concept to me is something almost beyond a mere calculated set of responses, and in real life is often almost beyond the natural. Not supernatural exactly, but really ahrd to quantify, especially to sum it up in a brain box.

To be clear Eeyore, I'm not saying you're wrong, just that presence as a concept to me is something almost beyond a mere calculated set of responses, and in real life is often almost beyond the natural. Not supernatural exactly, but really ahrd to quantify, especially to sum it up in a brain box.

However, in Star Wars Droids can have charisma, so evidently it's something that in this future can be quantified.

Keep in mind, I'm with whafrog, Cyberware shouldn't be granting stats; Boosts and setback removal, Skills, Soak, etc are perfectly fine in my mind. But if you're allowing Intellect (which is also nigh impossible to quantify) then the others should be right there too.

Given that Cybernetics in the game already give bonuses to characteristics, we're well beyond the possibility of changing it in the RAW. I was merely making the point that half of the characteristics do not gain such benefits, for no apparent reason.

Remember, what you do for one of the cats has to be done for all of them lest they pee on your jacket.

I recall seeing at least one new cybernetic in Sons of Fortune. I would be shocked if more cybernetics weren't released in future material.

I recall seeing at least one new cybernetic in Sons of Fortune. I would be shocked if more cybernetics weren't released in future material.

This may in fact be better as 'The Force' rather than implants. That would make more sense for Star Wars.