I think it's granted that most of this game is about that combat, and that much of the X-Wing community is aimed at tournaments as being the highest level of play. I also don't think that FFG is going to spend its resources developing material outside of the competitive-and-balanced format.

That said, there's no need to be snide about the desire of many people (myself included) to have this game be about a lot more than that.

I do think there's room for overlap between roleplaying and tabletop battles. I've already spent countless hours devising an online engine that facilitates just that. Unfortunately, it seems to be the casualty of time constraints, and I haven't worked on it for a month at least.

We've been over this before, and I know how you feel about wanting a more immersive experience. I have no problem with the missions and what they provide to people who actually play them, but that's absolutely peripheral to the main object of the game, which is space combat. If FFG can find a meaningful way to sate both kinds of players, so much the better, but my point - which you're casting in a negative light, when all it was meant to be was rhetorical - was that a faction comprised wholly of noncombatants brings nothing to a dogfight game.

Now to be fair, I was wrong about the third faction, so I'm hesitant to call anything impossible at this point. I'm simply voicing by doubts about yet another one being confirmed at this point.

I wouldn't call thos confirmation... it's about another game altogether...

I will concede it does bring the possibility into the realm of possibility... but far from confirmation. I agree with WW.. non combatants have no place in a combat game.

We all realize the Original Post is sarcastic, right? He doesn't think there will be a 4th faction of civilians, and neither does anyone else... I hope.

Yet again I find myself wishing the internet had a sarcasm font. On the internet, everyone's delivery is deadpan and the sarcasm often gets lost.

We've been over this before, and I know how you feel about wanting a more immersive experience. I have no problems with the missions and what they provide to people who actually play them, but that's absolutely peripheral to the main object of the game, which is space combat. If FFG can find a meaningful way to sate both kinds of players, so much the better, but my point - which you're casting in a negative light, when all it was meant to be was rhetorical - was that a faction comprised wholly of noncombatants brings nothing to a dogfight game.

Quite so - a whole 'faction' of noncombatants doesn't make sense. If it isn't a participant in the war, then it isn't a faction.

Regarding putting you in a bad light, I'm sure the green skin on your backside is thick enough to handle it.

I don't think anyone is seriously contemplating that there will be a noncombatant faction. Given that that's the case, why the urge to pile on, even if rhetorically? We know we're not going to get civilian ships beyond the rebel transport, and maybe an Imperial cargo carrier.

I think Bakura83 's point was that the game already does include civilian elements as part of its missions. While disregarded by much of the competitive-and-balanced format-playing crowd, some people do like playing missions and having narrative stakes to their X-Wing games. Why do you need to disparage that, by asking about points and tournaments?

When you talk about the main object of the game, let's recall that the objective of the game is for FFG to make money. If there's money to be made in civilian/non-combatant ships, then they should make those available. I honestly don't think there's much money in it, but saying that the objective is the competitive-and-balanced format, it's like saying that those who want missions are playing it wrong. However, given that there are quite a lot of missions in the game demonstrates that they're part of the game's objective too.

I wouldn't call thos confirmation... it's about another game altogether...

You might have missed where the OP was being ironic.

While disregarded by much of the competitive-and-balanced format-playing crowd, some people do like playing missions and having narrative stakes to their X-Wing games. Why do you need to disparage that, by asking about points and tournaments?

This. I'm about making x-wing popular and fun. That requires diversity, which is why our group does ALL formats - Raw Mission, 100pts Missions, 100pts tournament style, epic and unbound. Dismissing all but one format is NOT what separates the serious players from the rest.

We all realize the Original Post is sarcastic, right? He doesn't think there will be a 4th faction of civilians, and neither does anyone else... I hope.

Yet again I find myself wishing the internet had a sarcasm font. On the internet, everyone's delivery is deadpan and the sarcasm often gets lost.

Man I hope they do a citizens faction. Could call it, Galactic Citizens on Patrol (or the GCP for short). And they could all fly into combat in space station wagons while flashing flash lights in their opponents eyes so they get blinded and fly into asteroids. And if FFG ever introduces atmospheric combat, they could release an Ewok hang glider expansion! Or would that belong in the Rebels faction? Ahhhh, who cares? FFG, just give me some **** Ewoks already!!!!

I at least recognize the excellent sarcasm and scathing social commentary of the OP. Well done!!

Yet again I find myself wishing the internet had a sarcasm font. On the internet, everyone's delivery is deadpan and the sarcasm often gets lost.

Honestly, I would have thought the Winnebego would have done it.

Ah, well...Poe's Law, I guess.

So Lone Star is pilot skill 9?

I think Bakura83 's point was that the game already does include civilian elements as part of its missions. While disregarded by much of the competitive-and-balanced format-playing crowd, some people do like playing missions and having narrative stakes to their X-Wing games. Why do you need to disparage that, by asking about points and tournaments?

I don't feel like I should have to expressly mention "oh, I'm talking about the 100 point format" every single time I make a comment just to prevent that kind of technical correction. Yes, I know there are missions that come with the core set and the expansions. Yes, I know the transport isn't itself technically a combat ship. The 100 point X-Wing format is the default mode, and the standard topic of conversation on these boards. When someone creates a thread about an allegedly "confirmed" faction, I imagine that we'll be having a discussion within the context of that format. My own commentary wasn't designed to disparage alternate formats so much as it was to address the topic at hand.

The 100 point X-Wing format is the default mode, and the standard topic of conversation on these boards. When someone creates a thread about an allegedly "confirmed" faction, I imagine that we'll be having a discussion within the context of that format. My own commentary wasn't designed to disparage alternate formats so much as it was to address the topic at hand.

Ehhh....like when the transport AND CR-90 were announced? Totally off the topic of this thread (basically), but...FFG seemed to think it made sense to release those ships, even though neither of them would ever fit in the 'standard 100 point format'.

You do realize that it's entirely possible FFG could also do smaller ($15 instead of $60 or $90) releases that also don't fit in the 100-pt-format, right?

If the game stays AS wildly profitable as it is very much longer, I rather expect we'll see that kind of thing (that it also nicely provides miniatures for use in their RPG products, at the same time, could only be considered win-win).

So they'll have chiss?

No, they will not.

I'm pretty sure Chiss just got confirmed in the OP

sarcasm

Not sure it's a Chiss, facial markings look like a Pantoran.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Pantoran

I don't feel like I should have to expressly mention "oh, I'm talking about the 100 point format" every single time I make a comment just to prevent that kind of technical correction. Yes, I know there are missions that come with the core set and the expansions. Yes, I know the transport isn't itself technically a combat ship. The 100 point X-Wing format is the default mode, and the standard topic of conversation on these boards. When someone creates a thread about an allegedly "confirmed" faction, I imagine that we'll be having a discussion within the context of that format. My own commentary wasn't designed to disparage alternate formats so much as it was to address the topic at hand.

Unless you were, yourself, being ironic in the same tone as the OP, you may be missing the point of my critique. Given that you're being defensive, I'm gathering that you weren't being ironic. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Mike, you may be right, I may have missed the irony/sarcasm.. but can you blame me.. there are so many chicken littles on here it's hard to distinguish between them..

Mike, you may be right, I may have missed the irony/sarcasm.. but can you blame me.. there are so many chicken littles on here it's hard to distinguish between them..

Well, I'll vouch for Xander as not being that sort.

But to take your counterpoint (as well as WW's) seriously, I think you are both mistaken about combat games necessarily excluding noncombatants. The idea of warfare excluding the innocent was a rare paradigm. If this game is about simulating combat, then it should be something that includes the possibility of making war on innocents - to give the combatants objectives to fight over. If it's not supposed to be simulating something, why not go play Chess or Go?

Unless you were, yourself, being ironic in the same tone as the OP, you may be missing the point of my critique. Given that you're being defensive, I'm gathering that you weren't being ironic. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Let's rewind then. What's the point of your critique?

Unless you were, yourself, being ironic in the same tone as the OP, you may be missing the point of my critique. Given that you're being defensive, I'm gathering that you weren't being ironic. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Let's rewind then. What's the point of your critique?

Fair enough.

I think I restate my point well enough in my recent reply to oneway . Sure, the game is predominantly played as Star Wars chess, but I do think there's a lot of hunger for something more.

Saying that ' missions [are] peripheral to the main object of the game ', and scoffing at stuff (such as that shuttle, as well as the numerous missions) that have been included in the game, arrogates your preferred form of play as being what we all should primarily follow and which FFG should aim the bulk of their attention on.

I don't dispute that most of the game's players play the way you do. Hell, most of my games are that way too, but throw us a bone here! Let us at least have an ironic post without the obvious being trumpeted.

Saying that ' missions [are] peripheral to the main object of the game ', and scoffing at stuff (such as that shuttle, as well as the numerous missions) that have been included in the game, arrogates your preferred form of play as being what we all should primarily follow and which FFG should aim the bulk of their attention on.

Not at all. I already said that I have no problem with alternate formats, but the last time I checked there wasn't a lot of chatter here about the missions. I'm talking about the 100 point format, and it's more than a little exasperating when someone thinks it's germane to point out a technicality that a) I'm more than well aware of and b) has nothing to do with the point I'm making. Does that explain the tone of my commentary?

Yeah, Waaagh...the OP was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek. THAT SAID...

I mean...do I think we could get "non-combatant" (IE., 'civilian') minis for the game "officially" at some point? Not soon , that's for **** sure, no. But at all? Yeah, I kinda do. I think the license is valuable enough, and FFG seems to know what they are doing to grow it, that the game is not going away any time soon. And 2 years from now, well after the Imperial AND Scum 'huge' ships are released...ALL the ships from the video games that anyone can remember from the 3 factions are released...could FFG decide to do some "non-combatant" minis for use only in 'Epic' play and their RPG products? (Especially given 2 more years worth of legs on those games?)

Sure! I'd even say it's inevitable , it's...our destiny ...if the game lasts that long as a competitive offering in the market. And I really do think it will!

Yeah, Waaagh...the OP was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek. THAT SAID...

I get that, hence the reason I didn't provide much in the way of detail with my first offhand comment.

Saying that ' missions [are] peripheral to the main object of the game ', and scoffing at stuff (such as that shuttle, as well as the numerous missions) that have been included in the game, arrogates your preferred form of play as being what we all should primarily follow and which FFG should aim the bulk of their attention on.

Not at all. I already said that I have no problem with alternate formats, but the last time I checked there wasn't a lot of chatter here about the missions. I'm talking about the 100 point format, and it's more than a little exasperating when someone thinks it's germane to point out a technicality that a) I'm more than well aware of and b) has nothing to do with the point I'm making. Does that explain the tone of my commentary?

Bro', I think we're just going to go back and forth on this one, with neither of us being happier or wiser.

Let me just add insult to injury by saying that it's unfair for my form of fun to be underserved, when it is - in fact - a superior form of fun to yours.

Bro', I think we're just going to go back and forth on this one, with neither of us being happier or wiser.

Let me just add insult to injury by saying that it's unfair for my form of fun to be underserved, when it is - in fact - a superior form of fun to yours.

I suppose we can just chalk it up to communication issues, then. I'm certainly not about to take away your bliss.

Bro', I think we're just going to go back and forth on this one, with neither of us being happier or wiser.

Let me just add insult to injury by saying that it's unfair for my form of fun to be underserved, when it is - in fact - a superior form of fun to yours.

I suppose we can just chalk it up to communication issues, then. I'm certainly not about to take away your bliss.

But there's the rub. My form of bliss requires more investment than the lowest-common-denominator form of playing this game, and that is very hard to come by.

Therefore, no bliss for me. That's why something like civilians and missions and an official outline for how to get more out of this game would be a blessing. It would legitimize a more immersive experience, and signal how it might be done, without a ton of explanation and third-party inputs.

Amazing, OP. simply amazing!

But there's the rub. My form of bliss requires more investment than the lowest-common-denominator form of playing this game, and that is very hard to come by.

Therefore, no bliss for me. That's why something like civilians and missions and an official outline for how to get more out of this game would be a blessing. It would legitimize a more immersive experience, and signal how it might be done, without a ton of explanation and third-party inputs.

Do you want me to role-play with you? Very well, I'm a paladin with 18 charisma and 97 hit points. I can use my helm of disintegration and do 1d4 damage as my half-elf mage wields his +5 holy avenger.