With the newly spoiled Galadhon Archer I am now (when I make proxies tonight) running x3 Naith Guide, x3 Galadhon Archer and x1 Rumil as far as Silvan allies go. I will most likely run Orophin as well as he has very good stats for his cost regardless of how good his extra ability is and he also appears to have ranged which is invaluable. What I'm trying to work out is whether or not it would be worth running Feigned Voices or not. Seven allies in a 50 card deck doesn't really seem like enough and even eight doesn't sound much better. At the same time however you only need the one Silvan ally to appear and you can bounce the same one multiple times getting multiple uses out of the allys enter play ability as well.

There really aren't any other Silvan allies that are leadership or tactics that I would consider running and don't want to turn the deck into a pure silvan deck anyway as I prefer it to have an overall elven theme (noldor and silvan as well as power cards that don't fit the theme) instead.

Would anyone run Feigned Voices in a 50 card deck with 7/8 silvan allies or does this seem foolish? It could potentially replace wizards voice or even be a third attack cancelling card in the deck. If you want more reference the deck I am thinking of possibly implementing this card in is posted here: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/104951-two-handed-decks/page-3

The chances of getting at least 1 Silvan ally when you have 7 is pretty darn good, so I would include it.

If you are running tactics then Feigned Voices seems an auto to me.

If you are running tactics then Feigned Voices seems an auto to me.

Sorry, I was thinking of Pursuing the Enemy.

Here's the real question: is Feigned Voices necessary for that deck? You already have Feint and The Wizard's Voice. You also have a pretty nice super defender. If the deck handles defense well, then you're probably better off leaving it as is. If you run out of resources for readying pretty often, then you should certainly add in that backup. If anything, it's extra early game insurance to protect you before you get your super defender all set up.

If you're replacing one of the other events with similar abilities, then you simply need to compare costs. 1 Tactics resource vs Doomed 3 (though it prevents attacks for both decks rather than one) vs returning silvan ally to hand. If the threat isn't an issue, The Wizard's Voice is the best choice because it helps both players. Since your decks aren't true Silvan (with Celeborn and O Lorien), popping an ally back into your hand has less usefulness and a higher cost.

In short: If you often run into the situation where The Wizard's Voice is being used and you either have a hard time dealing with the threat gain or you only need to prevent one enemy attack, then I'd replace it with Feigned Voices. If you often run into a situation where you don't immediately have a Tactics resource available to use Feint, then Feigned Voices can help by essentially pushing that cost out to the future and potentially converted that cost to Leadership resources if you use it on Naith Guide, but in any case (with your decks) the cost will end up being 2 or more since you have no 1-cost Silvan allies. Of course, if you're able to bring any of the Silvan allies back into play, you gain that benefit.

So, unless you run into the situations where Feint and/or The Wizard's Voice don't work ideally for you, I'd just leave Feigned Voices out. Either that, or change your Leadership hero to Celeborn, throw some more Silvan stuff in and ADD Feigned Voices in. With all three of those events, you may never need to defend

Here's the real question: is Feigned Voices necessary for that deck? You already have Feint and The Wizard's Voice. You also have a pretty nice super defender. If the deck handles defense well, then you're probably better off leaving it as is. If you run out of resources for readying pretty often, then you should certainly add in that backup. If anything, it's extra early game insurance to protect you before you get your super defender all set up.

If you're replacing one of the other events with similar abilities, then you simply need to compare costs. 1 Tactics resource vs Doomed 3 (though it prevents attacks for both decks rather than one) vs returning silvan ally to hand. If the threat isn't an issue, The Wizard's Voice is the best choice because it helps both players. Since your decks aren't true Silvan (with Celeborn and O Lorien), popping an ally back into your hand has less usefulness and a higher cost.

In short: If you often run into the situation where The Wizard's Voice is being used and you either have a hard time dealing with the threat gain or you only need to prevent one enemy attack, then I'd replace it with Feigned Voices. If you often run into a situation where you don't immediately have a Tactics resource available to use Feint, then Feigned Voices can help by essentially pushing that cost out to the future and potentially converted that cost to Leadership resources if you use it on Naith Guide, but in any case (with your decks) the cost will end up being 2 or more since you have no 1-cost Silvan allies. Of course, if you're able to bring any of the Silvan allies back into play, you gain that benefit.

So, unless you run into the situations where Feint and/or The Wizard's Voice don't work ideally for you, I'd just leave Feigned Voices out. Either that, or change your Leadership hero to Celeborn, throw some more Silvan stuff in and ADD Feigned Voices in. With all three of those events, you may never need to defend

Yeah more than anything I wanted to replace Wizards Voice with it or at least look at this possibility. Unfortunately Wizards Voice is often not necessary and is sometimes even used just to stop a single enemy attack. Often even when used to stop two enemies one of the enemies I specifically want/need to stop but the other is just an extra bonus effect and really I could easily defend against it. When used to cancel a single attack it is insanely detrimental as it raises both players threat by 3. Even when used to stop two attacks but only one really needed to be cancelled it feels like a waste as again that 3 threat increase for both players is pretty nasty. The only situations therefore when Wizards Voice seems truly worth it is when it stops two particularly nasty enemy effects which is not that often at all.

Threat gain also does not help the new Boromir ally who is more powerful if your threat is low (lower than engagement costs of enemies engaged with you specifically) or Dagger of Westernesse which provides +2 attack instead of just +1 so long as your threat is lower than the enemies engagement cost.

Based on your advice I think I will replace The Wizards Voice with Feigned Voices even if just to trial it.

Playing the Silvan ally that is returned to hand the second time will not be anywhere near as beneficial as it would be in a silvan deck without the 1 cost discount from O Lorien and the stat boost from Celeborn. So long as I bounce a Naith Guide or Galadhon Archer however it is just a 2 cost and they do both have enter play abilities which I will gain a second time. Definitely won't be using Celeborn however as I am not fully committing to the Silvan archetype and want to run/play with powerful elven decks (Noldor and Silvan mix) not pure Silvan decks. As well as this Elrohir is my favorite hero (with Haldir and Legolas a close tied second) and I can't part with him for any reason. This obviously means his brother has to stick around as well.

My new question is; assuming that instead of 7 Silvan allies I am running 8 with Orophin as well do you think that O Lorien is worth including in my deck? I would only ever run 1 maybe 2 copies (definitely not 3) and this would help Feigned Voices be more effective as well as make it easier to play Rumil, Orophin and the weaker allies in general. This question and card is much less important as I can usually play the allies fairly easily and a 1 cost discount does not make THAT much difference especially considering I don't have THAT many Silvan allies.

If you are running tactics then Feigned Voices seems an auto to me.

Sorry, I was thinking of Pursuing the Enemy.

To be honest Pursuing the Enemy seems really average to me.

I really like Feigned Voices & O'Lorien (Celeborn too)... however unless you are going to get lots of bounce back/recycling of the Silvan allies you have - i'm not sure that they are worth including.

Pursuing the Enemy; I keep wanting to like this card but it just hasn't made the cut yet... Galadhon Archer might be the tipping point for me to include it (at least to try it).

If you're not running into many issues with paying for the Silvan allies, I wouldn't bother with O Lorien at this point. Once you hit 10+ Silvan allies, I think it'll be much more beneficial, especially if you're using Feigned Voices. Pursuing the Enemy would be weak in this deck in my opinion and since the other deck can't bounce your allies, you won't be making a lot of use of Silvan bouncing, so it still may be a little weak, but if it helps assure you have the resources necessary to ready the brothers, then I don't see a reason to exclude it. Resources, especially in a deck where resources are used to ready the heroes, are precious, so I would definitely say it isn't a bad idea, but I don't know if it's a necessity for this deck.

Really appreciate the feedback and ideas guys, especially joezim. I think im pretty much on the same page as you Joezim, O Lorien is only really necessary for 10+ allies. Don't really need any more resource smoothing and Elladans ability is rarely used anyway its the leadership resources that are super precious. If I add not only Orophin but another x2 or x3 of any new silvan ally released I may include O Lorien, till then though I think its better to leave it out.

I really like Feigned Voices & O'Lorien (Celeborn too)... however unless you are going to get lots of bounce back/recycling of the Silvan allies you have - i'm not sure that they are worth including.

Pursuing the Enemy; I keep wanting to like this card but it just hasn't made the cut yet... Galadhon Archer might be the tipping point for me to include it (at least to try it).

Its true that I really won't get much bounce back and recycling but just the fact I get to stop an attack for 0 resources and then play the ally returned to hand by that effect again and get the enter play effect a second time is pretty dang good so long as I consistently get at least one cheap silvan ally each game to do this with. It also allows me to no longer cop the threat gain from Wizards Voice and even allows me to blast enemies with Rumil a second time! You're right about O Lorien though, totally not worth including, just yet at least!

hahahahaha just played my first game with Feigned Voices in the deck (against trouble in tharbad) and drew all three copies throughout the course of the game but not a SINGLE silvan ally.......

will need to play a few more games....

What are the odds!!?!?

hahahahaha just played my first game with Feigned Voices in the deck (against trouble in tharbad) and drew all three copies throughout the course of the game but not a SINGLE silvan ally.......

will need to play a few more games....

hahaha... i hate it when i try new decks and cards that I want to try or combo don't even make an appearance.

I've now played several games in which Feigned Voices has been very handy (its 0 cost is so good, don't have to leave a resource to use it like for feint) and very powerful. Stopping an enemy attack for 0 and then playing Galadhron Archers a second time the following round to do a second point of free damage works pretty **** well. Playing Naith Guide a second time is pretty awesome as well. Haven't had a single game in which I have drawn a Feigned Voices and not been able to use it either within a turn or two or at least later in the game since that initial terrible test. Having Feint AND Feigned Voices means there is less chance of having a Feigned Voices you can't use just yet but desperately need to. Desperately need to cancel an attack early game? Use Feint! Need to cancel an attack later in the game or when you have no resources? Feigned Voices! Having both is invaluable and not raising threat by 3 from using The Wizards Voice anymore is super helpful as well (especially against nightmare where you sometimes have only 1 or 2 threat meaning the difference between victory and potential defeat). It will only get better when Orophin is released and I am using him as well.

Between Feints, Feigned Voices, Haldirs ability, Rumil and Gandalf quite often I am able to drastically reduce the amount of attacks enemies actually make during a game.

I really like Feigned Voices, exactly because it's free and lets you reuse the enters play bonuses. I'm really fond of using it to replay the Minstrel that fetches events (in all my games, Naith Guide just never seems to enter my hand...).

It's a really great card.

Thinking about the Silvan events more generally, I like very much the fact that they all cost 0, and work to allow you to reuse allies who (largely) have an enters play effect that you want to use. It gives a nice clarity to the Silvan archetype, and from a player's perspective, offers a degree of control about what is going on that is rather enjoyable. There's no sledgehammer of power with the Silvans (unlike, say, Outlands, or Dwarves) but there is a charming feeling of evasion with all the effects.

I really like Feigned Voices, exactly because it's free and lets you reuse the enters play bonuses. I'm really fond of using it to replay the Minstrel that fetches events (in all my games, Naith Guide just never seems to enter my hand...).

It's a really great card.

Yea, by far Galadhrim Minstrel and Naith Guide have the best effects, thus far, for reusing with these events. Galadhon Archer is rather situational, and we're not really sure what the spirit elf will do. As for the bigger Silvan allies, their cost is often prohibitive to using the events, but if you can afford it, Rumil can be pretty awesome. Orophin (assuming that his ability to pull a Silvan ally out of the discard pile is correct) is also pretty situational, though he can be pretty handy in some situations where a treachery or something wipes out most of your allies.

But yea, even if you're just using Galadhrim Minstrel, Naith Guide, and/or Galadhon Archer, you tend to get your money's worth with these Silvan events.

I agree that Galadhrim Minstrel and Naith Guide are two great cards - love it when Minstrel draws Tree people, that in turn puts Naith Guide into play. - Then once I have one in play along with O'Lorien in play, really just need events to return Naith Guide to my hand (and play again each turn along Silvan refugee... okay so ideally two events or multiple Guides)... the likes of Feigned voices, Pursing the Enemy, Children of the Sea are all useful in my opinion... especially Feigned Voices.

Tried Galadhon Archer don't dislike but wasn't as useful as I hoped likewise Pursing the Enemy.

Even O'Lorien reducing a 2pt Silvan Ally like Naith Guide to 1pt each round has been far more beneficial at ensuring a regular flow of allies than I initially would have thought... boosted by Galadriel/Celeborn... and then recycled by the likes of Feigned Voices, Pursing the Enemy, Children of the Sea... If only I could decide what is the most fun combination of Elven Heroes/spheres to play.

I agree. O Lorien is way more powerful than it seems on the surface. It's better than just gaining a resource because that resource can essentially given to any hero, no matter who O Lorien is attached to. And Galadriel + Celeborn is just too good.

If you're having trouble deciding which combination of heroes to try, you may want to try playing 2-handed/player, like my Silvan Doubles decks. Then you can use pretty much everything.

Yes I will happily give your decks go your post actually inspired me to try Ian's testing on a double Silvan deck too... I think both yours and PsychoRocha's decks are more balanced than mine... will complete play-through though and see how they go... when i find the time

currently hero line ups are:

Nice hero line ups! Let us know how you go and also feel free to post your decks in my two handed decks thread =)

Put up a Tri-Sphere Silvan deck if anyone's interested

If you are running tactics then Feigned Voices seems an auto to me.

Sorry, I was thinking of Pursuing the Enemy.

To be honest Pursuing the Enemy seems really average to me.

Have completely changed my mind about this card!!! Just recently embraced the Silvan trait a fair bit more in my two decks by replacing Legolas with Celeborn. I put x3 of Pursuing the Enemy in one deck more so to include more Silvan return to hand effects so that I can re use Naith Guide and Galadhon Archer's abilities a second time and also give them a second boost to stats from Celeborn than the actual effect the card itself gives you. So for example for 0 cost I can use a Pursuing the Enemy during the planning phase and do perhaps 1 damage to two enemies engaged with me and return a Naith Guide, Archer or even Orophin to my hand. With all the leadership resources that Celeborn and Elrohir with Steward attached generate I can then easily play that Naith Guide/Orophin the same planning phase allowing a hero to quest for free or returning a silvan ally from my discard pile to my hand and providing a 2/3 willpower ally for that round or 3 attack ally in the case of Orophin. Less beneficially I can play an Archer the same planning phase I use Pursuing the Enemy to deal 1 damage to an enemy not engaged with me as well and get a 3 attack ally for the round.

Also because the card isn't a combat action like Feigned Voices and just an action it can be used during any phase or even during any part of a phase that allows actions. For example at the start of combat to kill off any enemies left on only 1 hitpoint stopping them from getting an attack in or at the end of combat after you have already used the Silvan ally you return to hand to attack getting more value out of the ally and event and perhaps killing an enemy you left on 1 hitpoint after your attacks.

So more so than its actual effect just as a card that you can use at any point to return a Silvan to hand even during planning at which point you can then simply play that ally instantly getting a stat boost from Celeborn and any enter play effects a second time makes this card really really good for Silvans in my opinion.

For just 2 leadership resources being able to return Naith Guide to hand and then re play it immediately giving a +1 willpower boost to it and allowing a hero to quest without exhausting (usually Celeborn for example) giving you a +3 willpower boost in a way if you otherwise would not have quested with that hero or even just action advantage if you were going to quest with that hero anyway PLUS possibly a point of damage on a couple of enemies perhaps even the last point of damage to kill a lesser foe is insanely good. If you have O Lorien in play you can do it for one resource...

If any of this doesn't make sense here are the contents of my decks to make things clearer:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/104951-two-handed-decks/?p=1363892