Check this out... It's made of pure awesome...

http://www.thq-games.com/uk/thqtv/index?movieId=3145

I think I'm going to have to change my pants.

Well it looks good, but it fail, at the fact that it does not seem come to PC.

Just look at other decent games on consoles, they almost always make it to the PC as a port a couple of months later.

Somewhere Dezmund is quivering with unknowable joy!

Peacekeeper_b said:

Don't say his name out loud, fool! You'll bring down the wrath of the Grey Knights upon us all!

Didnt he post some game preview of that game some months ago?

It's not technically the same game. The old, leaked video we all saw was made by a different development team. It got scrapped and what you see above is an entirely new endeavour. I presume it was "ballet of destruction" and SMG style bolters that got it canned.

Anyway, yes, much excitement to be had.

I saw this and my jaw literally dropped and I started drooling like a Great Dane. Yeah this is going to be SO good!

Office chair mighty!

:D

Actually, it's still the same guys Snidesworth - they just brought in their Alpha team to "realign with Games Workshop's expectations". A lot of the "ballet of death" stuff is still present - in fact you can see various gory kill moves in the video. My understanding is that the biggest overall structure change was, indeed, turning bolters from SMGs to the devastating weapons we think of them as. Notice how slowly (e.g. correctly) the Astartes with the heavy bolter is firing? I suspect they'll have had to make quite a few adjustments to gameplay - bolters presumably fire fairly slowly, but generally paste what they hit - thus, to really get your kill on you engage in hand to hand...

...which seems very Space Marine to me.

TS Luikart said:

Whoops. My bad - my developmental friend tells me "no, it is a new development team, but they bought a chunk of the original code when the first guys failed to do what was asked of them". The new game (with the same title as the old one) is by Relic, the leaked stuff was by THQ Aus.

TS Luikart said:

I was wondering, considering how different and less lame this version looks.

Finally, something that really shows how badass Space Marines truly are. I never thought the TT minis game did them justice. Hope a lot of the stuff in this game translates into Deathwatch next year.

ClockworkGecko said:

How does the TT not do them justice? That always confused me, how does the method they were designed from, the original incarnation, the prototype, the basis all other aspects come from not do them justice?

Personally, I think too much of the newer fluff over the past 20 years has just exagerratted their effectiveness and has idolized them. Truth be told, they are only WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4.

Maybe we should first hope that GW fixes those stats before we start saying thign like "do them justice."

To me, the TT is the gospel and everything else is illussion and lie.

Space Marines can sie from a lasgun, Ive seen it a hundred times.

Peacekeeper_b said:

/signed

Space Marines are supremely and superbly enhanced human warriors based on the basic human blueprint so to speak, but they are human after all. A stub bullet through the prefrontal cortex of an Astartes would be as deadly to him as to a normal human for example as would be dropping from a height of 30 m. A Space Marine standing naked in front of a (naked) Genestealer would be dead rather fast (a reason they put on Terminator armour when boarding Space Hulks) and they would have their problems with a naked Ork either (with a Nob being certainly en par). I really hope these funky Computer games do not make a mess with the background as it is and has been for the last decades...

If the TT space marines were as powerful as they are in the fluff, EVERY game against them, regardless of size would be imba in one manner or another. Read Brothers of the Snake, that does a brilliant job of portraying the Space Marines as they are

Ten Marines killing 3000 Dark Eldar by just shooting at them is brilliant job of portraying them? Even if they were hitting with every bolt round (which is unlikely as Eldar can dodge lasbolts and throw back grenades) they'd have to have 300 rounds each. In canon they have 80 IIRC, and that encounter was during a prolonged fight in which they had to shoot several times. So yeah.

BL books will be inherently flawed as sources of objective information as they're written from perspective of a plot-armoured protagonist facing thousands of stormtrooper syndrome mooks. If there ever was a book about an Eldar or Ork warrior you could expect that he kills about a Company's worth of Marines. It;s just the subjective way it's written.

If anything, Marine stats were upgraded across the editions. In the beginning for example a Marine was S3 T3 and most Aspect Warriors had a 3+ save too. Crux Terminatus inv save was only introduced in 3e, etc, etc. You can't say that the tabletop doesn't do them justice because in tabletop games you don't have a "main character" or anything.

That said, I like that trailer very much, especially the pre-generated stuff. Only when they withstand an orbital bombardment by sticking their weapons in the dirt it gets a bit cheesy, but what can you do.

Well, I guess I know what my husband and all his friends will be up to for weeks when this game comes out.

Me, I long ago learned to live with the fact I'm not the target market for anything GW-related. :-)

cyclocius said:

No. Space Marines as they are are WS 4, BS 4, S 4, T 4, I 4, A 1, W 1, LD 8, Save 3+ armed with Rapid Fire S 4 AP 5 Bolters.

Sense the fluff, the RPGs, the board games, the comics, the novels, the video games are all based off the TT game, they are the ones that are wrong.

So until the TT games upgrades the stats of these blokes to WS 5, BS 5, S 5, T 5, I 5, A 2, W 2, LD 9 with a Save of 2+ with Assault S 5 AP 4 Bolters.....

aethel said:

Who knows? Maybe some genius come up with the idea of using an Adepta Sororitas protagonist for an action/rpg? Not that the target audience would change much simply to switch to a female protagonist, but I have to say that all of my female friends and relatives definitely found the Adepta Sororitas to be quite cool in contrast with the astartes, that only guys seem to be able to like. Hence it might be enjoyable for both audiences!

Then again if someone were to create an Adepta Sororitas action/rpg, I fear that the protagonist would suffer from the notorious "video game heroine-complex" involving ridiculous amounts of unnecessary nudity, which is something the video game industry hardly need more of than it already has. And sure, the Adepta Sororitas already suffer from that particular syndrome in a way (seriously, why the hell does power armour need to have pronounced breasts? Makes less sense than an Ork with a toothbrush), but GW have managed to keep it pretty low key in comparison to other modern heroines. Black, femme fatale shaped power armour isn't so hard to digest, as long as the gals wearing them are the fanatical psychopaths that we all know and love.

But I'll bet two grams of pocket lint and a nickle that this low-key approach would get tossed out the window if one would ever think of bringing in the Sororitas in a video game. I predict that the power armour will probably get perforated with a cleavage exposer or something similarly stupid. Sure it will leave a totally open area around the heart and lungs of our heroines and would be totally stupid to wear in battle, but hey as long as you can get some pre-pubescent boys to drool over it, its okay... right?

Bitter pokes at the video game industry aside, I do look forward to Space Marine. Sure the hypermasculinity can be a bit over the top sometimes, but in a way the Space Marines are a bit charming, and they do work as video game characters. But mostly im looking forward to excessive amounts of violence and explosions, and hearing them bellow: "FOR THE EMPEROR!!!" at the top of their lungs.

If it can top the God of War series in violence and aggressiveness then I'll be more than happy with the result.

Varnias Tybalt said:

Aethel ~ trust me I understand...I've come to a remarkably similar conclusion and have also come to terms with it.

Varnias ~ you have a point about the video game industry as a whole...they try to make "empowered" female characters who still manage to show more skin than some strip joints. I have yet to understand how they manage to trick themselves into thinking that makes us "chicks" feel empowered. Its like fantasy's quintessential chain-maile bikini. What earthly good could that actually do a female warrior when it leaves the most important parts of her exposed?! Even Xena's questionable costume covered the bloody midsection.

That being said, you mentioned the power armor for the Adepta Sororitas having breasts. Knowing a little bit about real armor, I can actually shed some faint light on this particular approach. Power armor itself is based on traditional medieval plate. Now medieval plate was not something you could simply buy off the rack if you'll forgive my idiom. It had to be custom fitted to the buyer. That fit was crucial to a knight's ability to both maneuver and take damage during a fight. Let's say it was too large in the chest, the knight would have difficulty getting full range of motion out of the shoulder joint or would be unable to sit properly on a horse. Similar issues would be present in the legs and arms. Ill-fitting armor also increased the wearer's chance of taking damage, aside from the affect on maneuverability. If it didn't fit properly, areas specifically reinforced for extra damage will not lay properly and therefore not function at full capacity.

Traditional power armor (which is tailored and sculpted, so to speak, to a specific wearer) built for a male form will not properly fit a female form with any definition...unless she straps down her bosom which is not a good idea to begin with. If it does not fit properly on the Sororitas, then its effectiveness is decreased. How then do you properly outfit a woman with breasts in a tailored piece of armor without an allowance for those very feminine parts?

Black Requiem said:

My theory on the subject about empowerment is that some game developers obviously think that the only way for a woman to feel empowered is to have some sort of sexual power over men. Therefore they believe that by providing this in a simulation through a video game, female gamers should feel empowered by running around with a protagonist looking like a siliconized playboy-bunny with a sword or a big gun that pre-pubescent boys would drool over. Sort of like: "Oh, finally I can 'pretend' that im an attractive woman in this game, but not having to feel objectified because I can swing a big sword as well! Happy, happy, joy, joy!"

Now, I wouldn't claim to having adopted some sort of divine insights in the womans psyche. In fact I dont believe such generalisations work at all. Personally I try to treat everyone like the individuals they are (wether they be men or women) and not draw any premature conclusions as to what they like and what makes them feel empowered etc. simply because of their gender.

But I have to say that some of these game developers and character designers seem to be a bit oblivious of the fact that most women have, some time during their life had some more or less pre-pubescent "boys" drooling over them. And I find it hard to believe that the sensation would be very much "empowering". I could be wrong of course, but the reactions I've heard have varied from "sort of cute" to "outright uncomfortable".

I might be way in over my head here, but would my theory that female gamers ALSO want to be able to rip the head of hydras, and slaughter several hundreds of undead foes (like Kratos can do in God of War! ), BUT with a female character that they can identify themselves with? Is it really that implausible that chicks MAYBE want to play video games for other reasons than having a sort of forced sexual attraction simulator shoved in their faces?

I dont know, its just a theory. Im just trying to think outside the box here. What I can tell for sure is that I (as a guy) am a bit sick of the way video game heroines are portrayed. Not that im of a particularly feminist standpoint or anything like that, im a red blooded male too, and I also thought that the emergence of scantly clad video game heroines was a little cute at first. Not because I ever really belonged to the drooling pre-pubescent boys like that, but that the early attempts at animating the blocky boobs of Lara Croft in the first Tomb Raider games was a bit original, cute and tounge-in-cheek.

But now thats all there is to it. You rarely see any original heroines anymore. Its always this nubile sexgoddess/action-chick hybrid, and its really getting old. Luckily some games have featured more down to earth, interesting and above all HUMAN heroines. Take Heather in Silent Hill 3 for instance? Or if we move to action games: Luger from the first Killzone (a personal favourite of mine). Sure, Luger is a so called "Shadow Marshal" (assassin, which have been a little arcetypical for female characters in games) but she looks more like a real soldier, clad in combat fatigues, camo-facemask and black cap, IR-Goggles and no visible make-up effects what so ever. Which means no skimpy and revealing bodyglove or stupid visible cleavage or anything like that. THAT was original and a fresh breeze. I would like to see more Luger's in action games starring female protagonists, and less Lara Crofts. For originalitys sake. But that's just my opinion.

Now, about the power armour. It seems you've studied the topic a bit more in detail than I have, but I was aware of the importance of medival armour fitting properly. HOWEVER! I've seen medival armour designed for women, and not all of them featured visible "breast cups", which leads me to believe that any such details could in many cases have been for artistic reasons rather than necessity. But I'll not stick to that argument because its hard to credit any sources which I've only seen with my naked eyes. (hmm "breasts", "rack", "cups", "naked"... I dont think I like where these idioms are leading ), but I have another detail worth mentioning. And that is the principle of how powered armour works. Any sci-fi buff is probably familiar wih powered armour commonly being a fully enclosed suit of armour that has its limb-parts powered by hydraulic actuators or servos instead of only the wearers muscle-power. While a medival suit of armour "hanged" from the wearers body, it had to fit just perfectly in order to provide maximum flexibility and comfort. The power armour very rarely "hangs" of the wearers body, but is rather built on top of its actuated frame.

So while I see your point as to what sort of armour the Adepta Sororitas power armour was based on visually, I cant, technically see any specific reason as to why the armour has to have breast cups. I mean if you're building a robotized suit of armour, why intentionally create weak spots in the chest area (that contains some of the body's most vital organs) by adding unnecessary details in order to show that the wearer has a pair of ****?

Sure some parts of the Astartes power armour certainly has a few illogical parts as well (the ridiculously large shoulder pads for instance), but the relatively simple shape of its torso-part actually makes some sense in contrast of the Sororitas armour. The simpler the shape, the better structural integrity you get (note that my skills in physics are one of a layman), the more complex shape you have, then the more weak areas you will have and the total structural integrity will suffer.

I guess its about now that some people would tell me to shut up because I out myself as an extreme nerd, but im a very proud nerd so I happily drift away into elaborate and theoretical discussions of fictional armour and their functions.

And I know that its hard for anyone to get the "final say", because its pure fiction. And, as always WH40K is usualy governed by the "rule of cool", and aesthetically I really think that the Sororitas armour looks cool. But if I wanted to make it look more functional/practical I wouldnt keep such overt artistic details as breastcups. If I ran an army of fanatical warrior nuns I would want them to have the best protection possible and not care very much for aesthetic details which might compromise their armours structural integrity. So you see, its not that I have anything against breasts really, quite the opposite. Im the one who wants to make sure they DON'T get damaged by enemy fire, remember?

I have to say as cool as this game looks, I must be honest and say that I prefered the graphics on the original, cancelled footage. It looked much more realistic, as opposed to the new incarnation which merely looks like a slightly enhances version of the original DoW game and a little cartoonish by comparrison... but hey, just my opinion.

Chances are (judging by what I can see), it will basically be God of War with Greek mythology taken out and 40k put in. Don't get me wrong, I loved God of War but at the end of the day it was never anything more than a no-brainer button-masher.

Still, these are early days yet. Who can say what the game will or won't play like.

Oh, and I'll leave people like Dezmond with one final thought... a full Space Marine squad, made up of Multiplayer PC's!

Mmmmmm.... caaaarnaaaaaaage....

Idaan said:

Karen Traavis wrote the Republic Commando novels and I have to say, she did a whiz-bang job. I'm not a big Star Wars fiction fan, but those are great for two major reasons. 1) No Skywalkers allowed! I don't remember Anakin even being mentioned and the Jedi are kept to a minimum of what's needed. 2) The commandos aren't invincible super-soldiers and while certainly bad-ass with killer tech, they know they're limits. Sure, comparing the Space Marines to clone commandos is apples to oranges, but the principle of having fallible protagonists is maintained.