HLC with Focus+TL against 0 agility and no evade tokens is 16 damages in 3 turns.

Some funny math going on there...

What are you speaking about?

(4 · (3/4 + (3/4 · 1/4))) · 3 = 16

Obviously. Flawless math. Mah braincalculator can't lie.

HLC with Focus+TL against 0 agility and no evade tokens is 16 damages in 3 turns.

Some funny math going on there...

Maybe he thinks he keeps the results of the dice he reroll with TL..... should we tell him he's been doing it wrong?

HLC is a 4 dice attack, with target lock & focus you'll end up with 4 hits most of the time, maybe not every time, but more often than not l find it does. If you want to be specific:

4 hits .77

3 hits .20

2 hits .02

That's 12-16 hits, averaging 14, the Falcon has 13 health. The worst you're likely to do is generally 12 hits in 3 rounds, and there's a good chance that another of your ships attacks, or a bomb, will add to that.

That's 12-16 hits, averaging 14, the Falcon has 13 health. The worst you're likely to do is generally 12 hits in 3 rounds

Think about what you just said. Ignoring double-damage crits a 4-dice attack can do a maximum of 4 damage per turn (all hits and no evades), which means that over 3 turns of shooting the maximum you can do is 12. You just claimed that your average is 14! Either you're actually talking about damage over four or more turns, or you think that a HLC has more than four red dice.

That's 12-16 hits, averaging 14, the Falcon has 13 health. The worst you're likely to do is generally 12 hits in 3 rounds

Think about what you just said. Ignoring double-damage crits a 4-dice attack can do a maximum of 4 damage per turn (all hits and no evades), which means that over 3 turns of shooting the maximum you can do is 12. You just claimed that your average is 14! Either you're actually talking about damage over four or more turns, or you think that a HLC has more than four red dice.

Still, when you add in additional damage from your squad, bombs, and any possible extra damage from HLC TL reroll crits, you're still have a good chance to finish the falcon in 3 turns, and you're almost guaranteed to do it in 4.

I can't believe we went on for like 10 posts because someone thought 3x4=14.

A fair indicator of how much (little) people generally read the posts before replying perhaps?

I can't believe we went on for like 10 posts because someone thought 3x4=14.

Actually, it started with 3x4=16.

Which I thought was actually a typo so I posted a joke. Funny there was an equation behind it.

HLC with Focus+TL against 0 agility and no evade tokens is 16 damages in 3 turns.

Some funny math going on there...

Maybe he thinks he keeps the results of the dice he reroll with TL..... should we tell him he's been doing it wrong?

What do you think I'm doing with the Target Lock reroll that's wrong?

HLC is a 4 dice attack, with target lock & focus you'll end up with 4 hits most of the time, maybe not every time, but more often than not l find it does. If you want to be specific:

4 hits .77

3 hits .20

2 hits .02

That's 12-16 hits, averaging 14, the Falcon has 13 health. The worst you're likely to do is generally 12 hits in 3 rounds, and there's a good chance that another of your ships attacks, or a bomb, will add to that.

You are also assuming that the Falcon player will be in arc in all 3 rounds.

Unless he's asleep or completely bonkers, that will never be the case.

Maybe 3P0 should give a stress if you guess correctly, or something like that.

I mean, that WOULD be pretty canon, as C3P0 WAS pretty annoying.

Or incorrectly. FFG doesn't errata unless in extreme circumstances though due to the nightmare of changing all the cards.

They will restrict before they ban, and they tend to only errata cards to work as intended or to get them off the banned list. Threepio isn't even close to needing a ban. It is obviously debatable about whether something needs to be restricted. Personally, the easiest and simplest would to restrict the Falcon title and Threepio. But, I look at how Netrunner doesn't have a restricted list, and what caused SWLCG to get a restricted, and I have a tough time seeing a restricted list coming.

So, recap:

I lost to 3PO once, didn't like how I felt about it, ergo it should be banned or restricted.

Got it.

Didn't he say he lost to 3P0/MF a few times before he tried the swarm?

I do agree with his point that it really limits what lists can still be competitive when so many players are using some permutation of Fat Han/Chewie or a Phantom, but waves 5&6 will probably put an end to that. Personally, I hate the idea of FOTM builds and archetypes that everyone uses.

I dunno, the way I see wave 5, it would put an end to the falcon problem by simply introducing the outrider, which is in every aspect better than the falcon we currently have. Better quality attack (HLC turret vs current primary weapon turret), more tanky (13hp protected by 1 agi vs 10hp protected by 2 agi), more maneuverable (much better dial), and arguably better pilot abilities.

So if you ask me if people would stop playing the falcon once wave 5 hits, I would definitely say Yes, but not for the reasons you think.

EDIT: in fact, players in my area who have gotten wave 5 have been playing falcon + outrider, and their lists are honestly unstoppable, except when facing against another falcon + outrider. Nothing stands a chance against them, and I'm not crying about sky falling here. If anything, it has already fallen long ago with wave 4.

I dunno, the way I see wave 5, it would put an end to the falcon problem by simply introducing the outrider, which is in every aspect better than the falcon we currently have. Better quality attack (HLC turret vs current primary weapon turret), more tanky (13hp protected by 1 agi vs 10hp protected by 2 agi), more maneuverable (much better dial), and arguably better pilot abilities.

So if you ask me if people would stop playing the falcon once wave 5 hits, I would definitely say Yes, but not for the reasons you think.

EDIT: in fact, players in my area who have gotten wave 5 have been playing falcon + outrider, and their lists are honestly unstoppable, except when facing against another falcon + outrider. Nothing stands a chance against them, and I'm not crying about sky falling here. If anything, it has already fallen long ago with wave 4.

Are you saying they are running the falcon with the outrider title on it, or a falcon and an outrider?

I suspect you mean the 2 ship build, but I have to ask.

And 2 ship builds are not unstoppable. Quite the opposite.

I dunno, the way I see wave 5, it would put an end to the falcon problem by simply introducing the outrider, which is in every aspect better than the falcon we currently have. Better quality attack (HLC turret vs current primary weapon turret), more tanky (13hp protected by 1 agi vs 10hp protected by 2 agi), more maneuverable (much better dial), and arguably better pilot abilities.

So if you ask me if people would stop playing the falcon once wave 5 hits, I would definitely say Yes, but not for the reasons you think.

EDIT: in fact, players in my area who have gotten wave 5 have been playing falcon + outrider, and their lists are honestly unstoppable, except when facing against another falcon + outrider. Nothing stands a chance against them, and I'm not crying about sky falling here. If anything, it has already fallen long ago with wave 4.

Good point, a Fat Han / HLC Outrider would be frightening, but I wasn't really talking about the Falcon itself, more the MF/3P0 combo, and the limited number of counters as an Imperial. With wave 5 we'll be getting Isard (the anti-3P0), Mara, Fleet Officer, and of course, the Decimator, which I think will open up more viable lists to deal with or equate to those Falcon/3P0 and Outrider lists.

The falcon isn't falling off it's pedestal till wave 6 even rebel aces make fat chewie builds better.

Wave 5 doesn't change the reason i don't like Fat Falcon's meta, and it is the large base ships with turrets. So wave 5 does very little to improve it in my case. I am hopeful about wave 6 tho, and it is not really that far away.

I dunno, the way I see wave 5, it would put an end to the falcon problem by simply introducing the outrider, which is in every aspect better than the falcon we currently have. Better quality attack (HLC turret vs current primary weapon turret), more tanky (13hp protected by 1 agi vs 10hp protected by 2 agi), more maneuverable (much better dial), and arguably better pilot abilities.

So if you ask me if people would stop playing the falcon once wave 5 hits, I would definitely say Yes, but not for the reasons you think.

EDIT: in fact, players in my area who have gotten wave 5 have been playing falcon + outrider, and their lists are honestly unstoppable, except when facing against another falcon + outrider. Nothing stands a chance against them, and I'm not crying about sky falling here. If anything, it has already fallen long ago with wave 4.

What lists are they running?

I've played against a Chewie/Outrider list with Etahn, a Y-Wing, and 2 Rookies and it came down to the last hull and I lost, but that's with Etahn's ability being nearly useless and me walking away knowing exactly what I'd do the next time.

Dash with the outrider/HCL and any named falcon is 90 point before upgrades. Han allows six points. A Fringer plus Chewie gives the maximum flexibility of 16 points for upgrades , but leaves a pretty big chance to exploit the donut. (-1 on all that for the falcon title)

For those that are seriously worried about the turrets and are hopeful that six will help, be glad that W6 is 3 months away and not a year or whatever it used to be.

If anything changes this meta it may be the auto blaster turret that is coming out. If it works the way I and others hope/think it does it effectively counters Big Bird, Nimble Dash, and Phantoms. If it's over costed the way I'm afraid it will be then, welp, we'll be at this for a while.

You know, looking back to my childhood and aaaaalllll the time I watched Star Wars Episode IV-V-VI.... I could never have guessed that one day in my life, I would hear/read someone say that 3PO is overpowered... ever!

Personaly, I love what the designers are doing and where the game is going. I see a lot of diversity in the futur. I agree that for now, we do see a lot of Falcon, more than my taste. It is currently the list to beat. But you know what, it might be the child in me speaking, but I think it is freakin awesome that THE Millenium Falcon is threat, a ship to fear and hate going up against. It's the Falcon for God sake. I don't want to see it be a ship easy to destroy, I don't want it to be a ship you know you will win if you go against.

The new designers now seems to have a definite goal: Make all ships and upgrades relevant. A good exemple is Expose. With Experimental Interface, Now Expose can be a valide choice under the right circumstances. Their other goal is to make the named pilots a better choice over the grunts. And for now it works, and they just took over with wave 4 and the Huge ships. Give them some time.

Before wave 4, what was the big builds? Tie Swarm, BBXX... The philosophy was easy: the more ship you bring the better. Unless your ship was highly maneuvrable, PS was only a luxury, nothing to really be bother with and consider during team building. If you can save some points by droping to a lower PS and squeeze in another ship, you do it. Now, thanks to the Phantom, PS is a thing to really consider. Not only because you might go against a Phantom, but because the other players are also raising their average PS to counter the eventual Phantom. You also have Predator to take into account. Should I go with a PS1 ship and allow my opponent to reroll 2 dice or go with at least PS3. There will also be 'stay on target' to help the high PS pilots against the blockers or lower PS highly maneuvrable craft. PS never been as important as it is right now.

Before wave 4, what was THE way to fly? Formation. ''Stay in attack formation''. Again, enter the Phantom and his ease to dodge fire and if you keep in formation, you're screwed. He'll eat you alive. Now you have EPT like Lonewolf that encourage you to stay away from the group.They are encouraging people to fly differently, to try to get a line of sight everywhere so there is no place for the Phantom to hide. And here come the Falcon and 360 turrets. He's the natural hunter for the Phantom, like the Outrider and Decimator will be. But you know what is a very good counter to those ships? Formation flying. Their bases are big, EU, BR or not. Funny that it is just now that it considered a threat: The Falcon could boost with PtL and Falcon title since it came in the game. Was the Falcon ever a problem in tournaments? No. So why now that 3P0 is out, suddenly the Falcon is unbeatable. Is 1 guaranteed evade per turn (one that he might have rolled anyway) really is all too powerful for some to handle? Is suddenly, don't ask me why, 3 attack dice per round with gunner a guaranteed one kill per turn? The Falcon is what it was since wave 2, he just happen to be lucky and roll an evade for his first roll, something that could happen before.

Before Wave 4, I considered the Falcon too easy to destroy for the points you paid for it. I was glad to go against it because I knew it would be an easy one. Now, thanks to 3P0 (and later Lando), I think they did hit a perfect balance to make it the beast it should be. I fear it, like pilots should fear the Millenium Falcon, but I know I can beat it. 50-50. That should make for a good match-up.

If you take the time to consider that 50+pts ships with turrets will be an important part of the game and here to stay, you might want to consider building with them in minds, because they are now an official threat. Hit them harder and faster. Funny, by making the big turret ships an official threat, they might have give you a reason to actually equip a missile or torpedo once in while. Homing missile cancel the Evade token and let you keep your target lock to reroll your dice. Flechette Torpedo automatically give a stress token so he won't PtL this turn. Also, with munition failsafe, do you really think that the Falcon player will try to dodge the shot and allow you to shoot it again next turn? Tough choice. And it only cost 2 points, 3 with Munition Failsafe.

I don't really know what to say. I think the designers, since they took over, are really making a good game and, unless you decide to follow the herd, there never was as many good option available to make a team to my liking depending on what I want to fly as of right now. And looking at what Wave 5-6 is bringing, I just can't wait to see what's next in store. Do something about 3PO? Yes, bring more cards like it that f**** things up and force us to try something else instead of there being only one way to win: As many ship as possible flying in formation.

You know, looking back to my childhood and aaaaalllll the time I watched Star Wars Episode IV-V-VI.... I could never have guessed that one day in my life, I would hear/read someone say that 3PO is overpowered... ever!

Personaly, I love what the designers are doing and where the game is going. I see a lot of diversity in the futur. I agree that for now, we do see a lot of Falcon, more than my taste. It is currently the list to beat. But you know what, it might be the child in me speaking, but I think it is freakin awesome that THE Millenium Falcon is threat, a ship to fear and hate going up against. It's the Falcon for God sake. I don't want to see it be a ship easy to destroy, I don't want it to be a ship you know you will win if you go against.

The new designers now seems to have a definite goal: Make all ships and upgrades relevant. A good exemple is Expose. With Experimental Interface, Now Expose can be a valide choice under the right circumstances. Their other goal is to make the named pilots a better choice over the grunts. And for now it works, and they just took over with wave 4 and the Huge ships. Give them some time.

Before wave 4, what was the big builds? Tie Swarm, BBXX... The philosophy was easy: the more ship you bring the better. Unless your ship was highly maneuvrable, PS was only a luxury, nothing to really be bother with and consider during team building. If you can save some points by droping to a lower PS and squeeze in another ship, you do it. Now, thanks to the Phantom, PS is a thing to really consider. Not only because you might go against a Phantom, but because the other players are also raising their average PS to counter the eventual Phantom. You also have Predator to take into account. Should I go with a PS1 ship and allow my opponent to reroll 2 dice or go with at least PS3. There will also be 'stay on target' to help the high PS pilots against the blockers or lower PS highly maneuvrable craft. PS never been as important as it is right now.

Before wave 4, what was THE way to fly? Formation. ''Stay in attack formation''. Again, enter the Phantom and his ease to dodge fire and if you keep in formation, you're screwed. He'll eat you alive. Now you have EPT like Lonewolf that encourage you to stay away from the group.They are encouraging people to fly differently, to try to get a line of sight everywhere so there is no place for the Phantom to hide. And here come the Falcon and 360 turrets. He's the natural hunter for the Phantom, like the Outrider and Decimator will be. But you know what is a very good counter to those ships? Formation flying. Their bases are big, EU, BR or not. Funny that it is just now that it considered a threat: The Falcon could boost with PtL and Falcon title since it came in the game. Was the Falcon ever a problem in tournaments? No. So why now that 3P0 is out, suddenly the Falcon is unbeatable. Is 1 guaranteed evade per turn (one that he might have rolled anyway) really is all too powerful for some to handle? Is suddenly, don't ask me why, 3 attack dice per round with gunner a guaranteed one kill per turn? The Falcon is what it was since wave 2, he just happen to be lucky and roll an evade for his first roll, something that could happen before.

Before Wave 4, I considered the Falcon too easy to destroy for the points you paid for it. I was glad to go against it because I knew it would be an easy one. Now, thanks to 3P0 (and later Lando), I think they did hit a perfect balance to make it the beast it should be. I fear it, like pilots should fear the Millenium Falcon, but I know I can beat it. 50-50. That should make for a good match-up.

If you take the time to consider that 50+pts ships with turrets will be an important part of the game and here to stay, you might want to consider building with them in minds, because they are now an official threat. Hit them harder and faster. Funny, by making the big turret ships an official threat, they might have give you a reason to actually equip a missile or torpedo once in while. Homing missile cancel the Evade token and let you keep your target lock to reroll your dice. Flechette Torpedo automatically give a stress token so he won't PtL this turn. Also, with munition failsafe, do you really think that the Falcon player will try to dodge the shot and allow you to shoot it again next turn? Tough choice. And it only cost 2 points, 3 with Munition Failsafe.

I don't really know what to say. I think the designers, since they took over, are really making a good game and, unless you decide to follow the herd, there never was as many good option available to make a team to my liking depending on what I want to fly as of right now. And looking at what Wave 5-6 is bringing, I just can't wait to see what's next in store. Do something about 3PO? Yes, bring more cards like it that f**** things up and force us to try something else instead of there being only one way to win: As many ship as possible flying in formation.

You sir, are a sage. I wish I had the gall to make multiple accounts just to like your post here.

I dunno, the way I see wave 5, it would put an end to the falcon problem by simply introducing the outrider, which is in every aspect better than the falcon we currently have. Better quality attack (HLC turret vs current primary weapon turret), more tanky (13hp protected by 1 agi vs 10hp protected by 2 agi), more maneuverable (much better dial), and arguably better pilot abilities.

So if you ask me if people would stop playing the falcon once wave 5 hits, I would definitely say Yes, but not for the reasons you think.

EDIT: in fact, players in my area who have gotten wave 5 have been playing falcon + outrider, and their lists are honestly unstoppable, except when facing against another falcon + outrider. Nothing stands a chance against them, and I'm not crying about sky falling here. If anything, it has already fallen long ago with wave 4.

What lists are they running?

we had wave 5 ships for more than a month now so far, what list do you want? XD

on a sidenote, most players here agree that C3P0 should have swapped effects with Leia. At least people wouldnt be that frustrated when it is Leia that is passively kicking their asses instead.

I dunno, the way I see wave 5, it would put an end to the falcon problem by simply introducing the outrider, which is in every aspect better than the falcon we currently have. Better quality attack (HLC turret vs current primary weapon turret), more tanky (13hp protected by 1 agi vs 10hp protected by 2 agi), more maneuverable (much better dial), and arguably better pilot abilities.

So if you ask me if people would stop playing the falcon once wave 5 hits, I would definitely say Yes, but not for the reasons you think.

EDIT: in fact, players in my area who have gotten wave 5 have been playing falcon + outrider, and their lists are honestly unstoppable, except when facing against another falcon + outrider. Nothing stands a chance against them, and I'm not crying about sky falling here. If anything, it has already fallen long ago with wave 4.

What lists are they running?

we had wave 5 ships for more than a month now so far, what list do you want? XD

on a sidenote, most players here agree that C3P0 should have swapped effects with Leia. At least people wouldnt be that frustrated when it is Leia that is passively kicking their asses instead.

I was referring to more specifics or if there are commonalities amongst the falcon/outrider combo that is "unbeatable" or if it's really been that simple for them.

I dunno, the way I see wave 5, it would put an end to the falcon problem by simply introducing the outrider, which is in every aspect better than the falcon we currently have. Better quality attack (HLC turret vs current primary weapon turret), more tanky (13hp protected by 1 agi vs 10hp protected by 2 agi), more maneuverable (much better dial), and arguably better pilot abilities.

So if you ask me if people would stop playing the falcon once wave 5 hits, I would definitely say Yes, but not for the reasons you think.

EDIT: in fact, players in my area who have gotten wave 5 have been playing falcon + outrider, and their lists are honestly unstoppable, except when facing against another falcon + outrider. Nothing stands a chance against them, and I'm not crying about sky falling here. If anything, it has already fallen long ago with wave 4.

What lists are they running?

we had wave 5 ships for more than a month now so far, what list do you want? XD

on a sidenote, most players here agree that C3P0 should have swapped effects with Leia. At least people wouldnt be that frustrated when it is Leia that is passively kicking their asses instead.

I was referring to more specifics or if there are commonalities amongst the falcon/outrider combo that is "unbeatable" or if it's really been that simple for them.

It really is that simple for them. Every time you try to chase down the Outrider, you get rewarded with a HLC in the face, regardless of whether you are able to return fire or not. Even if you are able to return fire, it is most likely about 3 atk dice vs 2-3 agi, depending on range / asteroids. Moreover, Dash has this annoying ability to hide behind asteroids, and Leebo + Determination can really tank crits, so it's pretty much pick your poison. On top of that, you still have a chewy MF C3P0 to worry about. Even the Decimator struggles against the outrider. Consider 3-4 atk dice against the Outrider's 2-3 agi, vs the returning HLC shot 4 atk vs 0 agi (and 1 evade), nothing you could do about it either since it's mathematics at work here.

As for hiding within the "donut", well that is honestly really only doable if you are a ship with boost and higher PS than the Outrider, since a barrel roll on the Outrider would instantly make it jump 1 range band. Even if you are higher PS and highly agile, the Outrider could escape with hard turn 3 / forward 4 into boost, or hard turn 1 + roll, and now it is pretty much impossible to be inside its donut. Meanwhile, every single turn you are eating HLC