I do agree mazz0, i said the same thing on another of these threads about the more QQ less PEW PEW (or whatever they say). Not only is childish, but counter producent.

Are you from perth innocent , I know some one who uses that forum name on a different forum and plays the swarm if it is that person then I have played you many times and I have told you just fly through those asteroids straight at the falcon. This works well with the swarm as the tactic I use with the falcon against swarms is put asteroids as close together and then fly around them as the swarm try's to chase you around them. It's does lose actions and some ships may not be able to shot and you may take hits but the 3po falcon will go down with multiple shots in a single as this lessens the effect of 3po. End of story

But even if he decides not to focus her, they are around 2.5 hits. So it is possible to say the least.

I'm guessing you mean it's possible to one shot a tie... Sure it's possible but unlikely to happen once per round.

Which really makes me think that this game was a result of the gods of chaos and chance deciding to smack down the OP. That or there's something else going on we don't know about.

Mathematically, a tie swarm should be able to kill a Falcon even with 3-CPO in 2-3 rounds provided most of them can get a shot. If you're blocking it the amount of damage it does goes down, 4 unfocused dice is going to avg 1.1 damage vs 3 defense, .6 if the target focus and .4 if the target has an evade. Han is not going to really increase that much, because he doesn't get to just reroll misses, he has to reroll everything, so the avg is the same.

Jan is interesting in the list, but honestly poorly made. Blaster Turret + MC title pretty much requires Recon to increase the number of focuses you gain. Otherwise you're either skipping a turn to fire, or else you're not stacking focus.

She's going to give you either 3 attack with focus every other turn for 1.2 damage, or else 3 attack without focus every turn for .7 damage. So either way you're getting maybe 2 damage every other turn. Not enough to kill a tie every turn.

So again the maths say that the Ties should be able to win this most times, provided you can get enough shots in on Han, and with 7 ties vs 2 ships, there's little reason to fly in formation. Split up so you can keep the YT in more arc's.

That's five attack dice, with Han's re-roll and Gunner (and Han's re-roll again). I can totally see that killing a TIE per turn.

5 dice with Focus does 2.7 damage per turn, without focus its 1.6 vs 3 defense with no focus/evade.

Now I may be way off because probability is not my strong suit... But Han doesn't shouldn't increase the avg damage done, because he is rolling the dice fresh, rather then rerolling only blanks or focuses you can't convert. Same goes for Gunner, it just gives you another chance to roll the dice.

That means Han should be approaching the average damage more often, but shouldn't be rolling better then it, like you do with a TL.

Why is anyone replying on this thread? Drawing any conclusions based on a one-game sample is completely, utterly, totally, metaphysically meaningless.

5 dice with Focus does 2.7 damage per turn, without focus its 1.6 vs 3 defense with no focus/evade.

Now I may be way off because probability is not my strong suit... But Han doesn't shouldn't increase the avg damage done, because he is rolling the dice fresh, rather then rerolling only blanks or focuses you can't convert. Same goes for Gunner, it just gives you another chance to roll the dice.

That means Han should be approaching the average damage more often, but shouldn't be rolling better then it, like you do with a TL.

Actually I think it does increase the average damage, as it's removing some low rolls and no high ones. Sure, some of the re-rolls will be low again, but some won't, and given that the only things being replaced are low rolls the average must be increasing. If that weren't so then people wouldn't pay the points for Han and Gunner.

Actually I think it does increase the average damage, as it's removing some low rolls and no high ones.

But that doesn't change the avg, it just brings it closer to the avg. The reason why you take Han and Gunner, is to give you some control by letting you get closer to the avg damage done.

I do like how the Falcon has taken the edge off of the upcoming Farlandercolypse. Heck, slap a HLC on him and watch the Falcon burn...

But that doesn't change the avg, it just brings it closer to the avg. The reason why you take Han and Gunner, is to give you some control by letting you get closer to the avg damage done.

If you remove lows but not highs then the average goes up, surely?

To describe this graphically:

Normal average:

low | l l l l l l l l ^ l l l l l l l l | high

Average with some lows removed:

low | l l l l l l ^ l l l l l l | high

So the average goes up, right?

If you remove lows but not highs then the average goes up, surely?

I think we need someone good at probabilities like MajorJuggler to answer... Because on the one hand that makes sense sure.

But on the other hand, if you roll 1,000 dice and end up with an avg of X, then roll 1,500 dice because you reroll anything below X you'd still end up at X, you're just rolling more dice.

But even if I'm wrong which I fully admit is possible and even likely Han isn't going to do as much to help as a TL will. A TL will take 4 dice from 2.1 vs 0 defense to 3.1 vs 0 defense, so best case Han will add maybe .5 damage or so?

Yeah, TL def better, for a one off attack, but it costs an action, and doesn't apply to your gunner's attack, if you think you're going to make one. Speaking of which, is Jans better in this list than Kyle? I'd have thought extra focus tokens would be awesome on the falcon - either multiple attack uses, or one for defense.

I think you are wrong about the dice. Let's simplify it and look at tossing a coin, you've got a 50% chance of getting heads. If you add the rule that you reflip, once, when you get tails, then you've got a 75% chance of getting heads, 25% tails. So the average (where heads is higher) has gone up.

Also, wouldn't Markmanship be pretty good? Ooh, Marksmanship for attack, plus a focus from Kyle for defense? Oooh....

Although that's barely any better better than Luke, which is cheaper and doesn't use your EPT slot. Ignore me.

Actually I think it does increase the average damage, as it's removing some low rolls and no high ones.

But that doesn't change the avg, it just brings it closer to the avg. The reason why you take Han and Gunner, is to give you some control by letting you get closer to the avg damage done.

It does actually increase the average.

Suppose I give you two six-sided dice and ask you to roll them. You'll get a distribution that looks like this:

2: 2.8%

3: 5.6%

4: 8.3%

5: 11.1%

6: 13.9%

7: 16.7%

8: 13.9%

9: 11.1%

10: 8.3%

11: 5.6%

12: 2.8%

Now suppose you're allowed to reroll the dice if you roll less than 7. Now the distribution looks like this:

2: 1.2%

3: 2.3%

4: 3.5%

5: 4.6%

6: 5.8%

7: 23.6%

8: 19.7%

9: 15.7%

10: 11.8%

11: 7.9%

12: 3.9%

You can calculate the average of those two distributions by multiplying each result by its likelihood, and adding them all together. For the unmodified dice, the average result (that is, the expected value)is 7; for the dice with the reroll, the average is 8.

As mazz0 says, you change the average when you reroll poor results but not good ones. That's what Han's pilot ability does: it removes some of the bad results and adds in good results instead.

Although that's barely any better better than Luke, which is cheaper and doesn't use your EPT slot. Ignore me.

Nah, Marksmanship's better than Luke. Luke is one focus to a hit, when rerolling dice following an attack that has completely missed.. Markmanship is ALL focus to hit & one focus to crit on every attack and roll of the dice over the course of a round.

Han could theoretically get the benefit out of Marksmanship four times, when paired with Gunner.

In terms of sheer offensive output, Marskmanship & Gunner > Luke on Han, for one point more.

Woo, get me getting a maths question right! That doesn't happen often! I'll be spelling "unnecessary" correctly next!

Actually, Luke doesn't do what I thought he did, maybe Marksmanship would be cool. I'll shut up now, the last thing we need is another Fat Han build!

Edit: Ninjad by Gecko!

No Vanor, i meant that both Jan and Han have chances at killing 1 Ties. Both of them shooting at that Tie. Yes, Han could one shot a Tie by himself, but that's luck. Han and Jan killing one tie per turn can happen, it is not less likely than han and jan not killing one tie per turn.

About markmanship, we also have that discussion last thread. Yes, a markmanship + gunner has more firepower than just luke, and slightly more efficient (specially at range 1) that lone wolf/predator + luke. The plus side of predator/lone wolf are obvious on that case. Can get bumped and still use it, or use engine upgrade or evade.

Oh yeah, DreadStar makes a good point.

By the way, I couldn't resist. How's this?

Han Solo
Marksmanship
C-3PO
Gunner
Anti-Pursuit Lasers

Kyle Katarn
Ion Cannon Turret
Moldy Crow

Bandit Squadron Pilot

100pt

Or you could just do the good old HSF

4 points for upgrades. But that's not a fat solo, it is a Han shoot first list from long time ago

Yeah, I was thinking about extra focus, cos I like how that resolves before 3P0 for super defence. That last squad was silly though, as Kyle needs Recon Specialist. Maybe:

Han Solo
Marksmanship
C-3PO
Gunner
Shield Upgrade

Kyle Katarn
Predator
Ion Cannon Turret
Recon Specialist
Moldy Crow
Shield Upgrade

100pt

Meets the fat criteria?

Or you could just do the good old HSF

Han Solo (46)

Marksmanship (3)

Gunner (5)

Rookie Pilot (21)

Rookie Pilot (21)

Total: 96

4 points for upgrades. But that's not a fat solo, it is a Han shoot first list from long time ago

I used to spend the 4 points on the Chewie crew card for Han.

No Vanor, i meant that both Jan and Han have chances at killing 1 Ties. Both of them shooting at that Tie.

Sure, but you have a 4 dice attack that uses Han, and a unmodified 3 dice attack. That's in the best possible case 2.5 or so hits, and that goes down if the target has a focus or evade. If the target of one of those attacks has a focus or evade, Han will shoot first, and Jan may depending on who has Init... Everyone but Howl will have their tokens still... The avg damage drops to about 1.5 Not nearly enough to count on killing a tie per round.

Yeah, there is where i was wrong, i assumed focus on Jan, when she has to use it for the blaster. It is actually quite a horrible list.

It is actually quite a horrible list.

Han isn't bad, and Jan could be useful, but the upgrades on Jan are not the best. You either go with a Ion turret, or you go with blaster turret and recon. Jan + BT + Pred well maybe, but on avg you're going to do maybe a damage or so, same as a Ion without the control Ion's offer.

Then consider the other idea the OP mentioned the guy said, something about 3-CPO, Expose and Experimental Interface. That's 10 points of upgrades you can't use together. If you use EI and Expose you can't use 3-CPO other then range 3 or with an obstructed attack.

Considering the IMO at least poor choices for Jan and the "killer" combo that doesn't work... The guy the OP is playing seems to not have a solid grasp on list building, which makes me wonder if there's other stuff we don't know about going on here. Mistakes both are making that are tilting the game in the other guys favor.