Is it possible we won't fully be able to judge the efficiency of these ships until we know what the other Scum ships and upgrades have to offer as far as support abilities and buffs go?
M3a interceptor and upgrades=foolishness?
Is it possible we won't fully be able to judge the efficiency of these ships until we know what the other Scum ships and upgrades have to offer as far as support abilities and buffs go?
Basically, yeah. We don't even know the cost for the base ships yet.
The jousting values are just based on the stat lines. You still need to know the dial etc to see how well the ship is in practice.
The best we can do is guess and put some bounds on how it should perform.
Edited by MajorJugglerIs it possible we won't fully be able to judge the efficiency of these ships until we know what the other Scum ships and upgrades have to offer as far as support abilities and buffs go?
possibly, but as far as seing how they'll work in a Scyk only squad, we have a lot to go on, and playtest. Since it's an interceptor/swarmer hybrid that needs to offer something different than the Z95, we know it'll probably have a dial similar to a TIE Fighter/Interceptor and A-wing. Looking at the 20 point PS 8, the PS 2 pilot will cost between 12-14 points, and we know the stats of most secondary weapons, except for the new Flechete Cannon and Mang(ler) Canon.I haven't tried it yet, but you could easily proxy a Scyk swarm with Serissu, a group of Heavy Scyks, or Fett and a Scyk mini-swarm.
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Hmmm....Phantom has 1 more point of shields, but everyone is taking it for 30+ points and adding 5+ points of upgrades. So OP argument is kinda... pointless? Hull and shield points is not the whole ship, you have to look at whole package (dial, actions, other ships in fleet) to see if putting carrot on a stick (or cannon on Scyk) is going to work
Yes but with the phantom you get the whole cloaking package which is really good and pair it with acd and it's even better but not on low PS. Hence why you usually only see Echo and whisper. Yes they are only 4 hp but they react really well to any changes from other ships which makes them super unpredictable and last a lot longer. Also you don't see the low pilot skill phantoms being used or putting upgrades on them because of the same reason as I mentioned with the m3a...prolly won't be able to get used much before being destroyed. I actually missed the part about the title adding missiles and Torps but still the original argument stands as far as adding more than 3 points on a ship that will go down quick. I can see adding 1 in as a flanker like mentioned but I dunno about swarms of hlc haha.
I think I'm going to like it. I'd bet on a 3 and 4pt cannon and they'll team nice with 1-2 HLC flankers. They'll be scum interceptors with tricks.
Two Scyks, one with Ion Cannon and the other with Flechette Cannon could make an interesting pair of controllers for around 36 - 38 points.
If you watched the GenCon interview from Team Covenant you will hear the Developers talking about making a MA-3 more of a customizable ship. To where you build it to what you want. Do you want a HLC with the shields of an A-wing. title,+HLC+Shield Upgrade. So you wan't a fast agile ship, engine upgrade. Do you want a swarmy ship don't put anything on it, with the exception of upgrading 1 of them to the 20 point leader.
Talking about upgrades and swarms they do sort of go hand in hand. If you want 8 ties then you have to have 7 academy pilots and 1 black with squad leader, and that's it. Of course everyone knows how good Howlrunner is with swarm tactics but in order to field it you have to drop a Tie. Reminds me of a White Dwarf article back in 2005 when Tyranids got released for 4th edition 40K. THe articale was explaining on the virtues of "Horde" armies and how upgrades essentially kills the horde. It goes with out saying that the number of units you field is inversely proportional to the average point value of the units. Take Headhunters for example. Alone you can put 8 Bandits, but give each bandit a cluster missile and that number drops to 6.
If you wan't allot of ships don't put any upgrades on them. However if you want to make a unit slightly more powerful to give it an advantage in situations like jousting or focusing an opposing ships down, give it some upgrades but remember you are always taking points away from other ships.
people upgrade interceptors all the time. they only have three hull.
Upgraded interceptors can turtle up or arc dodge (push the limit). It is not the same.
Upgraded interceptors can turtle up or arc dodge (push the limit). It is not the same.
not against turrets.Upgraded interceptors can turtle up or arc dodge (push the limit). It is not the same.
Against turrets they can turtle up (evade + focus). It is gunner what gives them fits, not the turrets per se.
add engine upgrade and ptl and you can arc dodge just as well, or just engine upgrade
add engine upgrade and ptl and you can arc dodge just as well, or just engine upgrade
That kinda makes the problem worse; if you can't get out of arc that Engine Upgrade is just 4 more points for your opponent.
Well the thing is that someone said interceptors are better because they can arcdodge. Well the only thing interceptors have over m3a is the boost and the 3 atk.
We will fix the 3atk with a superior 4 atk HLC, or another new canon upgrade. The boost can be fixed by adding a engine upgrade.
Now the turrets are a problem, not really. If you take 4 cheap HLC ships and keep them at range 3, you are at full advantage, they can be at range 2 and still not have a big disadvantage. If 4 ships attack, they will do about 8-9 points of dmg if they focused up (the evade die, evade token and 3po are calculated in this). The counter attack is a lot worst as the falcon, as we are all talking about the falcon anyway, doesn't have focus. So he has to use han's ability for the re-rolls. No clue about those maths, but with focus on the m3a's on range 3, I'm fairly confident they won't die in 1 turn and even if they did (low PS is the biggest problem here), you'd end up with less attack and need 2 or 3 turns to kill the falcon.
I believe this build will make falcon lists a lot less popular, the risk of running into your worst nightmare is big. But then again, you are talking about a list that will lose from a lot of lists with more bodies, more firepower die etc.
I see the m3a HLC as a nice flanker, depending on the other canons it will either see a solid support option with ion canon and stress turrets, maybe two teaming with the HWK pilots and a lot of naked to make 2 different ships for the swarm to make a nice adaptable swarm
All this talk about scum has put me into the old "i can't wait for x-mass" buzz
It's a feeling I haven't had for many many years
We know very little about the Scyk at the moment, apart from that the designers figure it's a two role ship: you run it completely unupgraded as a TIE fighter tier ship or can upgrade it to a TIE interceptor tier ship. Given that, I think its going to be unlikely that it's wholly impractical upgraded.
Based on the info we have, it is vaguely similar to the A wing. The A wing is a cheapish, fast missile platform that can be customized down with the Chardaan Refit to more it a flanker/swarmer role. The Scyk is a swarmer that can be customized up to a heavy weapons platform.