Thinking about Accuracy Corrector...

By TheDarkPilot, in X-Wing Rules Questions

It says to cancel all dice results...

Does that count as a hit or not...

If not does that mean i could use Accuracy Corrector and, since i canceled all dice can, use Gunner?

Im a bit in between here...

The hits i get are not from my attack...

I "cancel" my attack...

But i add 2 to my roll (like i rolled 4 dice for example)

So does adding these hits to my roll count as a normal hit result?

I swear soon or later my head just explodes....

Edited by TheDarkPilot

I believe that for an attack to be a miss, all booms and kabooms have to be cancelled "by defense dice" (and evade tokens). If other effects, such as ion weapons or the accuracy corrector cancel the results that doesn't count. If there are uncancelled (ka)booms after defense dice have done their job it us a hit.

Blount being an exception, of course.

(We need a decent colloquial name for the wavey line result defense dice, like boom and kaboom on attack dice. )

Focus, Hit, Crit, and Evade Reaults are probably good names.

Accuracy corrector works like this.

You roll attack dice and then defender rolls defense dice. At the start if step 6 Compare results, effects that cancel dice results must be resolved. AC is the first card in the game I think that does this*
You now can choose to cancel all attack dice and then add 2 Hit results.
Then you compare results and cancel Hit and then Crit with Evade results as normal

* Ion weapons cancel ALL dice results after you cancel Hit and Crit with Evade Results, and are not subject to the rule that states cancelling effects resolve at the start of step 6

Edited by StephenEsven

It says to cancel all dice results...

Does that count as a hit or not...

If not does that mean i could use Accuracy Corrector and, since i canceled all dice can, use Gunner?

Im a bit in between here...

The hits i get are not from my attack...

I "cancel" my attack...

But i add 2 to my roll (like i rolled 4 dice for example)

So does adding these hits to my roll count as a normal hit result?

I swear soon or later my head just explodes....

Look at it this way. You roll for your attack and roll rubbish. You don't have any tokens that may help, so you decide to use Accuracy Corrector. You cancel whatever you rolled and replace it with two solid hits. The defender then gets to see if he can evade those two hits.

The keyword on the card is "results". When you roll dice, you are generating "results". AC is just giving you the option of swapping some rubbish "results" for some good "results". When the defender rolls his dice, he's also generating results, but can add evade tokens as extra "results".

For example: Attacker rolls {blank} {focus} {hit}, and ( you don't have a focus token or a target lock ). Use AC and you replace you original roll with {hit} {hit}. Defender rolls {blank} {evade} and has an evade token that he adds.

Final results to compare = {hit} {hit} vs {blank} {evade} {evade} = defender dodges and the attack misses .

Because you've missed, you can use Gunner as that's a separate attack. If you roll rubbish again, you can use AC again.

The use of AC comes after modifying defense dice so:

For example: Attacker rolls {blank} {focus} {hit}, and ( you don't have a focus token or a target lock ). Use AC and you replace you original roll with {hit} {hit}. Defender rolls {blank} {evade} and has an evade token that he adds.

Final results to compare = {hit} {hit} vs {blank} {evade} {evade} = defender dodges and the attack misses .

Because you've missed, you can use Gunner as that's a separate attack. If you roll rubbish again, you can use AC again.

For example: Attacker rolls {blank} {focus} {hit}, and (you don't have a focus token or a target lock). Defender rolls {blank} {evade} and has an evade token that he adds.
Use AC and you replace you original roll with {hit} {hit} .
Final results to compare = {hit} {hit} vs {blank} {evade} {evade} = defender dodges and the attack misses.
Because you've missed, you can use Gunner as that's a separate attack. If you roll rubbish again, you can use AC again.
It's a subtle difference, but if could affect the defenders choice of spending en evade token. Even more so if you actually rolled say 3 Hits and the defender gets 2 Evades. You could use AC to miss and then trigger Gunner/Luke
Edited by StephenEsven

The use of AC comes after modifying defense dice so:

...

It's a subtle difference, but if could affect the defenders choice of spending en evade token. Even more so if you actually rolled say 3 Hits and the defender gets 2 Evades. You could use AC to miss and then trigger Gunner/Luke

I actually don't think that is correct. I believe that Accuracy Corrector needs to be used during the Modify Attack Dice step (with the clue being the last line on the card "Your dice cannot be modified again during this attack.").

That could just be insurance against possible effects that modify dice outside of the normal modify dice step. Future-proofing, if you will.

While most effects that modify attack dice happen during step 3, Heavy Laser Cannon modify attack dice in step 2.


So there is precedence that effects that modify dice results can happen outside step 3.



So far, cards that cancel dice results are R4-D2, Ion Cannon, Ion Cannon Turret and Ion Pulse Missile. These all happen in step 6, but not due to the rules in the rulebook, since they all happen after you determine if you hit the defender.



Accuracy Corrector simply state "When attacking, you may cancel all of your dice results"



And the rulebook clearly states on page 12, last sentence "All abilities that allow players to cancel dice must be resolved at the start of the “Compare Results” step."



Combined with the possibility that future cards might be able to modify dice results in step 6, the last sentence actually does make sense.


Fair enough... hadn't thought all the way through that one.

When would someone actually use it?

B-wing E2 with Gunner and AC.

Use it to get a miss and trigger gunner.

B-wing with autoblaster and AC. Change your double crit roll to 2 jits if the enemy would be able ro evade the crits

I am sure there are other combos.

But also use it when you roll 0 or 1 hits.

It would be awsome an any 2 attack dice ship, though at pressent the only ships that can use it has a 3 dice attack. Still good if you are deprived of actions since 3 dice will often produce less then 2 hits if you have no modifiers.

That will still be the case with the Virago.

Unmofified you have a 25% chance of producing 0 or 1 hit/crit

The use of AC comes after modifying defense dice so:

...

It's a subtle difference, but if could affect the defenders choice of spending en evade token. Even more so if you actually rolled say 3 Hits and the defender gets 2 Evades. You could use AC to miss and then trigger Gunner/Luke

I actually don't think that is correct. I believe that Accuracy Corrector needs to be used during the Modify Attack Dice step (with the clue being the last line on the card "Your dice cannot be modified again during this attack.").

The use of AC comes after modifying defense dice so:

...

It's a subtle difference, but if could affect the defenders choice of spending en evade token. Even more so if you actually rolled say 3 Hits and the defender gets 2 Evades. You could use AC to miss and then trigger Gunner/Luke

I actually don't think that is correct. I believe that Accuracy Corrector needs to be used during the Modify Attack Dice step (with the clue being the last line on the card "Your dice cannot be modified again during this attack.").

I have to agree. I mean if AC was to cancel all dice results that means the defender get 0 evades while attacker get 2 hits. I think it is in the attacker modifies attack dice step. However I am sure once wave 6 gets closer FFG will release a new FAQ that may clarify it.

Accuracy Corrector only cancels your dice. It does nothing to the defense dice, no matter when it triggers.

From a conversation with Parravon (written by me):

You might be right, that the designer intended the card to be used in step 3. This being the first card that allows a player to cancel dice, the designer might not have had the dice canceling rule in mind when designing the card.

And this might lead to an FAQ that states the card is used in step 3.

But as it is right now, there is precedence that dice can be modified outside step 3, and there is a rule that states that abilities that allow the user to cancel dice must be resolved at the start of step 6.

Which is what I am basing my interpretation of the card timing on.

HLC modifies dice in step 2, which is what I am referring to above.

And AC is the first card to allow a user to cancel dice. R4-D6 and ion effects that cancel dice are triggered by an attack hitting, not by the players choice.

Edited by StephenEsven

If you do damage to the enemy, whether that's hull or shield damage, your attack hits. Think of it this way; you shoot 3 shots (3 dice). One is a blank and is way off course, no way it's gonna hit. The other two dice are moving towards the enemy (two hits).

Then the enemy tries to evade. Say hey rolls two evades; he successfully dodges each hit. If he dodges one and the other hits, his ship is now hit because that dice wasn't canceled.

If any dice are not evaded, you cannot use gunner.

TL;DR: if it hurts, it hits. AC doesn't automatically mean you don't hit.

If you do damage to the enemy, whether that's hull or shield damage, your attack hits.

This is a very common, but wrong, shorthand.

Damage and "hit" have nothing to do with each other. You can suffer damage without being hit, and you can be hit without suffering damage.

Hit is determined solely by whether there are hit or critical hit results remaining after the defender has used his evade results to cancel attack dice. While there is some flux over when Accuracy Corrector does its thing, both possible options are before you cancel dice, and certainly before you determine whether a hit has occurred.

If you do damage to the enemy, whether that's hull or shield damage, your attack hits.

This is a very common, but wrong, shorthand.

Damage and "hit" have nothing to do with each other. You can suffer damage without being hit, and you can be hit without suffering damage.

Hit is determined solely by whether there are hit or critical hit results remaining after the defender has used his evade results to cancel attack dice. While there is some flux over when Accuracy Corrector does its thing, both possible options are before you cancel dice, and certainly before you determine whether a hit has occurred.

Damaged via bombs, slicer's tools, or abilities. Hit via Blount. Those are kinda different scenarios, and I'm trying to make it simple so we can avoid confusion here.

and I'm trying to make it simple so we can avoid confusion here.

While that is a worthwhile thing to do.

Equating a hit to damage causes more confusion then it clears up, especially now with so many effects in the game that can either cause damage and not be a hit, or be a hit even if there's no damage done.

For a good while the signature example was draw their fire. If a ship uses DTF and pulls the last kaboom result away from the target, so that no results remain, the DTF ship takes the damage, but the targeted ship was still "hit".

Saying that damage equals hit confuses a lot of new people in that scenario who then think assault missiles don't go off, or are centered on the DTF instead of the original target, or that the original target doesn't loose a stealth device.

And it's only going to get worse, as Xizor arrives with his "No no, YOU have this hit, I insist!" ability.

Damage=Hit has never been a reliable shorthand, and it's getting less and less.

And it's only going to get worse, as Xizor arrives

Didn't really look at that before, but it's DtF in reverse. Which is fitting, but also kind of funny to think about how that would work... Xizor drawing fire so he ducks behind another ship and lets that one get shot.

With the new Unguided Rockets, would accuracy corrector be a modification of the dice?

Canceling the dice is not, but adding the two hits is. So no point to accuracy corrector on unguided rockets, unless you want to miss.