To begin I'd like to thank you for the replies in advance . I play Black Crusade with a friend, but we are the only gamers we are comfortable with, so we tend to swap out being GM. He doesn't like me being a psyker and claims I'm overpowered and broken. Personally I've always wanted to play a rpg as some form of mage. So when he introduced me to Black Crusade I quickly grabbed a "magic" class. Skipping minor details we finally began gaming. Almost instantly he bins questioning my powers and any defense I pose is swept away. So for starters:

1. Does psy resistance, resist all spells or only the spells listed that can be opposed.

2. When rolling for damage for Force Storm do u roll once or for each successful hit?

3. When using flicker, can u still use powers or do u need the gift "Dimensional Instability".

4. From Tome of Fate the "Shimmering Robes" have a protection rating based off your psy rating. If your psy rating is reduced by say a null rod or ur GM being a jerk, or an untouchable one just popping up in the warp.

5. What psy rating would say magnus or Ahriman have. He tells me my hard achieved psy rating even at 10 would be insignificant compared to theirs. I'm ok with this if I could just understand how much of a difference. (That one is more opinion I suppose.)

6. If ur psy rating is 10 and u receive the mark of Tzeentch or warpsmith, would ur psy rating stay at 10 or rise even higher? And if it doesn't rise should it be considered a reroll. If it does can it be attained again? Does it still follow the WP bonus+ CP bonus?

7. In tome of Blood, the bloodthirster is listed but nowhere on his chart is listed either the collar of khorne or blood gods contempt, do they still receive such bonuses for being "Khorne's elite"?

8. This one's off subject, should the keeper of Secrets have step aside? It's not listed.

9. Is the Force Storm truly... ridiculously broken? Force Bolt does 1d10+2+(2×pr) pen 0. Force Storm does 1d10+(3×pr) pen 0. He claims it should do the same as Force Bolt because it's "the same power" I get what he's saying but I look at it as a different weapon altogether, having its own rules as well as increased difficulty in casting. (Ps it can all still be dodged...)

10. I read a forum previously where a FFG important feller said that the manifesting of the spell is its test on hitting and should be considered a hit if successful. Is this a body hit or do the same rules for location apply? (Can't remember of he mentions it.)

11. Psychic Scream is considered a bolt meaning it can be dodged, I'm baffled as to how that is possible.

12. On a force weapon can u channel ur power through the weapon on each hit or only one per round? Tbh I could understand that being nerfed xD grab lightning and warptime or shattertime, or precognitive strike... it's all over for anyone in cqc.

13. Can a force weapon be turned into a daemon weapon? How about armour?

14. Can precision telekinesis open locks or other stuff like that or am I misreading the "in any situation where the task in question would require a characteristic test" I think it would be really funny to win a conversation t hr ought that but I would never do it because it wouldn't make sense lol.

15. Lastly I like to think of Psyscience as sort of like the force a sense anything sorta deal but I'm prob wrong.

I can't think of any of our other arguments atm. Anywho I know it's a lot and I'll add anymore if I can think of em and thanks for taking the time to respond. He believes psykers are broken and can do anything, personally I think I give up a lot for the powers.

1. Opposed only

2. Yes

3. You cannot do anything but sustain the Flicker unless you have any special abilities.

4. It uses your effective PR. Same goes for force weapons.

5. Over 10, but the exact number depends on what role do you have for such a powerful NPC in your game.

6. It gets over 10. If you get PR higher than WPb+Cb for whatever reason, you still get it but cannot purchase new PR for xp until your WPb+Cb climbs higher than curent PR.

7. You can houserule that

8. You can houserule that

9. It is a strong offensive power, but there are some powers for PR5+ psykers which make it look not broken at all.

10. Not sure but I'd go with hit locations.

11. You can houserule that

12. Each hit. There is a reason these are difficult to obtain.

13. Yes, if GM allows it.

14. If it is an electronic lock or the keys are visible, yeah, you might use the power to type the needed combination or levitate the key to the lock and open it. Creative sorcerer can use it for multiple things from pulling pins off from grenades on enemy body to sewing a wound without dropping his bolter... unless you houserule that.

15. Re-read the description of this skill and when a GM can call for testing it.

Thanks for the quick response xD lol I posted then went to bed and woke up to the response xD very helpful

Although since we are "co-GM's" we argue about # 7&8. I want to follow RAW, and he wants to bolster thier defense towards me. I think a 3rd party opinion would help us settle our disagreements.

It's up for you to decide, just keep game balance and fun for players in mind/

Far as I know Bloodthirsters don't wear Collars.

BYE

If you look at the new Tome of Decay there is an item mentioned named an Obsidian Star which provides a better effect. Paraphrasing the wording it states that a Collar of Khorne is for slaves and servants and not fitting of the glory for a champion of Khorne. The Obsidian Star therefore is a nice fancy adornment which truly shows they are favoured by the Blood God and is an upgrade for Daemon Princes. This is likely what Bloodthirsters will have which provides the similar benefit.

In terms of Psy Rating, the scale seems to cap out at 10 however there are examples in previous books of higher and it is possible to obtain this however you can only purchase up to 10 levels. IIRC one from Dark Heresy Ascension of a Beta Level Psyker which had PR12 (or it might have been 14) however there is a possibility of higher. Ahramin though I would still cap him around the 12-14 mark. There are however ways of going much higher (right gifts and a devastating power combo someone pointed out to me in another thread which is horribly powerful but has a nasty backlash).

I would also disagree with the use of multiple channelings per round and I generally house rule that you only get to apply it to one hit. This becomes especially important if you hit multiple enemies in melee with a single sweep and you are required to manifest your killing will through the blade only into one target. This is also similar to how TT works in that you may only use it on a single wound inflicted. It would force you to prioritise your target.

It is also very much possible to make force weapons daemonic. In fact there is a thread here about someone who takes a master crafted force sword (with all benefits thereof), forges a legacy with it (for all further benefits) before finally imbuing with a trapped daemon. The resulting combination, while technically possible, is horrifically potent and would require several skill tests to use and even more rolls if it ever hit anything to avoid killing a target in dozens of ways.

Precision telekinesis I would say you can't use it on a lock. This is because pulling pins on a grenade is one thing "I can see he has grenades and a priming pin therefore I silently and stealthily manipulate the pin", picking a lock is a whole new game entirely. You cannot see the entirity of the lock, all the pins and know exactly what combination the pins need to be in so that you may open the door and would veto that.

Psyniscience, by Nurgle's horrible breath hate the way it's been applied in BC in that they made it a basic skill for any untreated pleb to try and use. No. Get lost. Joe Bloggs human cannot necessarily detect that the universes most powerful psyker is stood right next to them unless that psyker starts manifesting things and even then unless it's obvious, I wouldn't say they should be able to know a thing that the man sat reading a newspaper next to him is simultaneously opening a warp rift in the sky. First off, I immediately state that this skill is an advanced skill.

There's a reason Psykers are so powerful: There's the slight chance that every time they tap into their power, it goes spectacularly, badly wrong.

If you cannot take the time to write out two extra symbols for "you", how can you expect someone to take the time to answer 15 questions?

Thanks Calgor, I had not thought to check the Tome of Decay. See that was what I thought, u could only purchase up to 10, but being awarded would stack onto that. As far as the daemon force weapon, that was actually my route as well xD I just thought it would be Hella op hitting all of the top tiers. Upset about precision telekinesis but ur explanation does make sense. I can see ur reasoning with the channeling. As far as the Psyscience skill, it just feels strange to me.

@Fdgsfg it was really late when I had posted the thread, I figured it wouldn't be too much of a hassle, and I did title it "Lots of questions about Psykers!!". I don't expect every single person that reads this to answer every single question, I'm just trying to get a third party view so our game can continue.

@Elruindel I tried explaining that but it's hard to get him to see my potential peril when he's focused on my damage output. And I usually built for safety first getting the talents for reroll and Warplock. So far the worst Psychic Phenomenon/Perils of the Warp I have had to endure was a Grand Possession. My friend had stated that he didn't trust my rolls cuz I always got off unscathed or close to it so I opted for him to roll for me and that happened. It was quickly overruled when it turned out to be a Great Unclean one.

I tried switching up my tactics so he would play more in combat but then he got upset when I did just as well in combat as I did out. I don't want to stop playing with him cuz when we get the ball rolling we have so much fun. It's just that initial kick off...

I disagree with your GM on psykers but at the same time it almost sounds like you're trying to justify or soften the blow of the class to make it more acceptable. Am I right or wrong?

Psyker classes can be horribly destructive and flexible. With many of the items from Tome of Fate and Tome of Decay they can easily become beings which can use their power to scour life from an entire city or use the warp to reknit flesh and bone back together, bewitch and enslave the minds of thousands with but a single word before flaying a man alive with fierce eldrich power while stripping the flesh from his bone. Some meanwhile become powerful masters of arcane and deep forbidden knowledge which is best left to other beings and can drive a man to insanity by even knowing. Is a psyker therefore powerful? Yes. Is a psyker broken? No.

A psyker is the only character archetype who has a method of death which cannot be evaded by any form (00 on perils table, Annihilation) and so are very easily a glass cannon. You also have the potential to make things a million times worse for yourself and the party. Try to divine the future and push that power too much and you might find a Bloodletter pop in or a greater daemon possessing your physical form. There are no other archetypes which have the same immense risk to themselves and their allies present at all times.

Additionally if a psyker is to really tap the deepest wells of power then they have to make a decision whether to spend all of their experience on powers and psy rating or use it to try and augment their toughness, strength or other characteristics which might come into play. Having immense power is fine but that power will do nothing for you when the brass clad Champion of Khorne stands before you wielding a nulling device, mocking as you fire bolts of pure warp essence at him which under normal circumstances could take out a tank and watching it dissipate against a null field. The immense power of such beings can be cancelled out easily by null fields as well as other protective methods which even the odds.

Those meanwhile who do sacrifice their physical bodies for more power, well it can become a slippery slope with others hungering for more, making deals with daemon, god and xenos all for the might they crave and with each piece of forbidden might they accumulate it brings them a step closer to madness and/or their own demise. It is rare that a character will reach absolute maximum psy rating that the game allows without suffering some sort of delusion or severe affliction.

Your GM calling psykers broken then is wrong, he simply doesn't understand the complexity and the risks associated with such a path.

You are right, I agree they are immensely powerful, and it's an achievement hard drserved. I've tried explaining the consequences of failure and even suggesting the use of null rods on multiple occasions. Yet it always comes back to me being broken. I tried explaining that without my powers I'm just a twig in the storm. That's when he devised his all "Collar of Khorne" wearing enemies. An entire campaign where I was utterly useless. Yet I (being Tzeentchian on that campaign) had a minion and inspired my enemies to turn on one another through words, or tricking anyone I could.

I'm not trying to underplay the class and say it's weak or on the same lvl as others because like u said it's incredibly powerful. I just need help keeping our games fun and not arguments.

I don't have my books on me atm, but what is the range on Null rods? And I'm assuming it would also null the "killing will" channeled into force weapons. Would I be correct to assume that?

The funny thing about nullrods is that they only work within a certain radius (2d10 metres), they're not absolute (only a -30 penalty) and they are Near Unique , which is presumably even rarer than psykers are.

All in all, I tend to agree with your GM - Psykers are pretty powerful. They can play it safe by fettering powers or obtaining appropriate talents and they can only be reasonably countered by enemies expecting to go up against psykers, which aren't that many considering how rare psykers are. All the while, they can reasonably reach levels of damage that other people lug heavy weapons around for - and at the same time get some amazing utility powers.

The best way to nerf a psyker is to exclude fettered power level. That's what they did in DH2, that's what turns manifesting powers into risky affair.

In DH2 fettering comes naturally--one can choose to reduce their psy rating for what is effectively fettering. Which gives a +10 for every level under their psy rating they perform the power at.

Ok so what about if you use sustainables like Telekinetic Shield and then get ur psy rating reduced by a null rod. Do u keep your sustained ability as it is or do u have to reroll it or reduce its effectiveness?

A Null Rod negates your power completely rather than reducing it and forces penalties on WP tests. This means that any psyker in range of the ability would make their sustain test with the appropriate (likely negative) modifier.

If however there were a situation which reduced your psy rating then the effect would only be an issue if it reduced their effective psy rating to zero or lower. Anything lower than 1 and the power fails to operate and therefore is negated.

A Null Rod cannot possibly negate all the powers of the psyker completely. Even the Obsidian Star does not do that. A rod simply gives psykers a -30 WP penalty to use their powers and +30 WP bonus to resist them to you. It does not even reduce PR. And by RAW, the rod does not affect any powers that are already being sustained.

This is the reason the psykers are held in a specially made quarters on a Black Ships. And even then it sometimes not enough.

A Null Rod cannot possibly negate all the powers of the psyker completely. Even the Obsidian Star does not do that. A rod simply gives psykers a -30 WP penalty to use their powers and +30 WP bonus to resist them to you. It does not even reduce PR. And by RAW, the rod does not affect any powers that are already being sustained.

This is the reason the psykers are held in a specially made quarters on a Black Ships. And even then it sometimes not enough.

You misunderstand perhaps I should have clarified it a little better, my apologies. I was stating that while some psyker affecting objects reduce the potency of the final power, reducing the caster PR, the null rod is just an outright "fail this test and you cannot use your ability."

Perhaps the only true negation of psychic power is the presence of a blank/untouchable.

I thought so. Still this seems like an overstatement. A nullrod is rather useless thing to me. See, the only thing it does is inflicting a -30 penalty to a Focus Power test . This means that powerfull psykers can rather easily bypass it. They would simply have enough Willpower and PR to flat out ignore this. And even less powerfull ones can just drug themselves or simply Push their powers and still get your sorry ass.

The other thing, +30 bonus to resist is just a little bit useful. But even then, just situationally, since it does not protect the wielder from damaging powers.

And they can step out of range of the black stick and blast you for good.

Untouchables does indeed hamper psychic abilities much more effectively, reduсing both PR by a good amount and inflicting a further penalty. But even so, they can be affected by powers that augment the psyker himself and get punished. Just as the Khornate Daemon Princes, Brass Collar wearers and other creatures with similar abilities can be.

So the only true negation has to be something special that GM or book presents. Like the Perils effects or something else which I do not remember.

There is also a Rite of Punishment from the Tome of Blood. A real nasty way to negate a psyker but yet again can be overcomed by powerful ones.

So the only true negation has to be something special that GM or book presents. Like the Perils effects or something else which I do not remember.

I prefer the original definition of untouchables and that they should indeed be just that, immune 100% to all psychic powers, daemonic effects and warp taint. Meanwhile everything else just has varying levels of anti-psyker presence. The trade off to that would be a Fel silly penalty.

Well, they ARE immune 100% to any psychic power directly affecting them as well as daemonic effects and warp taint. What they are not immune to is indirect attacks.

Being that a said telekinetically throwed boulder or a great weapon blow from a buffed up psyker.

No more, no less.

Well, they ARE immune 100% to any psychic power directly affecting them as well as daemonic effects and warp taint. What they are not immune to is indirect attacks.

Being that a said telekinetically throwed boulder or a great weapon blow from a buffed up psyker.

No more, no less.

Doesnt new system (he says looking for DH2 peoples) make it to a -20 on tests to affect them or did I have a nightmare on that?

*checks the old Beta*

Oh. What a surprise. Well, you are almost correct, unfortunately. It's +20 bonus the test. There is indeed a radical changes in the untouchables abilities. Now they are anty-psyker thing and no more.

I think that this is yet another fail of the system. Especially with the new Dodging with Willpower .

Maybe it was changed yet again in the final version, I know not, not possesing the 2nd ed.

I was talking about the first edition, as well as other books. Where they are mostly identical in power and are just what I said.