I recently purchased the the colonist source book and am looking at the homestead rules. The question I have is if it provides any income off the bat or if you have to get upgrades in order for it to start producing. Does it maybe cover living expenses?

So we have a mine and I am playing a scientist (AoR). My plan is to build a foundry on the property as well as an electronics fab center so that I can eventually start building anything we need. We are also planing on seeing if we can coax biofuel out of the local flora. Eventually I hope to have a droid army working the facility so that we can fly off and have fun with a nice steady income (which I am certain my GM will allow to break down as soon as we leave orbit).

So I wrote the first draft of the rules, and the first answer is no. No the homestead does not generate any income off the bat. It is presumed that it is covering expenses for said homestead (beyond the buy-in prices for the place itself and any upgrades as listed) but it does not begin turning profits until you invest in that aspect for upgrades.

As for your plan to build a droid foundry/electronics manufacturing/bio-fuel mining place:

The homestead rules were really built to have one primary focus as either a business or a farm/mine/ranch. A farm for biofuel or a mine for drilled fuel sounds like the best match here. I say this because your other interests for the homestead (foundry and fabrication) seem to be more about what the group needs, rather than about selling something for profit. These sorts of interests can be covered with the mechanic's garage update, which covers droids and/or vehicles, but this would not be a for-profit venture. Alternately, you can make a droid retail business, where you create custom droids, and toss out the biofuel angle altogether.

That said, you can easily just say that hey, it does all 3 of these things, but the profits are still only going to be whatever they are based on how many profit upgrades you purchase (plus any you might get specifically from, say, a few talents from the entrepreneur spec). The only place I'd see this as dangerous, is that narratively, you might be tempted to draw on this wide variety of resources (from three pretty distinct and separate businesses, biofuels for bombs, droids on the floor as part of a plan to defend the homestead from an attack, etc) which might provide you guys with access to more than the GM is comfortable for the purposes of balance. However, if he is cool with it, rule one is fun, so I say have at it.

Since you're able to start with one ship and later end up with multiple ships, there's no reason that you can't end up buying multiple businesses and/or homesteads.

So I wrote the first draft of the rules, and the first answer is no. No the homestead does not generate any income off the bat.

So the 98 dollar question is: does this apply to businesses, too? Or did you just intend the "no profit straight away" for Homesteads?

Oh - one more question: Lets say you've got some upgrades for your homestead/business, actually bringing in some cash. Would you figure the Entrepanure's "Wheel and Deal" +10% for selling things talent come into play. That each month's profits would be slightly higher, even though it's just the character selling in an abstract sense?

I expect it applies to businesses. Few businesses are profitable right away.

Yeah, unfortunately it probably does. I was just hoping for a loophole! Ah well, looks like we should invest some of the bank loan we just took out to actually turning a profit.

I would think turning a profit would be part of the story arc, not necessarily tied to any specific mechanics, nor should you have to buy specific Talents if it's part of the story. You and the GM might work out something reasonable based on previous session's efforts to buy good product plans, ensure a reliable source of raw materials, install decent 3D manufacturing printers, find a buyer or a market to sell, etc. The Entrepreneur talent is only useful as a guideline to maybe determine how much you can expect to profit given your "session investment" devoted to increasing the profitability of the business.

Thank you for the response.

I was just re-reading that section and wondering the same exact thing. It will help clear up any questions my players have later. Oh, and by the way that had the most comprehensive GM section yet in EOTE for what I look for in a game book.

Kudos.

I dropped this in the Answers from the Devs thread, but I thought I'd put it here too, since it's relevant:

I asked:

Question about homesteads and businesses from Far Horizons. Lets assume that the party has a business (in this case, a bar), and they've invested in the upgrade where they're actually turning a profit every month. Does the Entrepreneur talent +10% Wheel and Deal bonus have any effect on that monthly profit?

The player is selling, but its only in an abstract sort of way. It's a "This is how many drinks we sold over the month" instead of one "You can have this crate of blasters" transaction.

Sam said:

That's a decision I would leave firmly in the hands of your GM, although if the amount of money isn't ludicrous (and I don't think it would be), I wouldn't have a problem with it at my table. It certainly makes sense that an Entrepreneur (or Trader) is good at selling things!

Yeah, I agree with Sam and I would absolutely allow it (not that it matters, Sam's word completely trumps mine in all instances related to the game). Even maxed out for profit, it only makes 500 credits per month per PC. I would probably only have the 10% bonus apply to the Entrepreneur's share, so its an extra 50 credits per month. But even if its a party of 5, the total pot is only 2,500 credits per month. A 10% bonus on that is 250 extra credits. Or double that for a business. That doesn't feel game breaking, so if they can justify it, I'd more than likely allow it for the big pot before splitting it.

If they have profit maxed out on their homestead or business, they have really put a lot of effort into building it up, possibly at the expense of security. If it ever starts to feel abusive, you can always have a theft occur when an obligation triggers to cut into profits that month. But really, its per month. I imagine an entire adventure takes place over the span of a few days, even if it takes multiple sessions. This is really a bonus they should be getting between larger, multi-episode adventures.

It'll matter more later in the campaign when the Entrepreneur has stakes in the core businesses of a town and has bought up most of the surrounding homesteads. The specialization seems to be built for doing exactly this sort of thing.

Here's a question for you guys: What's a good Party Class skill for a group running a bar? I'm thinking of something along the lines of Streetwise, Underworld or Rim Worlds. Why? think how many times in movies you see someone slide up to the bar, slip the bartender a fiver and ask "Have you seen this guy?" or "What do you know about X" - and then the plot rolls on as the barkeep points upstairs and says "room five" or the like.

Now imagine being on the other side of the bar, the fellow telling the bounty hunter that the scum he's after is currently in the corner playing cards - he really has to know his stuff. If spaghetti westerns are anything to go by, serving drinks, throwing out trouble makers and listening to drunk people commiserate is secondary to being "Information Broker".

But anyone got a better suggestion?

Resilience?

All kidding aside. I think Streetwise is pretty good.

I mean, as a 14 year bartender, I can tell you that there are all sorts of skills that COULD apply, but more often than not, its going to be Charm. It's a service based industry, you make your tips based on how you treat the customers. Owners get customers by gladhanding the ones that come in so they come back and feel welcome. Even bouncers, good ones, are, as patrick swayze taught us all, nice, until its time to not be nice.

That said, your justification for streetwise works just fine. I'd allow it.