My problem is the starting resource holocron is crap and does not make sense story wise at all. If a holocron is a the thing getting you on the path of force use it needs to ooh I don't know do something to get you on the path of force use. Not give you new career skills. Which it does not. It does not operate like a holocron at all in any way we have ever seen in any fluff and does not make sense. Also it is a sh*tty option compared to mentor. as in not anywhere near as useful as a mentor. A holocron needs to do something related to teaching a starting character force using skills. Holocrons and Mentors really should do about the same thing. Holocrons being less useful in some ways and more useful in others.

And not all holocrons in the fluff focus on the same things. In fact, the only canon source of a holocron is the one in Clone Wars, and all that was was a database of force-sensitive children across the galaxy.

Which is still not going to get a character on the path of using the force. Just allow them to use a lightsaber and be more disciplined. And that is my problem. This holocron would be how you learned to use the force, It should actually you know do something for that.. Discipline is a skill, it is not force use.

People keep ignoring my point that this is the device that got your character to be able to use the force. It should cover that. Not skills.

Why does it need to even do that Daeglan? Why does it need to have a specific mechanical benefit? If you are so determined to make the holocron something only useful to Force users, go ahead. Right our wrongs, go for it. I on the other hand am perfectly content to allow it to give two career skill as well as give my players the okay to buy into force trees.

Edit: Plus, sometimes game mechanics must take precedence over fluff. Take the Lightsaber for example. Get rid of the damage number and just write "ONE HIT KILL, NO EXCEPTIONS!" next to it. Sure it works very well fluff wise but terribly from a gameplay perspective. I see the Mentor and Holocron as two separate things (although a Holocron gatekeep can be a Mentor). The Mentor is there for a group that is entirely Force Sensitive's, whereas the Holocron is for a mixed group of non-force users and force users as it buffs the party even if they have no connection to the Force. Otherwise you have the option of being a **** GM and saying to the Smuggler and Colonist "Sorry, I know you want to run those characters, but this is mainly a Force and Destiny group and they want a mentor...which offers no benefit to you mechanically whatsoever...unlike a ship or holocron.

Why does it need to be able to be used by everyone? Why is it that we only ever see them used by force users? Even the only current cannon source has them only usable by force users. Maybe I would think they would be far more common if everyone could use them. Every source I have seen required force sensitivity to use them.

Every source I have seen required force sensitivity to use them.

The point I'm trying to make is that Discipline IS force-use in this context. It is in a very literal mechanical way for making your character better at using the force.

And again, not a thing stopping anyone from using a holocron gatekeeper as a Mentor. Or doing things as the expanded holocron in Equipment describes.

Why does it need to be able to be used by everyone? Why is it that we only ever see them used by force users? Even the only current cannon source has them only usable by force users. Maybe I would think they would be far more common if everyone could use them. Every source I have seen required force sensitivity to use them.

Because the basic holocron is a group resource for a game where everyone is a Force user by default, and was updated with this in mind. EotE and AoR's starting group resources were both written from the point of view that it's something every member of the party can benefit from in one degree or another.

If the majority of the group are PCs made using EotE or AoR, then perhaps the basic holocron shouldn't really be considered as an option for a group resource (particularly if it is restricted to only Force-users), but rather one of the EotE or AoR group resource options should be considered instead, since it will benefit the entire group and just one or two select PCs. For all we know, when the designers do get around to writing a "how to blend EotE and AoR with FaD games," one of the things they may say is that "if most of your group were made using PCs from other books and they aren't Force users, consider using a different starting group resource, such as a light transport or a base of operations instead of those found in FaD."

If I were playing a Smuggler/Thief and two of my fellow players were an Engineer/Saboteur and Commando/Sharpshooter, each of us with no interest in being Force-sensitive, we'd be rather miffed if the group resource was something that none of us could ever take advantage of.

Then again, FFG has shown they're willing to defy previous conventions about the EU in the past, such as the default YT-1300 having two laser turrets instead of one, or the HWK-290 being on par with a starfighter for size and having no default weapons being another, or Hutts being a viable PC species instead of a being an NPC species as prior SWRPGs had done. So they could very well decide that a basic holocron can be used by anyone, Force-sensitive or not.

The point I'm trying to make is that Discipline IS force-use in this context. It is in a very literal mechanical way for making your character better at using the force.

Very true, since many Force powers that include an opposed skill check by default have the active character using Discipline.

Could be worse, you could give your group a holocron that functions as an answering machine.

Could be worse, you could give your group a holocron that functions as an answering machine.

Hello. Available to take your call no one is. A message after the tone please leave. *BEEP*