Everything I have ever read or seen about holocrons they are a method of storing knowledge about the force and force powers. yes they will teach you lore and about the history of various jedi and events. But the big thing i remember is it was a way for a force sensitive without access to a teacher to learn the ways of the force. And Sith holocrons can lead someone astray and down the dark path.

The game rules do not reflect this at all. Making some non career skills career skills...what does that have to do with the force? The Mentor methodology seems to be closer to the right path. The i would augment the mentor by saying the GM needs to make the mentor and any skills or powers the mentor knows are the ones that get a discount. The holocron would do the same for a knowledge lore or knowledge region in addition to a set number of powers,

The starter holocrons provide the two skills, but the more potent holocrons in the equipment section do whatever the GM needs them to do, including what you're suggesting.

Honestly I kind of think easier access to Discipline and Lightsaber fits pretty well with the idea of a holocron teaching one the force, but I get what you're saying.

None of the starter holocrons behave like any holocron I have ever heard of. And really don't make sense from the perspective of this is how your characters started on the path to learn the force.

I see they are trying to find a way to make the Holocron mechanically useful but different from a mentor. It is close, but I agree that it doesn't feel right.

Mind you, if I ever GMed a group that picked a Holocron, it would certainly end up a plot hook generating device.

But anyway, pick a ship. Ships are great.

It makes learning skills easier because you have "someone" to teach you. Makes sense to me.

But I feel like if you want to take Mentor and have it be a holocron gatekeeper, that would fit pretty well with the fluff. I would just not also have the skill bonus for the holocron. The rules are guidelines, not law.

I agree that the Mentor sounds more in line with what you're looking for. Stepping back from the mechanics a bit, is there any reason why your Mentor can't be the gatekeeper of a holocron? In other words, the players have a physical holocron, but mechanically they have a Mentor?

I don't see why not. Just voicing my feeling that the way Holocrons are currently done feels off. It does not fit the fluff at all. As my understanding is a Holocron essentially operates like a mentor. Maybe they should treat Holocrons like mentors instead of what they are currently doing...

I will use the Holocron with granting the skills plus.......

for example: One of my players has a holocron (Darth Phobos) I gave Coercion and Stealth as skills, but I also added that he will get 15xp to spend on the Misdirect Force Power and is granted the Terrify talent. The other two abilities I am holding back until he delves farther into the teachings of Darth Phobos. My view is they get the starting basic stuff when they first open the holocron, but has they move farther into the teachings of the gatekeeper, they can get farther talents and abilities from it.

Yeah that is more of the way I think it should work. And Sith Holocrons should tempt you to the dark side

Also my understanding is that Holocrons could potentially have multiple gatekeepers in it.

And Sith Holocrons should tempt you to the dark side

Exactly. Set the extras to only be released (learned) at certain Morality levels.

Yeah that is more of the way I think it should work.

Also my understanding is that Holocrons could potentially have multiple gatekeepers in it.

Well, the full holocrons as described in the equipment chapter, but the benefits are generally restricted to one person.

The 2nd Beta Update simply made it so the basic holocron that the party gets isn't as broad, but can benefit the entire party instead of just one member at at time.

At it's core, a holocron is really an interactive database, and even the basic version can be used to assist in Knowledge checks, particuarly regarding topics that relate to the Force as well as the Jedi Order (or Sith if it's a Sith holocron). And really, that's the extent of what a holocron should be, not a direct source mystical powers the way many D&D magic items operate.

Truthfully, the holocron as described in the Gear & Equipment chapter could use some revision, with perhaps it providing just the following mechanical benefits:

1) Current owner upgrades any Knowledge checks once to reflect the holocron's vast stores of knowledge,or twice if the topic pertains directly to the Force and major/well-known Force traditions, such as the Jedi or the Sith.

2) Current owner (and only them) can purchase any skills that use Intellect as their default Characteristic as though they were career skills.

3) Current owner reduces the XP cost of learning a new Force power by 5 XP, which does not stack with the Mentor benefit.

The basic holocron that the party can take as their group resource offers the two bonus career skills to the entire group, and a boost die on Knowledge checks made.

Holocrons from my understading are not tied to individuals. more than one person can try and access them.

Holocrons from my understading are not tied to individuals. more than one person can try and access them.

In the background and fluff they are, but if you read the text on page 132, they very heavily suggest that only a single user can benefit from a holocron at any given time, and that these holocrons are not a party resource that everyone can use at the same time, in much the same way that a single lightsaber or heavy blaster rifle or set of armored robes can be shared and used by the group all at the same time.

Holocrons from my understading are not tied to individuals. more than one person can try and access them.

In the background and fluff they are, but if you read the text on page 132, they very heavily suggest that only a single user can benefit from a holocron at any given time, and that these holocrons are not a party resource that everyone can use at the same time, in much the same way that a single lightsaber or heavy blaster rifle or set of armored robes can be shared and used by the group all at the same time.

well yeah. only one person can use the holocron at a time. but when done with a training session someone else can use it.

Holocrons generally have a big ol' story box written all over them, they can become whatever the GM needs them to be in order to run his campaign. The player choose a Holocron instead of a mentor, fantastic, he's now a gatekeeper. Need a maguffin, here you go the Holocron is acting up. Want the provide them with free intel because they are running around like headless chickens, there you go "wasn't there something in the Holocron about this?".

One thing I was pondering on is that the Holocrons we tend to see in fiction are of course the important ones that contain great power, and people care a great deal about. There's nothing saying that you can't have Force Using for Dummies, or the "You and Your Lightsaber" Holocrons. Sure there isn't anything like that portrayed in the EU, but that's because they're boring. Very rarely do you quest across the galaxy for the Beginners Holocron, but that doesn't mean they can't exist.

I just figure the starting characters have "Strengthening your Mind and Body, an Intro to being Zen." The Holocron.

The Force and the Art of Hovercycle Maintenance.

One thing I was pondering on is that the Holocrons we tend to see in fiction are of course the important ones that contain great power, and people care a great deal about. There's nothing saying that you can't have Force Using for Dummies, or the "You and Your Lightsaber" Holocrons. Sure there isn't anything like that portrayed in the EU, but that's because they're boring. Very rarely do you quest across the galaxy for the Beginners Holocron, but that doesn't mean they can't exist.

I just figure the starting characters have "Strengthening your Mind and Body, an Intro to being Zen." The Holocron.

Good point.

The bulk of the holocrons we've seen in the EU have been the "really important ones" as opposed to the "day to day information databases" that are probably far more common.

If a leaked script/summary of the first episode of Rebels that I read is correct, then Kanan has a holocron of his own that Ezra manages to pocket, with said holocron having a recording of Obi-Wan's message telling all Jedi survivors of Order 66 to go to ground and hide. But said holocron isn't some mystical power-granting macguffin, and is more of a "trinket" with useful notes and files on Jedi lore, and possilby even various training techniques to help Kanan with his teaching Ezra the basics of being a Jedi (which I'm sure he'd appreciate seeing as how Kanan never made it past Padawan himself).

Mostly I think the way Holocrons are presented in the system just don't cover them well. I think they should work like low powered mentors. And I think mentors are a bit over powered as well. Mentor probably should be built as nemesis and should give discounts only to powers they know or ones they can make a lore check one. Ie they know a little about it but can't do it.

Personally...Holocrons are difficult to do and no one will ever be happy with how they are implemented. The career skill idea is in my opinion representive of the holocron imparting knowledge to the player, making it cheaper to buy XP in those certain skills.

Personally...Holocrons are difficult to do and no one will ever be happy with how they are implemented. The career skill idea is in my opinion representive of the holocron imparting knowledge to the player, making it cheaper to buy XP in those certain skills.

Problem is those do not represent this device that somehow got the players on the path to force use. Sure it can tech them 2 skills. but those skills tend to have nothing to do with force use. So how did they learn to use the force at all? That is my problem. It seems to me that having this holocron as a group resource would imply this is how they learned to use the force...

Starting Holocrons are what they are. All other Holocrons do whatever the GM wants. Nothing to say a starting Holocron can't have some secret unlocked at a future time making it more valuable. That might be a cool adventure, to figure out how to unlock the hidden secrets within that old Holocron you've had since the start of the campaign.

Yeah, let us not all forget that the basic Holocron is a starting resource for a Force and Destiny campaign...all of whome are already Jedi and so have started their journey already. The holocron may have been the item that started them on their journey originally. However since then they have passed the point where the holocron is the beacon that it once was, now it is merely a useful tool for knowledge.

You also have consider...how much is too much. Two career skills isn't going to break the bank, but if it were to give permanent discounts to all force powers, then you have a very potentially gamebreaking scenario going on of the Jedi getting very powerful for a fraction of the XP. Its why I am glad the 'mentor' (which in my opinion could be a Holocron gatekeeper) only offers the basic powers at a discount.

There are a few Holocrons on the random list that seem like a lot of fun and makes me wonder what kind of awesome Jedi was responsible for creating them. The Brawl and Streetwise one comes to mind, as does the Skulduggery and Vigilance.

If I ever had a party pick a Holocron as their starting gift (but really, don't) I would give them #4, Mechanics and Ranged. I hate being caught in combat without 1-2 points of Ranged, and I wouldn't wish it on them. And mechanics will help them with the secondhand (third, fourth, etc) piece of junk ship I will be saddling them with. The one that is a bit too small for comfort and always breaking down at dramatically appropriate moments.

My problem is the starting resource holocron is crap and does not make sense story wise at all. If a holocron is a the thing getting you on the path of force use it needs to ooh I don't know do something to get you on the path of force use. Not give you new career skills. Which it does not. It does not operate like a holocron at all in any way we have ever seen in any fluff and does not make sense. Also it is a sh*tty option compared to mentor. as in not anywhere near as useful as a mentor. A holocron needs to do something related to teaching a starting character force using skills. Holocrons and Mentors really should do about the same thing. Holocrons being less useful in some ways and more useful in others.