I have to think about this one. Could be interesting...

I have a direct damage buff in mind, for example allowing a blank to be changed to a hit. I need to run the numbers. No ETA.

Ion cannon:
Cost reduction from 3 to 2

Heavy Laser Cannon:
Cost reduction from 7 to 6

HLC does not need a cost reduction, especially with the Outrider in wave 5. I'm not sure that the Ion Cannon needs anything either, although 2 points might be the right choice. 3 usually seems rather expensive. I'll keep this in mind. I'm letting it stay for now though.

Yeah he's tough. In Epic play his ability is fantastic against Huge ships though.

As far as Ordinance goes, how about changing it so none of them require you to discard your Focus/TL when firing? Biggest problem seems to be reliability for the cost you pay. Making them more reliable seems a better fix than a 1 pt decrease.

I'll eventually get around to fully analyzing Ordnance and its value. I need to do that before considering fundamentally modifying the mechanics of ordnance. It'll be its own big MathWing post. No ETA.

I love almost all of your changes, and love Darthfishes ideanto re-cost old cards with decals. But I don't like half point costs.

I meant to add that I specifically don't like it because it seems like something FFG would never do. (was looking at this forum in before class, prof showed up and I posted it half finished)

And yeah, making it harder to figure out the cost for a list in my head isn't great either. List building in my head is at times the background noise of my mind, and that'll make it louder, haha.

As far as Ordinance goes, how about changing it so none of them require you to discard your Focus/TL when firing? Biggest problem seems to be reliability for the cost you pay. Making them more reliable seems a better fix than a 1 pt decrease.

I wouldn't remove the firing requirements, since it's an uneven fix.

Reducing the cost by 1 seems more appropriate, or putting 2 tracking tokens on each ordnance card, removing 1 each time it hits, and discarding when there are no tracking tokens remaining.

I'd reduce Munitions Failsafe to 0 points.

I'd reduce Munitions Failsafe to 0 points.

Making Munitions Failsafe auto-include reduces the design space, so I don't like this approach. See my approach for Munitions Failsafe. You get both the ordnance card and the Target Lock back. I think that's perfectly fair. You wasted your entire attack, you might as well be able to make the next one with a focus token stacked, or after K-turning.

I think the big issue with Munitions Failsafe is that one shot ordinance usually have to be built around to be effective, like Bomber squads having Jonus, and every other ship that uses them either has PTL or some ability buff. That makes it really unlikely that you will do 0 damage, you may get some crappy rolls and only do 1 damage that you built a chunk of your squad around.

It might be that a 1 point cost reduction will make ordinance cheap enough to just throw into a squad without all those buffs they need now, but the types of squads that do use those buffs still won't be helped by Munitions Failsafe.

Then again, maybe you mean Munitions Failsafe to be used for the just throw it on a regular ship type squad.

Excellent stuff btw. I'm currently planning a campaign at my FLGS where people start at 20 points to select a ship+upgrades. Players will be able to earn experience and credits in missions based on performance. Exp will be spent to increase PS and buy named pilot abilities, while credits will be spent buying upgrades and changing into other ships. Pilots will be cost adjusted to start at PS 1, so your point adjustments are pretty valuable to give me a good idea on how to adjust them. I agree with most if not all your changes and will be implementing them so if this takes off I'll keep track of the results and let you know how they work.

Also, i greatly appreciate your contributions to the community with your statistics and data tracking. Keep up the great work.

I think the big issue with Munitions Failsafe is that one shot ordinance usually have to be built around to be effective, like Bomber squads having Jonus, and every other ship that uses them either has PTL or some ability buff. That makes it really unlikely that you will do 0 damage, you may get some crappy rolls and only do 1 damage that you built a chunk of your squad around.

It might be that a 1 point cost reduction will make ordinance cheap enough to just throw into a squad without all those buffs they need now, but the types of squads that do use those buffs still won't be helped by Munitions Failsafe.

Then again, maybe you mean Munitions Failsafe to be used for the just throw it on a regular ship type squad.

Yeah, Munitions Failsafe suffers from the fundamental problem that if you have already completely missed on your alpha strike, getting to try a 2nd time is really a small consolation. Hence my buff to it, where you at least get a free Target Lock if you miss, so your 2nd shot really should be killer. Assuming you're even still alive and have the same ship in arc next turn.

I'm currently planning a campaign at my FLGS where people start at 20 points to select a ship+upgrades. Players will be able to earn experience and credits in missions based on performance. Exp will be spent to increase PS and buy named pilot abilities, while credits will be spent buying upgrades and changing into other ships. Pilots will be cost adjusted to start at PS 1, so your point adjustments are pretty valuable to give me a good idea on how to adjust them. I agree with most if not all your changes and will be implementing them so if this takes off I'll keep track of the results and let you know how they work.

Cool, let me know how it works, and if you have an questions on balance at PS1 then let me know. If you don't have a hard 100 point cap, then I would let the Rookies be 20 points at PS2, or 19 points at PS1. B-wings being 22 points at PS2 is equivalent to 21 points at PS1, so I suspect that starting at 20 points, players may start in an X-wing and then upgrade into a B-wing soon after. Or they could start in an Interceptor for 17 points and try out a Hull Upgrade or something.

Just bear in mind that the balance is tuned for a 100 point squad. When you have very small squad points, then things can get weird really fast. Single very powerful ships tend to become very very good.

Yeah, im starting everyone out in Z's/Y's/X's for Rebels, and Fighters/Bombers/Advanced for Imperials. I figured things like Awings and Interceptors right off the bat might make things go a little crazy. I plan on allowing Ship "Upgrades" only after a couple of missions, at set intervals. Kinda like a resupply from the fleet or something. Hopefully will allow me to see how thing are balanced. Also "fancy" stuff like Phantoms and the big turreted ships will be on a...."restricted list" where they'll play more of a NPC role. Of course im still building this as i go, so it'll be subject to change.

Great job Major Juggler.

We actually created couple of upgrades, one for Vader: Vader only: increase your primary weapon v. x1, cost 3 points.

The other one was a secondary firing arc for Shuttle, and a specific cannon for it: 5 points, shuttle only. range 1-2, 2 red dice. You can only used with your secondary firing arc.

I liked very much the reduction costs, are pretty balanced.

Also I was thinking to modified the cost of Deadeye to 0 for Bombers.

I'd reduce Munitions Failsafe to 0 points.

Making Munitions Failsafe auto-include reduces the design space, so I don't like this ap DavesGames proach.

Whatever other issues there might be, a 0-point Munitions Failsafe wouldn't be an auto-include. There are too many other modifications one might consider using, even if packing ordnance, because there's only one modification "slot".

I'd reduce Munitions Failsafe to 0 points.

Making Munitions Failsafe auto-include reduces the design space, so I don't like this ap DavesGames proach.

Whatever other issues there might be, a 0-point Munitions Failsafe wouldn't be an auto-include. There are too many other modifications one might consider using, even if packing ordnance, because there's only one modification "slot".

That's true that it would not be universally auto-include, but for generic pilots it almost always would be, since you rarely see generics with modifications.

TIE Defender Pilots

Delta Squadron Pilot

• Cost reduced from 30 to 28 (like in OT)

3 Deltas with Autoblasters would be very interesting. once they 'passed' the death zone and enter the close combat mode,

the Autoblasters could do the trick.

Onyx Squadron Pilot

• Cost reduced from 32 to 30
• Gains the Elite Pilot Talent slot

This actually would be cool to get a wingman with 'Wingman' for Rexler or Vessery.

Or you could use Predator or Outmanouvre with 3 of them.

Or you can make good use of 'Decoy', 'Adrenaline Rush' and 'Veteran Instincts' of course.

Rexler

• Cost reduced from 37 to 36

Vessery

• Cost reduced from 35 to 34

I got the strong feeling that Rexler is overpriced by 1 point. As a result, Vessery should be 1 point less as well.

----------------------------------------------

Maarek Steele

• Card text now reads: "When attacking, the first critical hit ignores shields and can't be evaded."

TIE Defender Pilots

Onyx Squadron Pilot

• Cost reduced from 32 to 30
• Gains the Elite Pilot Talent slot

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea for the PS3 Defender having an EPT in addition to the 2 point cost reduction, for 2 reasons:

1. Balance: The white K-turn makes the PS1 Defender almost universally the better choice, because when moving first the white K-turn can't get blocked. At PS3 you can get blocked. So adding an EPT would help motivate you to spend the extra points. Right now I don't think anyone ever would.
2. Thematically: " Imperial High Command decided that defender pilots would only be selected from TIE interceptor pilots who had flown at least twenty combat missions and survived. We're either the best pilots in the Imperial fleet or the luckiest. " -- Rexler Brath. So the PS1 Defender pilots were already suppossed to be elite. The PS3 would be even better. An EPT makes sense.

I am convinced that FFG made the lowest PS Defender PS1, so that its white K-turn couldn't get blocked. They actually stated this in an interview. I agree with this decision, as it is needed for game balance. But I think they missed the opportunity to add an EPT to the PS3. So I'm adding this one in, thanks for the feedback!

I actually agree... mostly.. but I am I'm still not convinced that the named Defender Pilots that bad, Vessery in particular. So I am being cautious and leaving them as is for now. We should at least wait for Worlds and see if they gain any traction.

Vessery is really good when you build an entire squad around him. If he gets a free TL every round, then his normalized damage goes from 1.7 (3 dice standard) to 2.4. That's a 40% increase. For reference, Wedge's damage output is 2.0, which is only a ~18% increase.

That gives Vessery a jousting value of ~27.8. His PS1 equivalent cost is 35-5 = 30 (1 point per PS), resulting in an efficiency of 90.4%. That's really not that bad. I have an estimated total efficiency for him of almost exactly 100%, but that has to be taken with a grain of salt, since estimating the combat coefficient for having a white K-turn is nearly impossible without another ship to baseline to. In any event, I am not willing to reduce his value unless we see consistent tournament results showing that he performs poorly when he gets brought. But we aren't seeing that.

Rexler's ability is frankly inferior, except in Epic play. I'm open to suggestions on what to do with him, but also perfectly willing to let him stay as is for now. I'll give it some thought and time. Again, I would rather wait for more tournament results to come in.

Glad you like my ideas - yeah ... i mostly like Rexler one point cheaper to have 54 points left after he got an HLC and Pretador.

Vessery is good like he is. Lets see what the new cannons might add.

No love for Maarek's card text?

Rexlar's issue is that he is very much match-up dependent. Facing A-wings, E-wings, or Phantoms, then his ability is pretty worthless. Facing Falcons or Y-wings, now we are talking. How do you "fix" something that is effective depending on what you can't control?

I added credits everywhere that I could find or remember links for the original ideas. If I missed any, let me know. I like to give people the proper recognition for their ideas.

No love for Maarek's card text?

I added it to the discussion tab so we at least won't forget it!

Ept for gammas would seriously fix them. Fix them so well that you'd never ever need to fix them again. They become tanky ept holders that last a long time, consider wingman lone wolf predator draw their fire. They become independently capable as tanky dog fighters and independently capable of single turn missile firing with TL spend F.

I'm actually of the opinion that this is a boon that might be too big. Id love it but I think it opens up so much design space you've actually created a whole new ship with tons of new roles.

If you want a bomber with ept I think you need to design one. Like a ps 5 or 6 that costs one or two point more.

I think it might invalidate the gamma though at ps 5.

If you do do the gamma with ept it is an extremely exciting new ship.

It'll feel extremely customizable... Almost like a better tie advanced with a system slot pre accuracy corrector.

Honestly don't you think the tie advanced ps 4 could use a ept? I think that opens up that tanky cheap ept holder spot better.

Defenders should have ept. Ps 3.

Ept for gammas would seriously fix them. Fix them so well that you'd never ever need to fix them again. They become tanky ept holders that last a long time, consider wingman lone wolf predator draw their fire. They become independently capable as tanky dog fighters and independently capable of single turn missile firing with TL spend F.

I'm actually of the opinion that this is a boon that might be too big. Id love it but I think it opens up so much design space you've actually created a whole new ship with tons of new roles.

Gammas with EPTs are probably not anywhere near overpowered even with 3 point missiles/torpedoes, but I put the ( testing ) label on it to be clear, just in case. Good thoughts. I actually like the idea of "stand-alone" bombers as an alternative to the Jonus Swarm. Lone Wolf is a tough sell though. The TL+F stack is almost certainly better, at least with Concussion Missiles.

No no no, think:

NO ORDNANCE, tanky, long lasting, hard to kill ept carriers. Either as one ofs in a list or many at a time.

with wingman, its a reliable mini capt yorr for 20 pts.

with ruthlessness, well.. i wouldnt use that competitively but itd be fun

it would be fabulous for intimidation, bumping Han all day.

Draw their fire would be very good with that much bulk

hmm... okay. never mind. I think you have a point. It would be seriously fun. Like Xmas early. Feels a little dirty.

re; Gamma bombers with ept leanign towards 'too good'

Perhaps allow bombers only ept upgrades with a maximum of 1 or 2 points?

This would leave out all the extra juicy stuff like ptl/predator etc

Yet at the same time it would possibly seriously enhance the Gamma's.

Deadeye, Adrenalin rush, wingman. Man. It makes me all dreamy eyed.

No no no, think:

NO ORDNANCE, tanky, long lasting, hard to kill ept carriers. Either as one ofs in a list or many at a time.

with wingman, its a reliable mini capt yorr for 20 pts.

with ruthlessness, well.. i wouldnt use that competitively but itd be fun

it would be fabulous for intimidation, bumping Han all day.

Draw their fire would be very good with that much bulk

hmm... okay. never mind. I think you have a point. It would be seriously fun. Like Xmas early. Feels a little dirty.

Gamma + PtL = 21 points, which is a lot for a 2/2/6/0 statline with PtL. There's no way they would replace TIE Fighters in masse, although you could use them as a slightly more durable EPT holder than a Black Squadron Pilot. But that's a 4 point increase to go from PS4 TIE Fighter to PS4 Bomber, so I don't see any issues with it being overpowerd. Paying 20 points for a wingman, for example, is an expensive proposition.

So, yeah, Christmas early...

re; Gamma bombers with ept leanign towards 'too good'

Perhaps allow bombers only ept upgrades with a maximum of 1 or 2 points?

This would leave out all the extra juicy stuff like ptl/predator etc

Yet at the same time it would possibly seriously enhance the Gamma's.

Deadeye, Adrenalin rush, wingman. Man. It makes me all dreamy eyed.

Hm, interesting idea, but it would introduce convoluted rules to the game, to limit the available EPTs. I'm trying to keep the changes as relatively clean as possible.

Best bet is to just try playtesting them. The Jonus + 3 Gamma Squad above would be interesting.

...

How about this:

Black Squadron Bomber Pilot:

PS5

EPT

19 Points

will you ever want the PS 2 bomber? I think it becomes a much less appealing choice.

FEEDBACK:

"Winged Gundark"

• Pilot ability now reads: When attacking at range 1, you may change one of your [focus] or [hit] results to a [critical hit] .

Thats a neat little change there. But would it be enough to encourage ppl to use WG? I guess its not enough.

But if you enhance him further, his ability might be too good for a PS5 pilot. On the other hand, Night Beast is so much better then WG.

Just like Mauler Mithel - Mauler is OK but... yeah but. I must confess I never used him. I encountered him two times in competitive play and he was merely just a waste. In both games he died before he got the chance to use his ability. Backstabber is so much better then Mauler. So the range reduction is a big deal there. So how about make WG work in any range instead? Yes, this is not very creative ... but effective.

"Winged Gundark"

• Pilot ability now reads: When attacking, you may change one of your [hit] results to a [critical hit] .

will you ever want the PS 2 bomber? I think it becomes a much less appealing choice.

I love the PS2 Bombers. But only without any upgrades.

I used 4 Scimitars and 3 Academies last tourney and it rocked.

OK - I lost against a Whisper list in the end but I killed all rebel ships I encountered.