Vessery's jousting value is in the range of 90% even when he gets a target lock. OK but not great. It is certainly not as horrible as the ~78% of the generics at 30 points. Of course he gets less use out of the white K since he can get blocked. Certainly if the generics were costed 2 points less and the named 1 point less we would not have thought anything of it.

Let's wait for Worlds and see how they do.

Offhand, is the jousting value get better or worse if you add an HLC? I've found that I feel like they're just a bit too expensive for a 3 gun ship (especially when they excel at long range dogfighting) where the HLC increases their potency at that range.

To me the change to the PS5 TIES is too much, they aren't supposed to work as well as their ps 6 counter parts and gain modified EPTs for only a single point above the BSP.

I had several discussions now about why don't Night Beast gets his free focus when he had a stress token. Even in tourney scene he is played wrong. So much time wasted for explaining and convincing. And the respone I got is basically: "What the f...". It would be a HUGE improvement to just give him a focus token after a green move. Not only game-wise.

Winged Gundark is just a bad joke compared with Night beast.

So, both of them have deserved an improvement.

Do you have any predictions for Worlds?

They say a good theory is one that can predict things that are proved or discovered later ^^

Just the general ones about which ships should be generally well represented - the meta is still in flux.

Since this topic is up again, let me share my latest thoughts:

New alternative card text for Fel's Wrath:

"When the number of damage cards assigned to you equals or exceeds your hull value, immidiatly execute a [speed 1 left bank] or [speed 1 right bank] manouver, each ship you are touching is dealt 1 facup damage card."

Its a bit long, yes. Basically this would be a special one-time Oicunn-move. the range is not far, but a hit can be devastating. Beware, you can hit friendly ships as well.

Interesting idea, but I would rather keep him as close to the original as possible.

To me the change to the PS5 TIES is too much, they aren't supposed to work as well as their ps 6 counter parts and gain modified EPTs for only a single point above the BSP.

Both BS and DC gain better EPTS for 2 points more than the BSP and better EPTs than their ps 5 brethren. While I like the ideas behind them I don't agree with the changes.

First, thanks for the feedback!

The PS6 TIEs are still very strong compared to the PS5 TIEs, even with their house rule changes here to nudge the PS5's in the right direction. And the PS5's cost 1 more than the Black Squadron Pilot but lose the EPT, so one would certainly expect their ability to be worth paying for - it's not just a PS bid. If I back off the PS5 changes any, then we're back at their stock rules, which are not very good. Starkiller I think summarized it well:

I had several discussions now about why don't Night Beast gets his free focus when he had a stress token. Even in tourney scene he is played wrong. So much time wasted for explaining and convincing. And the respone I got is basically: "What the f...". It would be a HUGE improvement to just give him a focus token after a green move. Not only game-wise.

Winged Gundark is just a bad joke compared with Night beast.

So, both of them have deserved an improvement.

Replying to your named squint suggestions:

Fel's Wrath : remove the free focus.

A couple people have mentioned this, so I'll mark him as testing , with a comment about possibly removing the free focus token. I would like it to get playtested a few times first though.

Lorrir : either only reduce cost from 23 to 22, or remove stress mechanic.

Option 1: He costs the same as a PS6 RGP, is 1 PS lower, has no EPT, and his ability causes him to lose his action.

Option 2: He costs one more than a RGP, is 1 PS lower, has no EPT, and has a nice ability.

Those are both a hard sell. With option 1 he is certainly still not appealing. Option 2 isn't much better. His PS adjusted cost would be 2 higher, and he loses the EPT. That is placing a huge value on his ability. It's simply not justified.

Yum. That full one year of data. For those "not large enough sample size people".

Question of use:

What would you prefer to have as a cheap EPT carrier?

The Black for 14 + EPT cost?

or the Gamma for 18 + EPT cost?

(or even the existing Saber for 21+ EPT cost)

What lists would you have it in?

What else would you put on a Gamma? And what EPT would you be thinking?

Point: How much value and list building space does a Gamma with EPT create?

At this point I really want them to release some new Bombers. The uniques are pretty niche and I think it would be nice to have some higher skill generics.

Question of use:

What would you prefer to have as a cheap EPT carrier?

The Black for 14 + EPT cost?

or the Gamma for 18 + EPT cost?

(or even the existing Saber for 21+ EPT cost)

What lists would you have it in?

What else would you put on a Gamma? And what EPT would you be thinking?

Point: How much value and list building space does a Gamma with EPT create?

At this point I really want them to release some new Bombers. The uniques are pretty niche and I think it would be nice to have some higher skill generics.

For a cheap EPT carrier, Black Squadron Pilot can't be beat. (14 points)

EPTs on PS4 Interceptors (20 points with these house rules) and PS4 Bombers (18 points) serve different purposes: PtL for surviving, and independent ordnance carriers respectively.

Edit: the point of an EPT on a Gamma, specifically, is to get PtL for TL+focus, or at least Predator for a reroll if you don't have Jonus around. It takes some risk out of the alpha strike.

Question of use:

What would you prefer to have as a cheap EPT carrier?

The Black for 14 + EPT cost?

or the Gamma for 18 + EPT cost?

(or even the existing Saber for 21+ EPT cost)

What lists would you have it in?

What else would you put on a Gamma? And what EPT would you be thinking?

Point: How much value and list building space does a Gamma with EPT create?

At this point I really want them to release some new Bombers. The uniques are pretty niche and I think it would be nice to have some higher skill generics.

For a cheap EPT carrier, Black Squadron Pilot can't be beat. (14 points)

EPTs on PS4 Interceptors (20 points with these house rules) and PS4 Bombers (18 points) serve different purposes: PtL for surviving, and independent ordnance carriers respectively.

Edit: the point of an EPT on a Gamma, specifically, is to get PtL for TL+focus, or at least Predator for a reroll if you don't have Jonus around. It takes some risk out of the alpha strike.

Point taken.

But in terms of balance testing you should also consider what other possibilities there are from opening up the build space.

The Gamma is a much tankier EPT carrier that can survive for far longer and also has access to ordnance for specific matchups to increase its own effectively (if you're going to take it).

I was hoping to ask the others around what they thought, in case you or I had missed an idea.

(Also, itd be lovely if one of the builders created an alternate version that could handle mods and house rules.... or even just your house rules, which are the most holistic.)

Inspired by this thread , I decided to make a change to R5-D8.

R5-D8

• Card text now reads: Once per turn, after you remove a stress token, you may discard 1 of your facedown Damage cards.

R5-D8 FAQ:

• If removing a stress causes multiple effects to trigger simultaneously (like triggering R5-D8 with Porkins' ability), then the player may chose which order to resolve the effects. Effects with the timing immediately must be resolved before R5-D8.

This makes R5-D8 the hull equivalent of R2-D2, with a few differences:

1. R5-D8 costs 3 vs R2-D2 costs 4.
2. R2-D2 can be useful as soon as the ship has lost a shield, whereas R5-D8 has to wait until the ship has lost a hull.
3. The triggering conditions are different: R2-D2 after executing a green maneuver, and R5-D8 after removing a stress.

Comments on each point:

1. Given that a Hull Upgrade costs 3 points and a Shield Upgrade costs 4 points, the 3 point cost for R5-D8 does not need to be changed.
2. This aspect makes R2-D2 superior to R5-D8, except for a few corner cases like with Jek Porkins.
3. As a general rule, R2-D2 is much easier to trigger, unless you build a squad and EPTs (like Wingman) around R5-D8, or have a corner case pilot like Porkins.

So, this is a very healthy upgrade for this card, but still leaves it generally inferior to R2-D2, even adjusted or its cost. However, R5-D8 becomes very good on Porkins, as it will allow him to remove stress 1 stress per turn with impunity. R5-D8 is Porkins' droid, so the intent was to make this card very good for him, and OK for everyone else.

Hey I was thinking that for kir kanos it is possible to take experimental interface and targeting computer for TL and evade. If you can fly him so he's not in combat by using more powerful threats he could be an interesting choice of an int without an ept. I'd reduce him down to 22 points though. Not sure if it's more interesting or fun. It might be.

Kir kanos at one more point more than a royal guard kind of invalidates taking one royal guard. The extra point for the ability is far too appealing of a choice that there isn't really a choice at all unless you literally can't fit one more point.

Also fels wrath is complicated and unnecessary I think. A strong point reduction might be fine. We played him in an online game and it was okay. Not bad for casual fun.

Hey I was thinking that for kir kanos it is possible to take experimental interface and targeting computer for TL and evade. If you can fly him so he's not in combat by using more powerful threats he could be an interesting choice of an int without an ept. I'd reduce him down to 22 points though. Not sure if it's more interesting or fun. It might be.

Kir kanos at one more point more than a royal guard kind of invalidates taking one royal guard. The extra point for the ability is far too appealing of a choice that there isn't really a choice at all unless you literally can't fit one more point.

Nice idea. But the card text on Targeting Computer does not read "Action: ..."

Also fels wrath is complicated and unnecessary I think. A strong point reduction might be fine. We played him in an online game and it was okay. Not bad for casual fun.

Another simple yet effective idea for Fel's Wrath:

Also fels wrath is complicated and unnecessary I think. A strong point reduction might be fine. We played him in an online game and it was okay. Not bad for casual fun.

Another simple yet effective idea for Fel's Wrath:

OK, so this is a good point. How much do you think Fel's Wrath's ability stock is worth, vs how much is the house rule version worth?

Giving him a free 2 point card via an ability would probably be spot-on with a cost reduction, but I hate to just replicate other card text when his is already so cool.

Also fels wrath is complicated and unnecessary I think. A strong point reduction might be fine. We played him in an online game and it was okay. Not bad for casual fun.

Another simple yet effective idea for Fel's Wrath:

OK, so this is a good point. How much do you think Fel's Wrath's ability stock is worth, vs how much is the house rule version worth?

Giving him a free 2 point card via an ability would probably be spot-on with a cost reduction, but I hate to just replicate other card text when his is already so cool.

How about this:

"If you are destroyed, the attacker rolls 3 attack dice and suffers all damage and critical damage rolled, if the attacker is in your arc."

Basically, if Fel's Wrath is killed, his killer suffers a prox mine hit if he is in Fel's arc.

Time to update a bunch of pilots I have had my eye on for a while.

X-wings get some major love, they will be good across the board. Everyone but Biggs gets a free Hull Upgrade -- on Biggs it costs 1 point, which is still easily worth it.

Kyle Katarn no longer loses his own focus token when he buffs a friendly nearby ship, and his cost is back to the stock 21 points.

The Outer Rim Smuggler can now be viable at 30 points with 3 attack, but it requires an ORS only title so you can't stack it with Millennium Falcon.

And the Imperial Bounty Hunter gets some love.

December 8, 2014

• Added: X-wing Hull Refit title card (+1 hull, costs 1 for Biggs, 0 for all others)
• Rookie Pilot : cost returned to 21
• Red Squadron Pilot : cost reduced from 23 to 22.5
• "Hobbie" Klivian : Cost reduced from 25 to 24
• Garven Dreis : gains the Elite Pilot Talent slot
• Wes Janson : Cost reduced from 29 to 28
• Lt. Blount : Cost reduced from 17 to 16
• Gemmer Sojan : Cost reduced from 22 to 21
• Tycho Celchu : Cost reduced from 26 to 24
• Outer Rim Smuggler : can take the Gun Runner title (+1 primary weapon value) for 3 points.
• Kyle Katarn pilot: cost returned to 21 points. Pilot ability now reads: " At the start of the Combat phase, you may assign 1 focus token to another friendly ship at range 1-3. "
• Bounty Hunter : Cost reduced from 33 to 31

X-wing commentary

For now, I have settled on how to balance the X-wings: a free Hull Refit, and some further minor point tweaking. I made the decision to make the Hull Refit cost +1 for Biggs, and 0 for all other pilots, To prevent Biggs, who is by far the best X-wing pilot, from being undercosted with this change. The conditional cost is unconventional, but since these are House Rules we can get away with it. You are of course free to use Biggs as before without the Hull Refit at 25 points, but you will probably want to spend the 1 point to give him the extra hull.

Here are the new MathWing numbers using the same method as in my MathWing thread.

A Hull Upgrade for 0 points as a title for X-Wings?? Thats HUGE!

Only if the Royal Guard title grants a 2 point discount on the second upgrade

A Hull Upgrade for 0 points as a title for X-Wings?? Thats HUGE!

Yup, I looked at it costing +1, and it wasn't enough of a buff.

Nice. I like the extra hull for the X-wing, looks like it would make it a good jouster, as it should be.

Personally I would have gone with it as an x-wing only modification, so that it would would maintain a little bit of decision-making (hull refit or engine upgrade?). But that might be a little harsh.

Nice. I like the extra hull for the X-wing, looks like it would make it a good jouster, as it should be.

Personally I would have gone with it as an x-wing only modification, so that it would would maintain a little bit of decision-making (hull refit or engine upgrade?). But that might be a little harsh.

Yeah I thought about that too, but then it would be sad to preclude Wedge from taking Engine Upgrade as well. How else could Wedge have saved Luke's bacon at Yavin?

So "Title" it is.

Nice. I like the extra hull for the X-wing, looks like it would make it a good jouster, as it should be.

Personally I would have gone with it as an x-wing only modification, so that it would would maintain a little bit of decision-making (hull refit or engine upgrade?). But that might be a little harsh.

Yeah I thought about that too, but then it would be sad to preclude Wedge from taking Engine Upgrade as well. How else could Wedge have saved Luke's bacon at Yavin?

So "Title" it is.

Yeah; it's a pretty close thing either way I think. I just really don't like auto-includes and that could be clouding my judgment a bit. Access to engine upgrade is really important these days, especially.

I also like the EPT on Garven. I think the designers were probably a little too stingy with the EPTs early-on. (case in point: Y-wings).

Also Arvel's fix looks good. It's a real shame that he's been so difficult to use well so far... A great fluffy ability largely wasted.

Yeah; it's a pretty close thing either way I think. I just really don't like auto-includes and that could be clouding my judgment a bit. Access to engine upgrade is really important these days, especially.

I also like the EPT on Garven. I think the designers were probably a little too stingy with the EPTs early-on. (case in point: Y-wings).

Also Arvel's fix looks good. It's a real shame that he's been so difficult to use well so far... A great fluffy ability largely wasted.

Well, don't think of it as auto-include, think of it as "what the X-wing should have been at launch".

And yeah, I think I actually prefer Arvel to Tycho with the House Rules, even after Tycho's 2 point cost reduction.

All we need now is a real fix for Proton Torpedoes and Concussion Missiles, and Y-wings and Bombers would be in business.

call me crazy, but would making them 5 dice be worth it? hahaha

All we need now is a real fix for Proton Torpedoes and Concussion Missiles, and Y-wings and Bombers would be in business.

If we're willing to make major changes to ordnance, how about for all torpedoes and missiles:

"On hit, defender takes 1 damage for each [hit] and one critical damage for each [crit]"

So if red dice beat green dice _at all_, the damage done becomes the total damage of the red dice, not the margin of dice difference.

I like the idea of this, as it makes ordinance fundamentally different from guns, and adds a nice damage buff for them. It might actually make some ordinance over powered, tbh.

But! Suddenly a Y-Wing can one shot a Tie Fighter. An A-Wing with Prockets can ruin a Tie Bomber's day. Hell, an A-Wing with a Procket can take out a cloaked Phantom, if the Phantom is unlucky...

A minor update, I reduced the cost of Weapons Engineer from 3 to 2 for non-Epic ships.

Weapons Engineer has been reduced from a cost of 3 to 2 for small and large base ships, because it does not generate the equivalent of one action per round. Weapons Engineer effectively has a 50% duty cycle, making its real value between 1.5 - 2 points. The cost has remained the same for Epic ships, which are able to fire multiple times in one round and therefore utilize all available Target Locks.

​Weapons Engineer

• Huge ship cost: 3
• Small and Large ship cost: reduced from 3 to 2

All we need now is a real fix for Proton Torpedoes and Concussion Missiles, and Y-wings and Bombers would be in business.

If we're willing to make major changes to ordnance, how about for all torpedoes and missiles:

"On hit, defender takes 1 damage for each [hit] and one critical damage for each [crit]"

So if red dice beat green dice _at all_, the damage done becomes the total damage of the red dice, not the margin of dice difference.

I like the idea of this, as it makes ordinance fundamentally different from guns, and adds a nice damage buff for them. It might actually make some ordinance over powered, tbh.

But! Suddenly a Y-Wing can one shot a Tie Fighter. An A-Wing with Prockets can ruin a Tie Bomber's day. Hell, an A-Wing with a Procket can take out a cloaked Phantom, if the Phantom is unlucky...

I really actually love this idea. Fluff wise a proton torpedo would absolute vaporize a Tie fighter if it landed home.