I am running a campaign in DH that has been going on ever since the first rulebook came out and I think it is by far the best role playing system I have ever had the pleasure to GM.

However I now have a bit of an issue.

One of the players in my campaign is playing a Cleric with a particular hatred of daemons. When the Inquisitor's Handbook came out he asked me if he could take the Adepta Sororitas talent "True Faith" as an Elite Advance. I said yes. My attitude is that the rulebooks are generally well balanced, and that the benefits of True Faith are easily outweighed by the fine line he would have to take.

Since then, the party has taken a decidedly radical turn when it comes to Xenos and tech-heresy. Specifically the party has used, or is actively using xenos weaponry, they have killed a rival inquisitor's acolyte in order to gain an Eldar farseer's trust, and the group contains two psykers, both of which have had some absolutely spectacularly ill-timed Perils of the Warp.

My thinking as a GM in the very harsh world of 40k and Dark Heresy, is that any cleric, let alone one with True Faith, should have some fairly massive problems with the above actions. The way I see it, either the Cleric would turn em in for heresy or give up True Faith and let their actions go unreported.

Any advice? The player in question can get quite a bit stubborn at times and I don't relish the idea of telling him that his uber-talent just ran headlong into the brick wall that is fluff and the rules.

Well, one of people's strongest attributes is the ability to rationalise unpalatable truths away. And the Imperial heirarchy is both spiritual and practical (often antithetical), so there's room there. The psykers are Sanctioned (presumably) so it's not his place to reason with the wisdom of his 'superiors' in Sanctioning such things. Perhaps he sees tech as a necessary evil (again Sanctioned), the ins and outs of which are beneath his spiritual notice. We know that a Shuriken Pistol (say) is an Eldar weapon and therefore xenos but would he? It might just be a peculiarly elegant pistol to his eyes (in a galaxy of strange looking tech), but so might a Best, artificer-crafted laspistol. If he likes his colleagues and thinks they're doing the Emperor's work, he literally won't see such things.

If he actually saw the xenos weapons in a context that made them unquestionably xenos, or was aware of the deal with the Farseer, then he'd have to kill the team; report the team to a higher authority and follow the advice of his (Sanctioned) 'betters'; use the opportunity to kill the Farseer etc - all of which would let him keep his True Faith (as long as he, personally still believed in the rightness of what was going on); would lose his True Faith if he acquiesced quietly (defo!); or there could be some convoluted RP, side-quest (so he's not aware of what the rest of the team's doing) or 'downtime', in which he's inducted into some of the mysteries of how the universe actually works (using one of the optional Cleric career paths or a Sister Dialogous as the template) which profoundly changes him (and costs a lot of xp in 'boring' things) but allows him to remain as a char, keep his True Faith, have creative RP fun (but he's out of this adventure for a while...).

EDIT: Or re-reading your post, his rationalisation engine could kick in (with his hatred of Daemons) that the Eldar are lesser enemies also embattled against the Greatest Enemy, which he has a particular hatred of, so it's all good (as long as he pledges to purge this lesser enemy once it's no longer useful - and attempts to). This is actually totally realistic but I'd expect your PC to come up with an IC tour de force for this.

It was drilled into my head early that the GM is GOD.

I suggest if he gets stubborn, remove the talent. Solves the problem of whether you think he's deserving of it anymore.

He has True Faith. This is not a flexible thing. His conviction in the teachings of the Emperor is so strong that it has granted him what could be seen as supernatural abilities. As soon as he suspects that his "comrades" have embarked down the path of Radicalism then it is his Emperor sworn duty to dispense punishment and redemption. He can lie to himself, pretend that his "friends" aren't filthy heretics, but then he'll have questioned his faith and his Faith based abilities will fail to work. The price of True Faith is not measured in XP, but in what you must do to keep your faith. His fellow acolytes have slain loyal servants of the Inquisition to get in the good books of a foul xeno psyker. They are heretics now and something must be done, unless the player wishes to loose access to his lovingly bought talent.

Heresy is a flexible thing, despite what the Inquisition would have anyone believe. As long as the Cleric can keep making the case to himself that everything his group is doing is for "The Greater Good", then he should be fine. There are as many ways to interpret The Creed as their are stars in the galaxy. And using xenotech is minor compared to some of the stuff he could be doing.

If he was a regular cleric then sure. But he's got True Faith. That's Adepta Sororitas level zeal and utterly uncompromising beliefs. There is a section accompanying that career which explains the trade off pure Pure Faith, that being that you hold yourself and others to a high standard and won't look the other way when people start to get a little loose with what's deemed unheretical. Whatever supposedly holy business they might be on the group has murdered loyal Imperial servants at the request of a xenos psyker. Saying "we needed to" is the same as trying to rationalise the use of heretek, or warp magic or other heretical tools. Consorting with aliens is, according to the Imperial Creed, heresy most foul. An entire Ordo of the Inquisition is dedicated to combating the alien. Even if it wasn't, "he could be worse" is not a good enough excuse for someone with True Faith.

The tricky part is that the faith talents only deal with the warp while the issues above seem to be xenos and no corruption points are involved so technically there would be no issue.

That being said the general fanatacism of the Soriatas in the class description as well as in the books, not to mention original Hereticus alliance, implies all heresies are to be stamped out and eradicated. Perhaps some visions or dreams to the player might show him the Emperor's displeasure with the cleric's meddling in blasphemous affairs.

I will also note that there are actually imperial-made shuriken weapons in the background, they simply aren't as good as eldar-made (imperial ones are based on magnetic accelerator principles, the eldar on grativic). That sort of thing immediately gives him an option to rationalise it away: "oh, those are just high-quality Imperial shuriken weapons, from a forge-world I've never heard of, and arcane runes that don't look like any human script I've ever seen- what wacky guys those techpriests are..."

That said, in his position, I'd have to go with either turning them in, sorrowfully, but with deadly force if need be; or ditching True Faith and playing along, although my view is that any pious character would have some serious soul-searching to do, and would probably spend much of his time trying to 'redeem' his errant friends.

There is a presumption in this thread that True Faith means rigidly holding to the present beliefs of the Ecclisiarchy, which is not necessarily the case. There have been, and continue to be, many interpretations of the Imperial Creed. The Battle Sisters tend to hold to a particularly restrictive and intolerant branch of the faith.

Since the Cleric in question is determined to destroy daemons, I could see rationalization that any tool that gets the job done (even a xeno one - though clearly not a Chaos tainted one) would be acceptable. Remember that many members of the Ecclisiarchy don't get along with the Adeptus Mechanicus - there is no particular reason why your daemon hating priest needs to care about tech heresies.

Now as to the psyker issue - they are sanctioned psykers, yes? I would think that a priest with True Faith who hated daemons would insist on regularly praying with the psykers, taking their confessions, regularly checking in on them with great solicitation... and the first to put them down, perhaps even with tears in his eyes, should they falter.

Before it could be decided as to whether the priests True Faith would be affected or not, you have to decide what the origin of the power of True Faith is. Is it a post-modern relativistic power that springs from the bearer based on their conviction in what-ever or is it the Emperor showing favor or being called upon by someone with enough conviction to get His attention and intervention?

If it's the former, then, as many said, if he can rationalize his actions to his faith, he's safe. Of course, that path can lead to many who aren't even allied with the Emperor having true faith -all they would need is a strong enough conviction in any crazy old thing. On the other hand, if it springs from the Emperor (or the mass belief in Him and what He is), then there is a very good chance that he would lose his true faith for any deviance from the strait and narrow. Finally, you could decide the Emperor moves in mysterious ways and what-not, but if that path is taken, then True Faith becomes a bit of a crap-shot -if the Emperor works in mysterious ways, he might not want those powers going off at the time you do, or want them going off when you don't, etc.

I'd lean slightly towards the relativistic interpretation - a Dialogous searching heretical and blasphemous texts to uncover evil, doesn't lose her True Faith if she doesn't immediately torch the library.

Would a top ranking Malleus Inquisitor with True Faith lose it when being invited to enter the Black Library by a Farseer?

The Imperium only functions and survives by its coughing and looking away from (necessary) heresy - techpriests and psykers - and yet, True Faith is possible even so....

I would say that True Faith is exactly that...You have to follow the Creed of the Ecclesiarchy with total conviction.

Obviously the Creed varies from world to world but broadly these tenets are always basically present

The Emperor is our Saviour and was raised to Godhood by sacrificing himself

Hate The Alien, the Heretic, the Mutant, the Witch and the Daemon

Do what your told

Obviously the exact wording, form of worship, ceremonies etc may be different or missing certain parts. I would get your Cleric to define his own basic tenets of the Imperial creed first and work back from there. Maybe the world he came from incorporated some alien loving into their culture, resulting in a different creed. So he'll be fine with working with these aliens but should it ever come up he'll have to defend those alien loving (heretical) beliefs with his life becuase he believes in them with true faith. Likewise if he follows the more traditional creed he will be forced to defend those beliefs with utter conviction or lose his faith in how the universe should be.

What form that defence is, depends on the character. Maybe a long sit down and talk with tea and biscuits, maybe a good shriving will drive out those spiritual impurities from his fellows, maybe they need to retreat to a monastery to atone for their transgressions, maybe he needs to refer the matter to other agencies to test for impure thoughts and corruption or maybe he just needs to get his holy hammer and slay them all!

True Faith is one of the few weapons puritans have that no radical can ever get. It does imply an unrelentingly moral position which will go against some of the more morally grey memebers of the team. To use the example above The Malleus Inquisitor would not lose true faith for being invited to enter the Black Library. However if he did enter he would have put the knowledge of a filthy xenos above his own True belief in the Emperor as Saviour and Guardian, losing it. Such is the price of knowledge.

Bear in mind if he gets more than 10 corruption points you lose the ability to use faith talents. I know my party has agained a few from just having one Psyker so i'd hate to imagine what having two is like

TS Luikart said:

BINGO! Don't forget that there is a different version of "The Emperor" on nearly every single planet. Just from reading a few novels I have seen the emperor as a sun god, a fertility god, and a couple other different supreme dieties. Remember as players wer know WAY more than a character. It could be that these actions do not conflict with HIS interpretation of the Emperor's mandate.

If you think of the wars of apostacy both sides could claim to be defending the "true faith" but they were killing imperial citizens left, right and center. WE know who was right and who was wrong but what the CHARACTERS know is totally different. We can't put our greater perspective into the judgement of a character's actions. They may truly believe they are doing "gods work". Now if he totally goes off the deep end, that would be something totally different.

Darkshroud said:

One of the advantages of True Faith is that you can say "no, I don't gain corruption" and spend a fate point. Those run out, of course, at which point you're best off executing the offending psyker as a moral threat.

TS Luikart said:

Perhaps, but True Faith, if it's not defined already like with the Sisters of Battle, *needs* to be defined well ahead of time, and then you need to hold the PC's feet to the fire to maintain it.

Otherwise what's the point? It's just twink munchkinism then, another kewl power that makes you better than the other PCs.

True Faith isn't something that "changes". Faith is belief without proof, even in the face of contrary evidence. What's going on right now is a crisis of the PC's faith, and should be a major crux of the character. Without a clear idea of the PC's "true faith", this is an unsolvable situation.

My suggestion is to go back and request that the player come up with a faith paradigm that fits with his character's behavior. All of it. Then apply it to this situation and see how s/he fares.

True Faith without a faith system laid out is like being a paladin in D&D but not being beholden to their moral code. What's the point?

Im of the opinion that the player, who seemed to get the ability on the basis that he acted very strictly within the tennants of the Imperial Creed should now lose this ability if he goes along with this (he should be reimbursed the xp).

I think people are looking at this from too much of an outsiders perspective. How would a relatively normal and pious Imperial Cleric react to those events? How would he feel if he went along with it? If he can rationalise this away does he really fit the bill for True Faith? Bearing in mind that consorting with Xenos is considered just a big a crime and danger to your soul in the Imperium as consorting with Heretics and Deamons then I do not think that a character who does this can be considered to have true faith. To be honest I think it is just as interesting as he still views himself as righteous but loses the ability actually demonstating the insideous nature of Xenos taint which is mentioned but rarely explored as much as chaos taint. The more the character rationalises his actions the more he damns himself.

Considering that this talent is normally only available to Sisters and the last paragraph of the Sisters introduction essentially forbids this type of behaviour I would either argue that they cant do it because they are too much like a sister in this regard or that they lose the talent because it should not be available to a character like him.

Kaihlik

Inform the twink that he's either got to act according to the imperial creed, or give up the True Faith. then, each time he does neither, have him make a WP roll to avoid an Insanity point, as he overrides his desires.

Or, have him encounter some genuine Sisters of Battle, and let the other party members escape... after being declared heretics! If he doesn't act...well, one IS judged by one's companions.