Some of you might recognize these terms from the Art of War. They actually don't describe the grounds themselves in a literal manner, but rather its effect on tactics and the behavior of your troops.

(Dispersive ground is actually home countryside, where desertion is common and supplies are easy.)

I was thinking about the fun I have with big Epic games. It really digs into the feeling of being a General on a big battle that has multiple theaters and important components.

Our playgroup likes to spread out and not just duke it out immediately by straight flying 300 pts vs 300 pts. We have some rather good arc dodgers and fancy flyers too. We also take AOE damage in our 300 lists and spread out a 24 rocks over 6x6 space (4 3x3 spaces). This creates arenas of combat and also spreads out the lists more to prevent being splashed to death.

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However, what do you think we could do to make for more map objectives and tactical positioning choices?

I understand already some basics on how to use asteroids, for instance, coming from within them at an enemy that has no cover and then forcing them to k-turn into our asteroid cover. This we could call some sort of strategic ground, but what else could we do that isn't silly.

(Making some space give you an extra attack die is rather dumb.)

Could we add more different types of obstacles?

Or space turrets?

Or ordnance refill stations?

High energy areas that bestow 1 shield?

Areas that give 1 extra evade dice? (dust?)

If we really think about it... old style combat actually did basically do that. Hills gave your archers +1 range, etc... Which, is in a way, kind of on the dumb side for this type of game.

What would you do or add for fun?

To an extent, open ground, difficult ground and hemmed-in ground are all created in the board via asteroid placement, creating channels where flight is easy and paths where it is harder.

Ultimately, the more asteroids (or debris) that you place, the more you create defined paths to which a squad must stick without taking unacceptable risks - hence, you create paths and intersections.

Note that you can 'control' ground either by having a ship there or by laying multiple fire arcs across it; ground may be empty but if it means being in a crossfire of three rebel heavy fighters, you're still gonna avoid it like the plague.

If I wanted something different, I'd suggest 'rubble' areas - some larger (much larger) markers which a less dramatic effect, which encourages people to consider flying through them. At the moment, terrain is something you can use to your advantage but it's out-and-out something you wish to avoid. Making it something you can fly through, and gain advantage from, changes the dynamic drastically.

idea: gives you an extra evade die for the cover (just like being on the far side of an obstacle) but doesn't cause damage. However, it ups the colour of manouvres by one (green - white, white - red). Alternatively you can use a manouvre at its normal colour and take the risk of damage normally.

So what ground is crossroad grounds?

Now I have read Sun-Tzu however his treatise was more on strategy and on real war where positioning and marching happens more than combat.

Now while X-wing can be called a strategic game it is more developed for tactical dogfighting. The ground in the Art of War is more aptly applied to campaign play with multiple factions with more than just 2 opposing players. Now the ground could be say matt conditions for a contested area such as no Asteroids or 10 obstacles at this battlefield.

Now I would like to see say a dice generator varying the amount of terrain such as 4 to 8 or empty space.

I still encourage people to read Sun-Tzu. He has taught lessons that are "brains" up in D.C. can't figure out (No one wins a protracted war) ,However that is a little off topic.

It's very obvious to me that the facing of how you relate to the asteroids does create all of these effects.

But could there be more?

Especially in a large map situation?

One thing that has no concept in xwing is hidden information. Everything is totally known in a game except for your maneuvers.

This does allow for some interesting surprise maneuvers and attacks but they're still limited to either good creation of theatrical zones or at the tactical (ship to ship) level.

In actual aerial combat a big part of combat was simply getting the surprise shot on them first or getting behind them. A forward flying assault was generally not a good idea as you'd typically be at equal likelihood to win.

This makes most xwing games where the players are at skill parity an exercise of facing each other.

That's why things like the thatch weave don't work very well. As the danger is what is facing ahead of you versus some tagging behind you. If they get behind you you probably have a skill difference.

Things like a nebula or gas cloud on a big map that essentially count you as cloaked or with a lot of evade could be fun (like the one the enterprise hides in in one star trek fim).

Equally dust/light debris clouds could reduce your evade and have the chance of causing damage, say on a red die a roll of a crit = 1 regular damage

If you could make a convincining enough large planet (perhaps just the edge on a big map) you could allow easier turns towards it as a 'gravity well'?

Things like a nebula or gas cloud on a big map that essentially count you as cloaked or with a lot of evade could be fun (like the one the enterprise hides in in one star trek fim).

Equally dust/light debris clouds could reduce your evade and have the chance of causing damage, say on a red die a roll of a crit = 1 regular damage

If you could make a convincining enough large planet (perhaps just the edge on a big map) you could allow easier turns towards it as a 'gravity well'?

Maybe, those sound macro-scalar, and fun. I've seen them used to great effect too.

Someone was talking about hiding ships behind certain large obstacles, like CD sized ones. I thought that would be utterly fun.

One thing that has no concept in xwing is hidden information. Everything is totally known in a game except for your maneuvers.

This does allow for some interesting surprise maneuvers and attacks but they're still limited to either good creation of theatrical zones or at the tactical (ship to ship) level.

In actual aerial combat a big part of combat was simply getting the surprise shot on them first or getting behind them. A forward flying assault was generally not a good idea as you'd typically be at equal likelihood to win.

This makes most xwing games where the players are at skill parity an exercise of facing each other.

That's why things like the thatch weave don't work very well. As the danger is what is facing ahead of you versus some tagging behind you. If they get behind you you probably have a skill difference.

Now if there was say a Bothan Spy which you may discard this card (many Bothans died to give us this information) the start of the Activation phase to look at any dial range 1-2 you may then change your dial for this ship. That could be cool for the whole mind game when it comes to maneuvers. (When is it a good time to burn my spy, which ship will my opponent spy on this turn, can I get him to peak at this Interceptor while I flank with the defender?) I have found that the best moves are not what gets you the best fire coverage or the most defense dice, but rather the maneuvers that your opponent doesn't expect which can catch or even force him/her out of position.

One thing that has no concept in xwing is hidden information. Everything is totally known in a game except for your maneuvers.

This does allow for some interesting surprise maneuvers and attacks but they're still limited to either good creation of theatrical zones or at the tactical (ship to ship) level.

In actual aerial combat a big part of combat was simply getting the surprise shot on them first or getting behind them. A forward flying assault was generally not a good idea as you'd typically be at equal likelihood to win.

This makes most xwing games where the players are at skill parity an exercise of facing each other.

That's why things like the thatch weave don't work very well. As the danger is what is facing ahead of you versus some tagging behind you. If they get behind you you probably have a skill difference.

I wouldn't say that there is no hidden information. The hidden movement is enough to add way more fog of war than any other table top game systems out there. Also the cloaking and decloaking mechanics do great for making you wonder where the Phantom would be coming from. Now there isn't much spying. Your intelligence agent can look at a dial up to range 2 but you can't really do much with that information as you can't change your dial. You may have more information to help you pick actions but other than that agent doesn't give you much.

Now if there was say a Bothan Spy which you may discard this card (many Bothans died to give us this information) the start of the Activation phase to look at any dial range 1-2 you may then change your dial for this ship. That could be cool for the whole mind game when it comes to maneuvers. (When is it a good time to burn my spy, which ship will my opponent spy on this turn, can I get him to peak at this Interceptor while I flank with the defender?) I have found that the best moves are not what gets you the best fire coverage or the most defense dice, but rather the maneuvers that your opponent doesn't expect which can catch or even force him/her out of position.

Haha. do explain all of that ^^ Sounds very promising!

I have a friend who utterly believes in not being predictable... which actually becomes predictable in a way. But I actually don't change my play at all, I simply usually choose the best choice or the safe choice and I tend to have way better shots on him for way less maneuvering weirdness. Now, I don't make any changes at all to my playstyle. Simply straightforward.

RodentMastermind came up with this a while back.. I think it is a pretty cool idea and touches on some of your ideas here.

http://nezumi.me.uk/Rebel_Scum/Celestial/Deal/Dealer.html

RodentMastermind came up with this a while back.. I think it is a pretty cool idea and touches on some of your ideas here.

http://nezumi.me.uk/Rebel_Scum/Celestial/Deal/Dealer.html

Speaking of which thought of a house rule for epic ships turning them into obstacles after they been destroyed. There is allot of talk about dropping debris cloud after a ship is destroyed and making it a rule. Now I don't see it with the small and large ships happening but definitely with the big ships. After an Epic ship has more damage cards than its hull or every section is crippled the ship is destroyed and roll one attack dice and consult the chart. The chart is composed of:

Dice result, Title(Narrative) Rules;

Blank, Drifting wreck; (silent and lifeless the abandoned ship passes aimlessly through the stars) Treat the ship as an obstacle. At the end of each activation phase move the ship 1 straight. If that movement causes it to overlap an obstacle or another ship refer to huge ship activation and overlapping. If another ships base overlaps with the base of the destroyed ship move the ship back as if overlapping the base of another ship, then treat the ship as overlapping an obstacle. Once any part of the destroyed ships base touches or passes the board edge remove the ship.

Focus; Disabled Ship (With life support failing, engines blown out, thrusters leaking and the hull nearly severed the ship is basically dead. Yet some how it moves with intent instead of drifting aimlessly. Maybe a trapped deck officer or an abandoned droid has found a way to regain control in a vain attempt to bring her to a place where she could be repaired.) Treat this as a drifting wreck with the difference is the owning player can choose between 1 straight or 1 bank in any direction at the end of the activation phase. If the movement causes it to overlap with an obstacle or another ship use the same effects for huge ship movement then roll again on this table and apply the new result to the destroyed ship.

Hit; Explosion (Whether the main reactor had a core breach or the Tibana Gas chambers caught on fire, a flash of light and a shower of debris is all that witnesses can tell you about the fate of that ship), Roll an attack die for each ship at range 1 and apply the results. Then take debris cloud tokens equal to the number of section cards the destroyed ship had or until there are no more debris clouds, and starting with the opposing player, place the debris cloud tokens any where they are touching the base of the destroyed ship. If there is no room due to obstacles or nearby ships then simply discard the debris cloud tokens. Then remove the destroyed ship.

Critical Hit; Chain Reaction, ("Only a Chain Reaction can destroy an object of this magnitude"), all ships at range 1-3 take 1 damage. Take a number of debris cloud tokens equal to the number of epic points the destroyed ship cost or until there are no more remaining debris clouds, and starting with the opposing player, place them within range 1 of the destroyed ships base. If there is no more room to place remaining debris clouds discard any remaining tokens. Then remove the destroyed ship

Write a scenario on Mission Control. If It's good, it will get noticed.

That program he wrote has many possibilities, and is customizable. It's very versatile. I thought it was a great tool last year when he did it.. I just haven't had much use to use it.. lol I just don't game as much as I want to.

I just scanned through the other posts quickly and may have missed somebody suggesting something similar already, but how about gas clouds? Anyone inside has their firing range reduced to range 2 with the target receiving a bonus defense die at range 2 and no bonus attack die for firing at a target at range 1.

I've been thinking of similar ideas. I'm currently amassing enough of a collection myself for a 1200pts vs 1200pts game on an 8'x8' table. Just going to run a straight up fight for the first match, but for future matches add flavor with ideas like mentioned here. I think it will be a blast! We want big games that will last through several sessions.

I'm really not fond of the fly 80000 ships at each other and watch them blow up mode hahaha. Sounds like British colonial era fighting tactics.

I really like having cool maps and flying around

I'm really not fond of the fly 80000 ships at each other and watch them blow up mode hahaha. Sounds like British colonial era fighting. I really like having cool maps and flying around

I know it could be a real cluster f***, but we have an idea to help relieve that issue. Each side has to split their list into 3 seperate groups, each group consisting of no less then 300 points. Each player then gets a long edge and up to range 1 to deploy one of their 3 groups, deploying as per standard rules. Before begining the 4th turn each player deploys a second group and the 3rd group deploys before starting the 8th round. This way each wave has 3 turns to thin numbers out before each consecutive wave enters the fight. I think this would add a cool dynamic to the game and help relieve space issues for movement at the same time. If it still ends up to congested then we will just add more rounds between waves.

I like it. But I think still more fun if you have a dynamic play field

I like it. But I think still more fun if you have a dynamic play field

Oh I agree. We are gonna start with just an open field to start and work out a good timing system for entering the separate waves based on the points being played. Once we get that worked out we will start entering the flavor to the play area. Baby steps.

I also like how the 3 separate attack waves will add a new strategy to the game as you will not know what the opponents waves will consist of until they are being deployed. Or you could make several smaller waves and deploy them every 2nd or 3rd round. So many options!