So let's get this straight where does it say a seperate item needs to be drawn?

A wrist mounted weapon is attached to your wrist in the same way your hand is attached to your wrist or a selonians tail is attached to his torso or claws are attached to your hand.

Again it's fine if you want to houserule the item into that If that works for your group but let's not pretend it's anything but a houserule. Wrist mounted weapons are never sheathed or holstered just like your fists aren't thus no draw required because the whole point of the attachment is that you have these constantly at the ready (which again is supported by exactly what the description says).

The filed front sight is different for a few reasons, first being that such a weapon is still holsters and the front sight allows for a quicker draw since it won't catch ergo it needs QuickDraw to represent this. Note how it's not already in hand from that mod.

I mean your logic would dictate that if a player is walking around a hallway holding their gun at the ready to shoot what's around the corner that they then need to spend an action to draw the weapon even though it's already drawn, that makes no sense. The wrist mounted weapon is no different, it sits on your wrist and fires from that exact point making it already drawn thus it doesn't need quick draw because it is, as the description says, always at the ready.

There's the flaw in your reasoning right at the start. You have made a supposition that Quick Draw is the only way to have your weapon at the ready at the start of a combat. This is not given anywhere in the rules and there is no reason to suppose that the only way of achieving this is through the Quick Draw talent any more than to suppose one must use the Utility Belt talent to produce a ration pack rather than having one through planning, or that one must have the Greased Palm talent in order to be allowed to bribe a PC.

Quick Draw allows a PC to draw a weapon as an incidental. Nowhere does it state that this is the only means by which a weapon can be pre-readied, nor does it state anywhere that an attack must be preceded by a Draw manoeuvre. Both of these are your invention and not RAW.

And I would agree with you except that there is already a precedent in the the RAW and that is the Filed Front Sight Mod that, as I have mentioned earlier, specifically grants this incidental readying of a weapon once the encounter has begun.

Again, these abilities are not the same. Filed Front Sight lets you ready a weapon as an Incidental. This is not the same as already having a weapon readied. Nor does it mean that Wrist Mounts have to specify if they have the Quick Draw talent because what Wrist Mounts do is not the same as the Quick Draw talent.

As for what happens before the encounter begins it's not an issue for me, if a Player says prior to the encounter that he has turned on or "drawn" his wrist mounted blasters then I'm good with that, just like I would be good with any Player saying they are readying whatever, but if they don't then they are required to follow the same rules as everyone else.

I don't think anyone has a problem with you ruling that way if you want, but the part about "follow the same rules as everyone else" is not backed up by RAW. You're making loads of assumptions and interpretations.

FG, I think the problem here is that you're wanting to apply a rule that doesn't need to be applied in this instance. When I think about what having blasters mounted on wrists might do, I think, "Well that means they're always at the ready, and you've still got a free hand if you want."

It seems to me to be like arguing that you have to spend a maneuver to stand up at the beginning of combat, because the rules don't say anything about starting combat standing up; therefore, you are not standing up until you take a maneuver to do so.

Think about these things, that is the only conclusion I can draw: wrist-mounts mean that your weapon is always good to go.

First, I'm enjoying this conversation and I do think you guys have good arguments, theres no anger or trolling going on from me I just have a different opinion

I don't believe I'm applying a rule where one doesn't exist because the assumption when you enter a combat encounter is that you are only as prepared as you have stated prior to the beginning of that encounter. If you haven't already prepared your weapon, or whatever, then you must do it during your Combat Turn which is essentially what the "Draw" Maneuver is. The only specified rule to avoid this cost is the Quick Draw ability. There are only a few ways so far to get this ability and that is buying the Talent or getting a Mod that give you this talent (the Filed Front Sight Mod has been my example). The two Mods we are discussing do not specifically state they give this ability in the mechanics of the Mod shown below they're descriptions. This is the basis of my argument. I believe you are reading past what is written by giving weapons mounted using these Mods an ability because the description implies it even though the rule mechanic doesn't actually specify it. I'm following the mechanic not the fluff.

As for having to spend a Maneuver to stand up at the beginning of combat, well, if you are sitting or lying down then yes you would have to spend the Maneuver.

FG, I think the problem here is that you're wanting to apply a rule that doesn't need to be applied in this instance. When I think about what having blasters mounted on wrists might do, I think, "Well that means they're always at the ready, and you've still got a free hand if you want."

It seems to me to be like arguing that you have to spend a maneuver to stand up at the beginning of combat, because the rules don't say anything about starting combat standing up; therefore, you are not standing up until you take a maneuver to do so.

Think about these things, that is the only conclusion I can draw: wrist-mounts mean that your weapon is always good to go.

First, I'm enjoying this conversation and I do think you guys have good arguments, theres no anger or trolling going on from me I just have a different opinion

I don't believe I'm applying a rule where one doesn't exist because the assumption when you enter a combat encounter is that you are only as prepared as you have stated prior to the beginning of that encounter. If you haven't already prepared your weapon, or whatever, then you must do it during your Combat Turn which is essentially what the "Draw" Maneuver is. The only specified rule to avoid this cost is the Quick Draw ability. There are only a few ways so far to get this ability and that is buying the Talent or getting a Mod that give you this talent (the Filed Front Sight Mod has been my example). The two Mods we are discussing do not specifically state they give this ability in the mechanics of the Mod shown below they're descriptions. This is the basis of my argument. I believe you are reading past what is written by giving weapons mounted using these Mods an ability because the description implies it even though the rule mechanic doesn't actually specify it. I'm following the mechanic not the fluff.

As for having to spend a Maneuver to stand up at the beginning of combat, well, if you are sitting or lying down then yes you would have to spend the Maneuver.

Agains your problem seems to be you think we are saying that wrist mounts give quick draw without saying that in the effects when NO ONE is saying that because your not drawing the weapons they are always at the ready exactly how the mod says they are. This is why it doesn't need to give them quick draw because they're always drawn.

except you already acknowledge that fists don't have to be drawn so clearly quick draw isn't the only way to have a weapon at the ready especially if that mods description specifically states that something is always at the ready. This isn't assuming it can be quick drawn it's saying it, like fists or a weapon someone already has in hand, doesn't need to be drawn because it's always drawn and can't be put away to where it would need to be drawn.

Agains your problem seems to be you think we are saying that wrist mounts give quick draw without saying that in the effects when NO ONE is saying that because your not drawing the weapons they are always at the ready exactly how the mod says they are. This is why it doesn't need to give them quick draw because they're always drawn.

Well, Fists and Feet and Tails don't have safeties either. The point though isn't that you have to draw (little d) wrist mounted weapons but that you must Draw (big D, the rule) so that they are ready to fire not that they are already out. What I'm arguing is that you must do something to prepare to use a weapon if you haven't already done so prior to entering Combat and that something is the Draw Maneuver, and unless a Mod specifically states you can forgo the Draw Maneuver then you must still spend a Maneuver to activate, draw, ready, whatever the weapon.

Anyway I think thats all I've got and I've got to go. Thanks all.

You have done something prior to combat, you've attached weapons to your wrists so you don't need to reach down to a holster, pull, and then lift the weapon. You've sacrificed two HP on the weapon in this process that could have been spent instead on making the gun more accurate, more damaging, crit easier, increased its range or a plethora of other things.

You saying you must do something before combat to prepare ignores all of this and also applies a rule that's not written anywhere in the book and outright contradicts what the mod litterally says, ie that it's "always at the ready". Why would that be in the description if it was never at the ready?

Adding the mod on is no different than a player deciding to pull their weapon and the just always hold onto it and never put it away. If a player enters combat with a gun already in their hand then they also would not have to draw it because it would already be there in their hand ready to go.

I mean you keep mentioning that it needs to say that it doesn't need to be readied and it does as I've quoted repeatedly.

AOR 215

Draw, holster, ready, or load a weapon. This maneuver covers the basic manipulations of most weapons, such as drawing a vibroknife from its sheath, recharging a blaster rifle's energy cells (provided the character has additional ammo at hand - see page 197), or drawing and prepping a thermal detonator for use.

DC 52

Corellian Arms model 2 wrist mount

Originally developed to allow species without opposable thumbs to use pistols, a wrist mount ensures that the user always has a weapon ready while keeping his hands free. Many users choose wrist mounts as a way to pack further firepower, while it is simply an aesthetic choice for some. Wrist-mounted weapons can be fired with a pressure-sensitive palm trigger, a particular wrist motion, or even by neural link. This attachment can be applied to any Ranged (Light) weapon.

Base Modifiers: The weapon can be worn on the user's wrist, allowing him to use his hands without interference.

Modification Options: None.

Hard points Required: 2

Cost: 275 credits.

------------------------------

The maneuver rules on AOR 215 are to draw, holster, ready, or load a weapon. The wrist mount attachment base modifiers on DC 52 (the actual rules for the attachment, not fluff) state that the weapon is worn on a wrist, so that hands can be used for other things. No where does the attachment state that the weapon by-passes the maneuver rule to ready a weapon. My reading of these rules is that a ready maneuver is still needed before a wrist mount gun can be fired.

First, I'm enjoying this conversation and I do think you guys have good arguments, theres no anger or trolling going on from me I just have a different opinion

AOR 215

Draw, holster, ready, or load a weapon. This maneuver covers the basic manipulations of most weapons, such as drawing a vibroknife from its sheath, recharging a blaster rifle's energy cells (provided the character has additional ammo at hand - see page 197), or drawing and prepping a thermal detonator for use.

DC 52

Corellian Arms model 2 wrist mount

Originally developed to allow species without opposable thumbs to use pistols, a wrist mount ensures that the user always has a weapon ready while keeping his hands free. Many users choose wrist mounts as a way to pack further firepower, while it is simply an aesthetic choice for some. Wrist-mounted weapons can be fired with a pressure-sensitive palm trigger, a particular wrist motion, or even by neural link. This attachment can be applied to any Ranged (Light) weapon.

Base Modifiers: The weapon can be worn on the user's wrist, allowing him to use his hands without interference.

Modification Options: None.

Hard points Required: 2

Cost: 275 credits.

------------------------------

The maneuver rules on AOR 215 are to draw, holster, ready, or load a weapon. The wrist mount attachment base modifiers on DC 52 (the actual rules for the attachment, not fluff) state that the weapon is worn on a wrist, so that hands can be used for other things. No where does the attachment state that the weapon by-passes the maneuver rule to ready a weapon. My reading of these rules is that a ready maneuver is still needed before a wrist mount gun can be fired.

Are you reloading it? No unless it runs out of ammo.

Are you holstering it? Again no it sticks to your wrist and thus needs no holster.

So all that would leave is readying it... But the mod litterally says word for word "...a user ALWAYS has a weapon READY". Those the key words that shows the ruling that they need to be drawn or readied aren't applicable by raw.

So what then are you doing that requires that manuever when nothing under those rules applies to this?

It seems to me to be like arguing that you have to spend a maneuver to stand up at the beginning of combat, because the rules don't say anything about starting combat standing up; therefore, you are not standing up until you take a maneuver to do so.

Think about these things, that is the only conclusion I can draw: wrist-mounts mean that your weapon is always good to go.

Nope. We're arguing that you have to spend a maneuver to stand up out of bed in the morning. After you spend that maneuver, you're still standing until you sit or go prone again.

It's the same for a wrist mounted weapon. If you spend a maneuver to ready it, it's good to go until you spend another maneuver to un-ready it. I don't care if you spend that maneuver when you wake up in the morning and put on the wrist mounted weapon, or when you think combat might be going down soon, or during an actual combat turn. At some point during the day, that maneuver must be spent to ready the weapon.

What I do care about is players walking around with loaded and ready weapons outside of combat. I'm advocating that walking around with a loaded gun at the ready is prone to accidents. There is a reason why guns have safeties. Which is why, at my table, dispair rolled by a character with a readied weapon could cause a readied gun to accidenetly fire. Dispair is a great way to simulate those accidents.

It seems to me to be like arguing that you have to spend a maneuver to stand up at the beginning of combat, because the rules don't say anything about starting combat standing up; therefore, you are not standing up until you take a maneuver to do so.

Think about these things, that is the only conclusion I can draw: wrist-mounts mean that your weapon is always good to go.

Nope. We're arguing that you have to spend a maneuver to stand up out of bed in the morning. After you spend that maneuver, you're still standing until you sit or go prone again.

It's the same for a wrist mounted weapon. If you spend a maneuver to ready it, it's good to go until you spend another maneuver to un-ready it. I don't care if you spend that maneuver when you wake up in the morning and put on the wrist mounted weapon, or when you think combat might be going down soon, or during an actual combat turn. At some point during the day, that maneuver must be spent to ready the weapon.

What I do care about is players walking around with loaded and ready weapons outside of combat. I'm advocating that walking around with a loaded gun at the ready is prone to accidents. There is a reason why guns have safeties. Which is why, at my table, dispair rolled by a character with a readied weapon could cause a readied gun to accidenetly fire. Dispair is a great way to simulate those accidents.

AOR 215

Draw, holster, ready, or load a weapon. This maneuver covers the basic manipulations of most weapons, such as drawing a vibroknife from its sheath, recharging a blaster rifle's energy cells (provided the character has additional ammo at hand - see page 197), or drawing and prepping a thermal detonator for use.

DC 52

Corellian Arms model 2 wrist mount

Originally developed to allow species without opposable thumbs to use pistols, a wrist mount ensures that the user always has a weapon ready while keeping his hands free. Many users choose wrist mounts as a way to pack further firepower, while it is simply an aesthetic choice for some. Wrist-mounted weapons can be fired with a pressure-sensitive palm trigger, a particular wrist motion, or even by neural link. This attachment can be applied to any Ranged (Light) weapon.

Base Modifiers: The weapon can be worn on the user's wrist, allowing him to use his hands without interference.

Modification Options: None.

Hard points Required: 2

Cost: 275 credits.

------------------------------

The maneuver rules on AOR 215 are to draw, holster, ready, or load a weapon. The wrist mount attachment base modifiers on DC 52 (the actual rules for the attachment, not fluff) state that the weapon is worn on a wrist, so that hands can be used for other things. No where does the attachment state that the weapon by-passes the maneuver rule to ready a weapon. My reading of these rules is that a ready maneuver is still needed before a wrist mount gun can be fired.

Are you drawing it? No it's on your wrist not in a holster.

Are you reloading it? No unless it runs out of ammo.

Are you holstering it? Again no it sticks to your wrist and thus needs no holster.

So all that would leave is readying it... But the mod litterally says word for word "...a user ALWAYS has a weapon READY". Those the key words that shows the ruling that they need to be drawn or readied aren't applicable by raw.

So what then are you doing that requires that manuever when nothing under those rules applies to this?

If you want to use fluff as inspiration for rules, and that makes the game more fun for you, then great.

There are plenty of places where the fluff doesn't match up 100% with the actual rules. Such as the E-11 blaster rifle. Do you run this weapon with limited ammo because the fluff states that the rifle "has a limited ammunition capacity (a rarity in blasters.)" while the gun only has Slow Firing 1?

Heck, I'm even fine with someone readying the weapon when they put it on in the morning. Which is why I think a Dispair or two would be adequate for having the weapon accidently fire if they player wants it to be always ready.

AOR 215 Draw, holster, ready, or load a weapon. This maneuver covers the basic manipulations of most weapons, such as drawing a vibroknife from its sheath, recharging a blaster rifle's energy cells (provided the character has additional ammo at hand - see page 197), or drawing and prepping a thermal detonator for use.

DC 52 Corellian Arms model 2 wrist mount

Originally developed to allow species without opposable thumbs to use pistols, a wrist mount ensures that the user always has a weapon ready while keeping his hands free. Many users choose wrist mounts as a way to pack further firepower, while it is simply an aesthetic choice for some. Wrist-mounted weapons can be fired with a pressure-sensitive palm trigger, a particular wrist motion, or even by neural link. This attachment can be applied to any Ranged (Light) weapon. Base Modifiers: The weapon can be worn on the user's wrist, allowing him to use his hands without interference. Modification Options: None. Hard points Required: 2 Cost: 275 credits.

------------------------------

The maneuver rules on AOR 215 are to draw, holster, ready, or load a weapon. The wrist mount attachment base modifiers on DC 52 (the actual rules for the attachment, not fluff) state that the weapon is worn on a wrist, so that hands can be used for other things. No where does the attachment state that the weapon by-passes the maneuver rule to ready a weapon. My reading of these rules is that a ready maneuver is still needed before a wrist mount gun can be fired.

Are you drawing it? No it's on your wrist not in a holster.

Are you reloading it? No unless it runs out of ammo.

Are you holstering it? Again no it sticks to your wrist and thus needs no holster.

So all that would leave is readying it... But the mod litterally says word for word "...a user ALWAYS has a weapon READY". Those the key words that shows the ruling that they need to be drawn or readied aren't applicable by raw.

So what then are you doing that requires that manuever when nothing under those rules applies to this?

If you want to use fluff as inspiration for rules, and that makes the game more fun for you, then great.

There are plenty of places where the fluff doesn't match up 100% with the actual rules. Such as the E-11 blaster rifle. Do you run this weapon with limited ammo because the fluff states that the rifle "has a limited ammunition capacity (a rarity in blasters.)" while the gun only has Slow Firing 1?

Heck, I'm even fine with someone readying the weapon when they put it on in the morning. Which is why I think a Dispair or two would be adequate for having the weapon accidently fire if they player wants it to be always ready.

As for the E-11 the limited ammo could be represented by the slow firing beig reloading or the GM taking that as a note to spend the players despairs more often on running out of ammo.

The effective readying would be putting the mount on, once it was on be weapon is literally in hand by being write on your wrist. Again your stance can just as easily be applied to fists because theres not been any distinguishing rule facts between them and the wrist mount beyond wearing the mount.

I mean by backpeddlng to just doing a manuever in the morning you're splitting hairs, if they're not wearing the mount (which may take some time to apply) then of course they can't fire it.

DC 52 Corellian Arms model 2 wrist mount

Base Modifiers: The weapon can be worn on the user's wrist, allowing him to use his hands without interference.

It's not fluff running the rules, it's what the entire purpose of the mod is. Saying that the description shouldn't matter means you should also not allow the players hands to be unoccupied because the only place it mentions that in is the descriton.

Please read the Base Modifiers again.

The point of the attachment as written is to have your hands free to do things other than holding a gun. The developers felt that this was worth two hard points.

DC 52 Corellian Arms model 2 wrist mount Base Modifiers: The weapon can be worn on the user's wrist, allowing him to use his hands without interference.

It's not fluff running the rules, it's what the entire purpose of the mod is. Saying that the description shouldn't matter means you should also not allow the players hands to be unoccupied because the only place it mentions that in is the descriton.

Please read the Base Modifiers again.

The point of the attachment as written is to have your hands free to do things other than holding a gun. The developers felt that this was worth two hard points.

Okay, let's talk about getting out of bed in the morning. This is like strapping on your wrist blasters. Once they are strapped on/locked in/mounted/however they are attached, they are good to go, up until you take them off or they somehow get disabled, just like you remain standing until you sit down or get knocked off your feet.

Like DBL says, we clearly have different ideas of when wrist blasters are readied. Has anyone submitted a rules question? Because I'm about to

DC 52 Corellian Arms model 2 wrist mount Base Modifiers: The weapon can be worn on the user's wrist, allowing him to use his hands without interference.

It's not fluff running the rules, it's what the entire purpose of the mod is. Saying that the description shouldn't matter means you should also not allow the players hands to be unoccupied because the only place it mentions that in is the descriton.

Please read the Base Modifiers again.

The point of the attachment as written is to have your hands free to do things other than holding a gun. The developers felt that this was worth two hard points.

ok so were just going to agree to disagree here because I don't feel completely disregarding the entire description is RAW, especially when you keep dodgin around drawing fists being no different.

What I was commenting on was you saying "you should also not allow the players hands to be unoccupied because the only place it mentions that in is the descriton". It mentions hands being unoccupied in the Base Modifiers.

Okay, let's talk about getting out of bed in the morning. This is like strapping on your wrist blasters. Once they are strapped on/locked in/mounted/however they are attached, they are good to go, up until you take them off or they somehow get disabled, just like you remain standing until you sit down or get knocked off your feet.[/size]

Like DBL says, we clearly have different ideas of when wrist blasters are readied. Has anyone submitted a rules question? Because I'm about to

DC 52 Corellian Arms model 2 wrist mount Base Modifiers: The weapon can be worn on the user's wrist, allowing him to use his hands without interference.

It's not fluff running the rules, it's what the entire purpose of the mod is. Saying that the description shouldn't matter means you should also not allow the players hands to be unoccupied because the only place it mentions that in is the descriton.

Please read the Base Modifiers again.

The point of the attachment as written is to have your hands free to do things other than holding a gun. The developers felt that this was worth two hard points.

ok so were just going to agree to disagree here because I don't feel completely disregarding the entire description is RAW, especially when you keep dodgin around drawing fists being no different.

What I was commenting on was you saying "you should also not allow the players hands to be unoccupied because the only place it mentions that in is the descriton". It mentions hands being unoccupied in the Base Modifiers.

Okay, let's talk about getting out of bed in the morning. This is like strapping on your wrist blasters. Once they are strapped on/locked in/mounted/however they are attached, they are good to go, up until you take them off or they somehow get disabled, just like you remain standing until you sit down or get knocked off your feet.

Like DBL says, we clearly have different ideas of when wrist blasters are readied. Has anyone submitted a rules question? Because I'm about to

I think this is the fundamental difference in our viewpoints. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You: The wrist blaster is always on your wrist and ready so you can always shoot it whenever you want.

Me: At some point a maneuver must be spent to ready a wrist blaster if you want to fire it.

Call it a house rule or use of existing Dispair rules, but I go on to add the following. If you leave the wrist blaster ready at all times, then be prepaired for it to accidently go off with dispairs during the day. So, I'd recommend spending a maneuver to turn it on and off if you don't want any accidents.

I'd be curious to see what a rules question would come up with. Great idea.

At the end of the day, I think this is one of those ones where there are so many different ways to play it and they are all the right way to play it. I'll admit that there is nothing in the rules that states that bad things happen if a wrist blaster is left ready all day. However, if a player stated that they had their gun at the ready (any gun, not just wrist blaster) while doing a coericion to get information, if they rolled a dispair I'd think about having the weapon fire.

Okay, let's talk about getting out of bed in the morning. This is like strapping on your wrist blasters. Once they are strapped on/locked in/mounted/however they are attached, they are good to go, up until you take them off or they somehow get disabled, just like you remain standing until you sit down or get knocked off your feet.[/size]

Like DBL says, we clearly have different ideas of when wrist blasters are readied. Has anyone submitted a rules question? Because I'm about to

I think this is the fundamental difference in our viewpoints. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You: The wrist blaster is always on your wrist and ready so you can always shoot it whenever you want.

Me: At some point a maneuver must be spent to ready a wrist blaster if you want to fire it.

Call it a house rule or use of existing Dispair rules, but I go on to add the following. If you leave the wrist blaster ready at all times, then be prepaired for it to accidently go off with dispairs during the day. So, I'd recommend spending a maneuver to turn it on and off if you don't want any accidents.

I'd be curious to see what a rules question would come up with. Great idea.

At the end of the day, I think this is one of those ones where there are so many different ways to play it and they are all the right way to play it. I'll admit that there is nothing in the rules that states that bad things happen if a wrist blaster is left ready all day. However, if a player stated that they had their gun at the ready (any gun, not just wrist blaster) while doing a coericion to get information, if they rolled a dispair I'd think about having the weapon fire.

It's not fluff running the rules, it's what the entire purpose of the mod is. Saying that the description shouldn't matter means you should also not allow the players hands to be unoccupied because the only place it mentions that in is the descriton. Let's not pretend the description bears no weight.

As for the E-11 the limited ammo could be represented by the slow firing beig reloading or the GM taking that as a note to spend the players despairs more often on running out of ammo.

The effective readying would be putting the mount on, once it was on be weapon is literally in hand by being write on your wrist. Again your stance can just as easily be applied to fists because theres not been any distinguishing rule facts between them and the wrist mount beyond wearing the mount.

I mean by backpeddlng to just doing a manuever in the morning you're splitting hairs, if they're not wearing the mount (which may take some time to apply) then of course they can't fire it.

To be fair to you, I'll address your other points from this post.

I agree that limited ammo is represented by slow firing. IMHO, a weapon on your wrist is ready to be used, as in you don't have to pull it out of your holster, not that it is ready by game terms. My reading of that fluff is like this, my mouse is at the ready to be used because it's on my desk, but I still have to act and move my hand away from the keyboard to actually use the mouse. Once my hand is on the mouse, it's ready to be used. The example isn't elegant, but I hope I get my point across that ready in the description can have a different connotation than the game rule "ready."

Interesting thing about fists that I just discovered, in AoR they are not a defined weapon. Or at least not on the weapons table. You have to look up the unarmed combat rules to find out that you can in fact punch someone. A person could extrapolate that since fists aren't on the weapon lists, and aren't classified as a weapon, then you don't need to ready them. Because the ready rules are for weapons.

I'm away from my book with the Selonian in it, so I'm not sure how the tail attack is worded. If it's "you can attack with the tail" then I'd think it'd be the same as fists. If the tail is called a weapon, then I'd think a maneuver would be needed to ready the tail to attack. (As goofy as that sounds, but to me that's the strict RAW.)

I don't feel like I'm back peddling on my stance that a maneuver would be needed to ready a wrist blaster. I feel like I'm extrapolating upon my opinion, or at least bringing up my thoughts upon my opinion. My opinion is that walking around with a weapon that's ready to fire is dangerous. Basic gun safety is that you should never point a gun at anything you don't want to kill. Walking around with a wrist blaster on all day will result in it being pointed at things you don't want to kill. If you have one that requires just a flick of the wrist to fire, then it could easily go off while driving. I'd even think that the neural ones could fire if you think the wrong thoughts. It's a sci/fi game, so it could work any way you want. But I'd be tempted to think that thoughts of "man, I just want to shoot this guy" while going through an interrogation could cause it to go off. Or a GM may want to fluff the filed off sight as the neural link.

I will fully admit that the differences in our opinion could come down to how much of a **** (or realist) your GM is. In this case, I'll say that I'm on the **** side of things. Where I think that there should be consequences to having a gun always ready to fire when you're not in combat. If I played in a game where the GM wanted to hand wave that danger by saying that sci/fi tech is good enough, then great.

I will also agree that a two hard point cost is quite steep for "only" having free hands while shooting a gun. At that cost, it would be fine for the weapon to effectively have quick draw, but it's not how I read the attachment. I read that the only benefit it gives is that your hands are free.

Actually, a great parallel to this issue is the shock gloves. These are another weapon that everyone assumes is always on. I think I'll be instituting my belief that a maneuver to ready is needed for these as well. Otherwise, you might just accidentally shock someone while shaking their hand.

This has been a great conversation. I hope we can get to the bottom of RAW and RAI for the wrist mounted blaster. To the OP and the dual wielding question, sorry this thread has been so derailed.

I sent in this question:

I understand what your all getting at here, when it comes to the wrist mounted, I reckon the only manoeuvre you should have to pull is aim, simple as that. So long as my players had stated before that the weapons were already on, otherwise a manouver to turn them on. Now to do with the selonians, from what I can see the usage of their tail is fairly instant, and can seemingly be used on whim, by spending an advantage in combat, you don't seem to have to ready your tail or spend any manouvers to get the tail ready. It seems like a free flow type of weapon, a second nature movement after hitting an enemy in combat to knock them off their feet.

To be fair to you, I'll address your other points from this post.

I agree that limited ammo is represented by slow firing. IMHO, a weapon on your wrist is ready to be used, as in you don't have to pull it out of your holster, not that it is ready by game terms. My reading of that fluff is like this, my mouse is at the ready to be used because it's on my desk, but I still have to act and move my hand away from the keyboard to actually use the mouse. Once my hand is on the mouse, it's ready to be used. The example isn't elegant, but I hope I get my point across that ready in the description can have a different connotation than the game rule "ready."

I understand that, but I still think that if this was the intent the description never would have noted that the weapon awlways at the ready, this makes it sound like it can be fired at a moments notice and surely it should be fired faster than another gun without quickdraw, because you don't need to reach down, undo a safety clip, grab the hilt, pull it out of the holster, raise it to firing level, undo the safety, and then fire.

You just need to piont and shoot. Now if there was a safety (and I'm still not convinced there is do to the way it's fired that seems a bit unneccessary as you're not going to program it to go off with simple guestures unless your mechanics an idiot) it still wouldn't come close to adding up to all the above as most safety's are a simple thumb flick (if even that) and not much more, and that's not even considering that this is hooked up to a possible nueral interface ie a mere thought would turn the safety on or off (This would also do away with, I think, accidental discharge). Note as well that under the managing gear maneuver every single action listed is speaking mostly about things that take longer than a simple thumb click or thought command:

"This maneuver covers the basic manipulations of most weapons..." (note the word most there, meaning the draw rule doesn't apply to all weapons, this is why I think common sense and the description suggest this isn't neccessary for wrist mounts) "..., such as drawing a vibroknife from it's sheath, recharing a blaster rifles energy cells, or drawing and prepping a thermal detonator for use."

It goes on to discuss drawing items from storage or putting them away (of course neither of which the wrist mount requires since it's stored exactly where it's fired from since it needn't be held).

Interesting thing about fists that I just discovered, in AoR they are not a defined weapon. Or at least not on the weapons table. You have to look up the unarmed combat rules to find out that you can in fact punch someone. A person could extrapolate that since fists aren't on the weapon lists, and aren't classified as a weapon, then you don't need to ready them. Because the ready rules are for weapons.

I'm away from my book with the Selonian in it, so I'm not sure how the tail attack is worded. If it's "you can attack with the tail" then I'd think it'd be the same as fists. If the tail is called a weapon, then I'd think a maneuver would be needed to ready the tail to attack. (As goofy as that sounds, but to me that's the strict RAW.)

Well I'm home now so I had some time to look through my book, and do to the forum we're in I'll stick to EOTE for sake of highest accuracy given this iteration of the forums.

While not listed as weapons I don't find that much of a intended variation to mak them escape the draw rule, rather I think the designers intended some common sense, ie if you have something at hand you can attack with it withuot spending that maneuver to get ready. It just doesn't seem to make much sense to shoehorn in a manuever action when you've got something litterally sitting there ready to be used. (so I'm eager to get that dev reply back assuming someone sent it in already).

I don't feel like I'm back peddling on my stance that a maneuver would be needed to ready a wrist blaster. I feel like I'm extrapolating upon my opinion, or at least bringing up my thoughts upon my opinion. My opinion is that walking around with a weapon that's ready to fire is dangerous. Basic gun safety is that you should never point a gun at anything you don't want to kill. Walking around with a wrist blaster on all day will result in it being pointed at things you don't want to kill. If you have one that requires just a flick of the wrist to fire, then it could easily go off while driving. I'd even think that the neural ones could fire if you think the wrong thoughts. It's a sci/fi game, so it could work any way you want. But I'd be tempted to think that thoughts of "man, I just want to shoot this guy" while going through an interrogation could cause it to go off. Or a GM may want to fluff the filed off sight as the neural link.

I will fully admit that the differences in our opinion could come down to how much of a **** (or realist) your GM is. In this case, I'll say that I'm on the **** side of things. Where I think that there should be consequences to having a gun always ready to fire when you're not in combat. If I played in a game where the GM wanted to hand wave that danger by saying that sci/fi tech is good enough, then great.

I will also agree that a two hard point cost is quite steep for "only" having free hands while shooting a gun. At that cost, it would be fine for the weapon to effectively have quick draw, but it's not how I read the attachment. I read that the only benefit it gives is that your hands are free.

Actually, a great parallel to this issue is the shock gloves. These are another weapon that everyone assumes is always on. I think I'll be instituting my belief that a maneuver to ready is needed for these as well. Otherwise, you might just accidentally shock someone while shaking their hand.

This has been a great conversation. I hope we can get to the bottom of RAW and RAI for the wrist mounted blaster. To the OP and the dual wielding question, sorry this thread has been so derailed.

I fully agree it's very dangerous, thus why I'd apply things like social set back dice, authorities veiwing them potentially as law breakers or with extra caution, etc.

As for basic gun safety you're right, but at the same time basic gun safety is discussing weapons in the real world with triggers not nueral itnerfaces and very specific hand geusters (since again I can't imagine you programming it to go off with any handgesture you might do in every day activites, though this would be a funny setting should the mechanic or person applying it roll a despaire when doing so). I maen if the weapon was that unpredictable I can't imagine it would ever get mass manufactored let alone used where it just had some random hair trigger where you had to walk around in combat worried it might go off at any second especially since you're mind and hands are going to be moving a lot more when you're in the middle of a fire fight and you need it to only go off when pointed in certain directions rather than down at your foot as you take cover, etc.

As for the shock gloves that's one I'm inclined to agree with, obviously they can't be on all the time and they make no mention of a nueral interface or hand gesture to activate, instead they just kinda state that they're on and touching them shocks you. However this is why I say that the description is important, it can tell you a lot (at least I think) about what the intent of the developers was when laying out the weapon.